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Any panel/paint Expert wanna be my MSN mentor?

Started by _Viper_ , Dec 17 2009 07:17 PM

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103 replies to this topic

#26 _Viper_

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 07:34 PM

Well I got the epoxy sussed, had to call PPG head office in East Aus to get the right Tech Data sheet, found I had the wrong hardener so went and changed that and all good.. And It doesnt say ive only got 6hrs to topcoat it either which is good...

2 questions.... Does phosphoric acid (DEOX) that you use to etch the panel before the epoxy effect bog at all? IE should I try avoid the filler when I prep the bare steel?

And I wanna give wet on wet a try (with the epoxy and hi-fill) It just says wait 30mins before topcoating... so is that all? just wait 30mins the spray it with the hi-fill? I dont have to do anything else special...

Oh ok I lied I got 3 questions... In the TDS for the epoxy it says use a 1.3mm or 1.5mm tip... I have both sizes so which one should I use and why?

Here's a few progress pics anyway.

Posted Image

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#27 _yldlj_

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 07:49 PM

not sure on the 1st question but if its just an etch primer it shouldnt harm the bog, 2nd question yes just wait 30mins then coat it with your hifill. 3rd i would use 1.5 it willl spray on a litlle bit ticker but everone has there own preferances.

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#28 _Viper_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 12:14 AM

Its a chemical etching agent you use before the Epoxy primer....

Oh other question was... when I do my blocking of the primer... Do I guidecoat and sand with say 400grit then re-guide then 800? Or go straight to 800? or maybe 4,6,800?

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#29 _Yella SLuR_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:16 AM

800, 360 if you need to cut through shitty bits or feather (this will take it back to metal fairly quick). Only one guide coat.

Weird looking Torana.

Edited by Yella SLuR, 23 December 2009 - 10:18 AM.

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#30 TerrA LX

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 01:02 PM

I never get bog wet with acid, acid is meant for bare metal only.

WOW 30min and no other prep if that's what they say.

Smaller tip if you are using it thin or larger tip for thicker application.

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#31 _yldlj_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

what i do is hifill it then block it back with 180 then hifill again block back with 320 then get the dynabrade to do the rest.guide coating before each time you use a different grit to make sure the panel will be straight. i wouldn't get the deox anywhere near the bog either. i would even mask the repaired area up to make sure.

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#32 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 07:24 PM

Oh other question was... when I do my blocking of the primer... Do I guidecoat and sand with say 400grit then re-guide then 800? Or go straight to 800? or maybe 4,6,800?

Personally i would go 400, re guide then 600, 800 isnt needed, but you can if you want.

Cheers.

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#33 _yldlj_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 07:44 PM

i wouldn't go 800 either. and i would dynabrade with a soft pad, 400 then 600.

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#34 TerrA LX

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 07:47 PM

Yeah, I think blocking back hi fill with 180 is a bit of a waste.

FYI you can guide coat bare metal and rub that with the 180 first to save your hi fill, then repair any highs or lows from there hi fill any repairs and the whole panel then using a large block for large areas 600 that, if you don't find much left behind to fill again just primer it, guide coat and then 800 in prep for colour is usually enough.

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#35 _yldlj_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 08:01 PM

your highs and lows should already be repaired and panel should be straight.i dont think bog should be rubbed out with anyting finer than 120 max because the paper heats up the matal.i finish bog with only 80 grit at work. blocking hifill with 180 makes it dead straight and once you have paint on the car you dont have all those ripples going down every panel and it makes sure you have got all the scratches out.especially if you are doing a bright colour because you will get sink back.this is what i would do anyway especially on a restoration. any other car i would only hifill once.

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#36 wot179

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 08:12 PM

Hey,Terry,come paint my wagon.

I have bourbon.......

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#37 _LH SLR 3300_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 08:13 PM

I used PPG products on my Torana repaint & they are very good quality. I followed the PPG paint reps advice & the technical data manual. I didn't use the epoxy etch primer you bought, but i used a PPG product called DP40 as an etch primer & for the areas i painted WOW. All bare metalled areas were treated with deoxidine 20mins or so before appying the etch primer & i kept the deoxidine well away from any body filler as has been mentioned. For panels with large repairs i applied the DP40 plus four coats of hi-fill. I guide coated then blocked them with 120 before repriming them. For panels that had minor repairs i applied the DP40 then four coats of hi-fill. I guide coated the whole car, then dry blocked with 240, re-guide coated & dry blocked with 320, re-guide coated & wet rubbed with 800 as my Torana was painted in a COB metallic. For solids the final rub can be with 600 instead of 800. The car came out pretty straight but i will be taking a slightly different approach with my next project. This Torana was done with a time frame in mind & i wouldn't say i rushed it but i didn't spend as much time on it as i would've liked. The whole car was repaired & repainted in & out in just under three months & there was alot of repairs needed to get it straight. My next project i will be spending more time to get it even better than this car.
Posted Image

Alot of people in the panel/paint trade have varied methods of achieving the same results & there will some who agree with my methods & others who don't but it sometimes helps to get different opinions & i'm only offering mine. Good luck with your project.

Cheers Matt

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#38 wot179

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 08:25 PM

That looks sweeet.Great colour.

OK,now that the crawling is done,are those big steelies on the back 14s?

Are they Torana pattern?

Do you want to sell them?

How much?

Cheers,Craig.

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#39 _LH SLR 3300_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 08:35 PM

The steelies on the back in the pics of the car when i bought it aren't mine. I literaly bought the car as a bare shell, i had to give the diff & x-member etc back to the original owner as they were only left on the car to get it towed to my house. Sorry. I do have a set of Torana pattern (HK-T-G) 14s but they aren't widened like the rims in my pics.

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#40 wot179

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 08:41 PM

Thanks mate.No harm in asking.

Back to on topic.
Sorry for the thread steal. Posted Image

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#41 _yldlj_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:24 PM

nice car mate it looks really straight, good for the time spent on it. i would always hifill twice the more blocking out the better. i have always blocked it out with 180 first then reapply and have had the best results. the way i have explained is from a spraypainter at my work and i have always followed his advice. as you say everyone has different ways of doing things.

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#42 _Viper_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:25 PM

So I should spray with hi-fill, Block it with 180 (wet or dry?) then give it more coats of hi-fill? (1,2,3,4?) then reblock up to 600 - 800? then spray the basecoat?

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#43 _yldlj_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:39 PM

i would use hifill 3 or 4 even coats, guide coat,block it with 180 dry,if there is any small dents showing and cant be blocked out put a little 2pac filler in it and rub back with 180. hifill again, guide coat, then i would use 320 but if it's to hard to rub back use 240 first then 320 (dry) then 400 then 600. you could wet rub the 600 but you dont have to. you could also 800 it but it depends on what colour it will be getting sprayed.also make sure the hifill is really dry i would be leaving it over night. try use a big block aswell as it will take alot less time and effort because blocking out the whole car isnt the nicest job to do!

Edited by yldlj, 23 December 2009 - 10:43 PM.

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#44 _Viper_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:48 PM

I didnt think there was a difference between acrylic bog and 2-pak? As its already a 2-part with a hardener???

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#45 _yldlj_

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:54 PM

yeah there is its alot finer and can be used on paint and primers. you wouldnt use normal filler to fill up your pin holes and small dents once primed you would use 2pac filler.well we call it 2pac filler its alot finer when rubbed down. its a polyester putty

Edited by yldlj, 23 December 2009 - 11:07 PM.

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#46 TerrA LX

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 10:33 AM

Yeah, I think blocking back hi fill with 180 is a bit of a waste.

Actually, use any grade paper that works for you, as stated and as you have probably found, 80 grit to start with on repairs etc so the paper don't heat up and clog, everything in between and finish off with 600 etc to remove fine scratches.

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#47 _Viper_

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 03:17 PM

Ok so I just sprayed one of the doors in hi-fill and then noticed abit of a depression in one corner that I missed and is going to need a little bit of bog... Now do I have to sand the area back to the epoxy primer? or can I just rough up the hifill with 36 grit and apply the filler over that?

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#48 _yldlj_

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 03:30 PM

dont use 36 on it! 180 it and dont go through the hifill theres no need to. then use polyester filler only dont use normal filler. let the filler get really dry and rub back with 80 then if you want to go over it with 120 you could. then hifill over