Nolethaine Bush Failure
#1 _Bomber Watson_
Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:38 PM
I have just nipped the bolts up, its not tightened anywhere near the crush tubes yet, Doesnt even have wheels, but the bushes have cracked and crumbled....
WTF????
Should i go get some more Nolethaine jobs or just put the perfectly fine rubber ones back in???
The lower bushes (down near the trans tunnel) are from the same set and seem fine, but i think i might replace these also...
Cheers.
#2 _SSbloke_
Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:58 PM
dont tell me they go brittle mine have been in the car for a few years(5yrs) and it hasnt been out of the shed i will have to keep an eye on them for the next couple of weeks. Do they have aproblem of goin brittle or is this the first time anyones heard of it?Hey guys put some Nolethaine x member to body bushes in the LJ last night, they had never been out of the packet, but had been sitting for a few years.
I have just nipped the bolts up, its not tightened anywhere near the crush tubes yet, Doesnt even have wheels, but the bushes have cracked and crumbled....
WTF????
Should i go get some more Nolethaine jobs or just put the perfectly fine rubber ones back in???
The lower bushes (down near the trans tunnel) are from the same set and seem fine, but i think i might replace these also...
Cheers.
#3 _robrenjus_
Posted 17 February 2010 - 08:01 PM
Edited by robrenjus, 17 February 2010 - 08:04 PM.
#4 _Bomber Watson_
Posted 17 February 2010 - 08:21 PM
The x member to body rubbers are the only ones that are Nolethaine on the front, everything else is genuine gmh rubber, i only went to stick them in there cause i figured i didnt want my x member moving around.
I was running rubber bushes for ages, never had a problem, and they still look perfect. Should i just put these back in with the Nolethaine bottom (trans tunnel) ones??? The rubber bottom ones were no good....Or should i just get new rubber bottom ones???
Cheers.
#5 _robrenjus_
Posted 17 February 2010 - 09:59 PM
i would probably use the rubber ones from the upper xmember to chassis mount and the nolathane ones on the lower mount and also the castor bar (because if there was going to be unwanted movement thats where it will be)I was running rubber bushes for ages, never had a problem, and they still look perfect. Should i just put these back in with the Nolethaine bottom (trans tunnel) ones??? The rubber bottom ones were no good....Or should i just get new rubber bottom ones???
Cheers.
#6
Posted 18 February 2010 - 08:08 AM
They were instaled in the car, the car sat in the garage for 5yrs, & they ALL crumbled!
I've done a bit of poly pouring. I understand that it is possible to get a bad batch, where the poly isn't mixed correctly with the hardner. But i doubt that the offending company makes a complete set of torana bushes from the same pour.
I put it down to a crap product! I wont buy them again!
#7
Posted 18 February 2010 - 08:23 AM
The only rubber left is the steering coupling and the crossmember to rail.
Whack the rubber ones back in dude, I dont think it will make much difference in terms of "movement" or hamper any performance, so if they are still in good knick, then it wont hurt to use em.
#8
Posted 18 February 2010 - 08:46 AM
I agree robrenjus, unfortunately in this instance the pack was more than likely a dud 1 off and a tad too hard. I was surprised to see this story, given the fact that the car has not been used for a while. I believe that polyurethane (nolathane as trade name) was originally developed and introduced as material that has superior wear resistance qualities and lower friction properties as compared to rubber. Polyurethane is a mixture of various chemical materials, poured into a mould and allowed to set. By adding extra materials in the mix the hardness can be manufactured/ tailored to suit the various customer applications, such as from highly flexible to very hard, depending on its use, but nearly always hardly ever wears. Great for rear suspension and shackle bolts for example (low friction, high wear resistance).g,day Bomber in my years as a suspension specialist i have seen this a few times .I am in the belief that it is a dud pack of bushes(its like they didnt put enough of something in the mould). i fitted a brand new set of nolathane brand bushes to castor bars on an old falcon and they crumbled to bits the very next day so we took them out and put another set in and they are still going to this day .They are getting hard to get but given the chance i would put rubber ones in mine if i could because nolathane ones are a little harsh and i suspect could lead to problems such as cracking or fatigue in the chassis and i dont think that handling is increased any great deal by using stiffer ones.
In SA in 1990 I pioneered the use of this stuff in a railway track application that required the use of polyurethane insulation plates installed into railway track plate connections and rail anchoring on the main freight line. These components have been exposed to a least 200+ million gross tonnes of pounding rail freight traffic since install, and not to mention the harsh environment it was exposed to (stinking hot and very cold), the components were removed during track upgrade recently and were found to be as good as the day they were originally installed and can be re-used.
I guess I'm trying to reassure Bomber and others of its use, the varying hardness available and its applications. I have nolathane bushes on the lower control arms of my LC only at this stage.
Hope this helps.
#9
Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:42 AM
I would also assume that the rail mob had their own receiving end QA?
#10 _robrenjus_
Posted 18 February 2010 - 12:55 PM
I've had a full set do EXACTLY the same thing.
They were instaled in the car, the car sat in the garage for 5yrs, & they ALL crumbled!
I've done a bit of poly pouring. I understand that it is possible to get a bad batch, where the poly isn't mixed correctly with the hardner. But i doubt that the offending company makes a complete set of torana bushes from the same pour.
I put it down to a crap product! I wont buy them again!
strange ,i have had nolathane in the front of my torry for 15 years ,drove it for 6 years then put it in storage for the last 9 and they are still soft as the day i fitted them. They are still in there now .
#11
Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:02 PM
I've had a full set do EXACTLY the same thing.
They were instaled in the car, the car sat in the garage for 5yrs, & they ALL crumbled!
I've done a bit of poly pouring. I understand that it is possible to get a bad batch, where the poly isn't mixed correctly with the hardner. But i doubt that the offending company makes a complete set of torana bushes from the same pour.
I put it down to a crap product! I wont buy them again!
^^^^^ I agree.
Had a few nolathaine bush crack & crumble. Will buy noltec or something else next time.
#12
Posted 18 February 2010 - 02:13 PM
Thanks TerraLX, very good points you raised.dudley, sounds like your rail application spent most of it's time in tension and not compression?
I would also assume that the rail mob had their own receiving end QA?
Yes, I think what I was trying to convey was that good quality nolathane should be able to endure the application in a Torry chassis mounting. I mean with the displaced weight of a LC/LJ Torry shared over the 4 chassis mounting points should be no more than say 300kg each just sitting in the shed, and say up to 600kg each under extreme or heavy cornering/driving ( I may be out a little on this but you get the idea).
From the the experiences I had in rail, the application was on trial at the time - going through the "type approval process". With no failures encountered and the 'no maintenance required' properties among the other QA tests over several years of the trial, the material was declared successful and is now used widespread. On the tension and compression point, I was highlighting the ability for the stuff to handle heavy weights and the constant pounding of freight trains over a small surface area without distorting the material with up to 25 tonnes per axle passing over it, and the rail movement (track stresses) in changing temperatures as the rail expanded and contracted, the components were always under some tension when there were no trains (the plates I mentioned are mounted under the rail joints as well as the side of the rail and so supporting the full weight of passing trains). A Torry weight shared at each mounting is therefore approximately 1/50th of the weight of a railway carriage's single axle. From my experiences with the stuff I believe it should handle this application in the Torry with ease.
Therefore I was surprised to find that for a car just sitting there for several years and no stress placed on the mountings (engine or no engine or no driving) and finding that the things have deteriorated in such a way, that it seems that a little too much hardener may have went in to the batch. Theres a guy here in Adelaide that makes anything in nolathane to the customers requirements/applications so long as you have a good part to make a good mould to work with. Making the mould is the most expensive exercise in the deal. The $64 question is - are they imported or made locally??
#13
Posted 18 February 2010 - 05:37 PM
#14 _ass308_
Posted 18 February 2010 - 05:43 PM
then i was advised they were crap
i spent a lot of money putting rubber bushes back in.
rubber bushes rule in my opinion........unless u have a race car
#15
Posted 18 February 2010 - 06:19 PM
#16 _Bomber Watson_
Posted 18 February 2010 - 06:33 PM
I have used Noltec in cars before with no dramas, this is my first experience wtih this brand.
And yes, they sat on the shelf for about five years and i only put them in the car about two hours before those picks were taken. As i said the bolts wernt even tight and the x member was still supported by a jack, they were only compressed slightly.
Cheers.
#17
Posted 18 February 2010 - 06:42 PM
Edited by Toranavista, 18 February 2010 - 06:43 PM.
#18 _Bomber Watson_
Posted 18 February 2010 - 06:50 PM
Cheers.
#19
Posted 18 February 2010 - 07:12 PM
#20 _Bomber Watson_
Posted 18 February 2010 - 07:25 PM
#21 _robrenjus_
Posted 19 February 2010 - 06:30 AM
#22 _blownlcgtr_
Posted 19 February 2010 - 05:16 PM
#23 _Torrie_Man_
Posted 27 February 2010 - 05:26 PM
#24 _ass308_
Posted 27 February 2010 - 05:47 PM
its the only product they have that i would put on my car.
#25 _glenn l_
Posted 10 April 2010 - 01:58 PM
polyurethane buggers up in humid areas even if the bushes have been in the packet on the shelf, NT is real bad for it. polyurethane is a good bush if it is installed corectly (all mating surfaces clean and the right amount of greese). we have found super pro to be the best poly on the market, noletec doesnt exist any more it was bought out by red ranger(nolathane), pedders poly and nolathane are the exact same bush just different packaging and most of the time a little bit to hard, whiteline is also owned by red ranger now, there bushes seem ok but i find the outer shells seem to be to thin only making fitment a little harder. uv doesnt realy damage the bush but if left in the sun it will turn a blackish color. hope this helps.
glenn.
i rebuilt my wholw front end with noltec or superpro (blue ones). Drove it for a few years and then its been parked for even longer. Found the lower control arm bushes just fell to bits... very dissapointed... Any one know a good rubber brand of bushes?? Im not a big Kelpro rubber fan either.
torry man, as ass308 said the pedders rubber bushes are good i think the best on the market, but they only have frt upr and lwr ctrl arm bushes and rr upr and lwr trailing arm bushes in rubber, everything else is poly. also noletec are a light blue, superpro are a dark blue/purpulish color.
glenn.
Edited by glenn l, 10 April 2010 - 02:00 PM.
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