I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are about how much, or what parts of a car can be replaced and the car should still be regarded/sold as the same car.
Say i have a genuine xu1 and i replace the drivers door or gaurd, the car is still a genuine xu1 ?, but then i need to replace a roof panel , and then later a rear quarter and so on and so on, so over the years the whole car, including the floor could get replaced bit by bit, changing what part/s apart from the tags or at what stage would the car become something else other than the same car ?
I dont really have a strong opinion on this either way,and i dont think anyone will be rushing to check authenticity of my 4dr UC, so ill never have to worry (lol) but just interested.
MT
new torana shells
Started by
_blownlcgtr_
, Apr 30 2010 11:29 PM
72 replies to this topic
#52
_niterida_
_niterida_
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Posted 11 June 2010 - 03:02 PM
As soon as you replace a single part it is no longer original - Simple :-)
Original - "exacxtly how it came out of the factory with no changes" - consumables excluded - brake pads, oil, water etc)
Restored - "Has had parts changed but still the original identifiable parts" - eg chassis number, engine number.
Modified - "has had parts changed that appear different to original" - different heads, wheels, diffs etc.
As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter whether it is an original, modified or a copy. They are all exactly the same really - the only difference being who built it.
I really think people get too hung up on originality - really why is an A9X worth $100k and an LX sedan with exactly the same parts worth only $10k - they are for all intents and purposes exactly the same.
Originality and exorbitant prices should only come into when it has some sort of historical value eg; last one of its kind, race or championship winner, dingo eating baby on board etc.
Original - "exacxtly how it came out of the factory with no changes" - consumables excluded - brake pads, oil, water etc)
Restored - "Has had parts changed but still the original identifiable parts" - eg chassis number, engine number.
Modified - "has had parts changed that appear different to original" - different heads, wheels, diffs etc.
As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter whether it is an original, modified or a copy. They are all exactly the same really - the only difference being who built it.
I really think people get too hung up on originality - really why is an A9X worth $100k and an LX sedan with exactly the same parts worth only $10k - they are for all intents and purposes exactly the same.
Originality and exorbitant prices should only come into when it has some sort of historical value eg; last one of its kind, race or championship winner, dingo eating baby on board etc.
#53
_niterida_
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Posted 11 June 2010 - 03:07 PM
These new bodies should have a body number stamped into them in the same place as the originals. This body number should be unique and identify it as an aftermarket body.
Sure unscrupulous people could cut out an old body number and weld it in place but they could do that with any body shell. And it can always be detected if they are trying to pass it off as a genuine.
I don't have a problem with them being produced - in fact I think there should be more of them. I would love to build a car from scratch with a brand new body, especially an LX Hatch..................
Sure unscrupulous people could cut out an old body number and weld it in place but they could do that with any body shell. And it can always be detected if they are trying to pass it off as a genuine.
I don't have a problem with them being produced - in fact I think there should be more of them. I would love to build a car from scratch with a brand new body, especially an LX Hatch..................
#54
orangeLJ
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Posted 11 June 2010 - 03:27 PM
I wouldnt mind a torana body that I could mount onto a custom corvette chassis 
#55
Bart
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Posted 11 June 2010 - 07:36 PM
Corvette chassis is too long and too wide but i like your thinkingI wouldnt mind a torana body that I could mount onto a custom corvette chassis
I was thinking of using alloy Corvette suspension sytem but the arms are a bit long, it would mount too far inboard. Better option would be BMW alloy suspension i think, the arms are shorter, if your into the alloy stuff.
I digress.
But then if you buy one of these shells you prob would go to orignal spec anyway, like pressed steel suspension arms etc
Alloy suspension or tubular suspension arms and coil overs etc etc
Now im dreaming
#56
dattoman
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Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:49 PM
Clearly they will be easy to tell the difference between a new shell and an original car
Original car comes with factory rust
Come on guys... if your laying out 100k on a car without checking it properly your a boob anyway and deserve to be rolled
But even if you are... well theres always a recourse for a fraud charge if the cars passed off as something its not
I've seen the Dynacorn Camaros... they are great... but you can pick the difference
So don't panic
Your working yourselves up about ntohing
Be more upset about the reputed company(s) making replacement tags... not the parts/shells
Remember...$20k is alot to pay for a shell anyway... that could be deterant enough for scumbags
You still need the rest of the goodies to complete it anyway
Original car comes with factory rust
Come on guys... if your laying out 100k on a car without checking it properly your a boob anyway and deserve to be rolled
But even if you are... well theres always a recourse for a fraud charge if the cars passed off as something its not
I've seen the Dynacorn Camaros... they are great... but you can pick the difference
So don't panic
Your working yourselves up about ntohing
Be more upset about the reputed company(s) making replacement tags... not the parts/shells
Remember...$20k is alot to pay for a shell anyway... that could be deterant enough for scumbags
You still need the rest of the goodies to complete it anyway
#57
Bart
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Posted 11 June 2010 - 09:34 PM
A boob, lol, thats one way to put itClearly they will be easy to tell the difference between a new shell and an original car
Original car comes with factory rust
Come on guys... if your laying out 100k on a car without checking it properly your a boob anyway and deserve to be rolled
But even if you are... well theres always a recourse for a fraud charge if the cars passed off as something its not
I've seen the Dynacorn Camaros... they are great... but you can pick the difference
So don't panic
Your working yourselves up about ntohing
Be more upset about the reputed company(s) making replacement tags... not the parts/shells
Remember...$20k is alot to pay for a shell anyway... that could be deterant enough for scumbags
You still need the rest of the goodies to complete it anyway
I reckon its good news, cant wait to see a new shell, i just wish i had the balls and cash to do this myself.
#58
_A9XONE_
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Posted 12 June 2010 - 02:59 PM
Holden LJ Torana NEW front lhs guard suit GTR XU1
Check this out! Perfect BRAND NEW reproduction passenger side front guard to suit LJ Torana GTR and GTR XU-1 coupe, will also fit S coupe, S and SL sedan, 6 cylinder only.
These guards are a perfect undetectable copy of the original Holden unobtainable units, using original materials and correct moulded shape, 3 vertical vents aft of the wheel arch opening, as per original.
The perfect finishing touch for your Torana restoration, keep as a spare, or replace your rusty original guards. Available left and right hand side, LC and LJ varieties. See other listings for details. Taking advance orders now for late May delivery. Hurry! Almost all of 1st shipment have been presold!!
Suit the fussiest Holden parts buyer. You will be blown away with the quality and fit. [b]100% money back guarantee if you're not absolutely delighted!
Here are some of our other LC/LJ BRAND NEW reproductions parts available, many are IN STOCK for immediate delivery, or not far away, contact us for more information:
Nosecone sections, front stone tray, rear beaver panels, door stainless moulds (as fitted to GTR and XU-1), left and right sill panels, taillight panels, bonnets suit 6 cyl, boot lids, door shells, door skins, front and rear bars, grilles LC and LJ, dash pads, arm rests, headlining, and much much more. Ask for details and see our other listings. Jeff (0403) 59 1133
COMPLETE BRAND NEW LC LJ COUPE SHELLS ARRIVING SOON!!!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A MISSPRINT!!
http://cgi.ebay.com....=item4cefbc4535
Cheers
A9XONE
Check this out! Perfect BRAND NEW reproduction passenger side front guard to suit LJ Torana GTR and GTR XU-1 coupe, will also fit S coupe, S and SL sedan, 6 cylinder only.
These guards are a perfect undetectable copy of the original Holden unobtainable units, using original materials and correct moulded shape, 3 vertical vents aft of the wheel arch opening, as per original.
The perfect finishing touch for your Torana restoration, keep as a spare, or replace your rusty original guards. Available left and right hand side, LC and LJ varieties. See other listings for details. Taking advance orders now for late May delivery. Hurry! Almost all of 1st shipment have been presold!!
Suit the fussiest Holden parts buyer. You will be blown away with the quality and fit. [b]100% money back guarantee if you're not absolutely delighted!
Here are some of our other LC/LJ BRAND NEW reproductions parts available, many are IN STOCK for immediate delivery, or not far away, contact us for more information:
Nosecone sections, front stone tray, rear beaver panels, door stainless moulds (as fitted to GTR and XU-1), left and right sill panels, taillight panels, bonnets suit 6 cyl, boot lids, door shells, door skins, front and rear bars, grilles LC and LJ, dash pads, arm rests, headlining, and much much more. Ask for details and see our other listings. Jeff (0403) 59 1133
COMPLETE BRAND NEW LC LJ COUPE SHELLS ARRIVING SOON!!!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A MISSPRINT!!
http://cgi.ebay.com....=item4cefbc4535
Cheers
A9XONE
#59
_BATHURST-32D_
_BATHURST-32D_
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Posted 12 June 2010 - 05:25 PM
and thay all are a perfect fit, i have just finished fitting the new sills, guards and nosecone, you will not pick the diffrence between these or nos ones, just remember, i can do you all a better deal than you will get anywhere else.
hk gts guards and bonnet retail for 1,299.00 each i can get you these for 1k each you pay post.
cheers gong.
hk gts guards and bonnet retail for 1,299.00 each i can get you these for 1k each you pay post.
cheers gong.
Edited by BATHURST-32D, 12 June 2010 - 05:27 PM.
#60
Bart
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Posted 12 June 2010 - 07:06 PM
Awesome, good to see you made it to the forum Jeff.
#61
_Eedman_
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Posted 24 July 2010 - 10:28 PM
cool that means original 4 doors will go up in price i reckon.
#62
_Mike73_
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Posted 26 September 2010 - 06:53 PM
Hi Guys,
I think we may all have missed the point, that is our laws on this point are out of date just like hundreds of other laws to do with education, transport, water to mention a few.
Horses still have rights over cars in some states, even when the riders are to stupid to realise if they venture onto a road they might get hit!
Since cars were first made at the turn of the last century new replacement boddies have been fitted, so why doesn't the law reflect this, maybe its like prostitution in most states they know it happens and the girls even pay tax, except it happens to be illegal!
I have a 1924 Buick here that I have to build up from parts as the original was dismantled many years ago, actually it was probably government laws that made it get changed from a tourer to a ute at the time of the second world war so the owner could get petrol rations for a commercial vehicle.
I have found a spare body and will be fitting this to complete the vehicle, now I know what you are going to say, but these are probably not a rare model, well there are probably less than 50 probably in the world, I recon that makes them RARE!
Surely no one is going to say when I get it finished that it is not original and can't be licenced!
As Toranas get older their status will change somewhat and having a replacement body will carry less weight, so it is just the here and now we are talking about and it is about time we had laws that reflect out passions, like one reader put it we just need a seperate body identification to stop the fradsters ripping people off by paying more than something is worth.
The other thing of course is that only so many genuine XU-1 carbies and blocks etc will be around this will limit reboddies somewhat as fakers anyway.
I recon it is great that new bodies are going to be made, these will have to be far safer than cut and shut examples that now take up space on our roads now, and genuine originals won't have to be used in Historic racing reducing their numbers when accidents happen.
As far as crash safety, like was mentioned the earlier ones had less resistance to collaplse anyway and Holden were making them stronger as they realised their weak points, I recon even the strengthened 73 bodies need a bit more body ridgidity anyway as body flex seems to have remained a problem through production.
Holden only had imperial metal thicknesses to deal with and while they probably wanted to increase the thicknesses they did not have any in between sized to choose from, since the common use of metric materials these days slightly thicker metals are easy to incorperate into new parts.
Tooling to use the thicker sheets would probably be another issue as the originals may not have been able to cope with thicker steel anyway.
I can't wait for new chassis rails to become available to replace the rusted out one on one of my LJ's
Mike
I think we may all have missed the point, that is our laws on this point are out of date just like hundreds of other laws to do with education, transport, water to mention a few.
Horses still have rights over cars in some states, even when the riders are to stupid to realise if they venture onto a road they might get hit!
Since cars were first made at the turn of the last century new replacement boddies have been fitted, so why doesn't the law reflect this, maybe its like prostitution in most states they know it happens and the girls even pay tax, except it happens to be illegal!
I have a 1924 Buick here that I have to build up from parts as the original was dismantled many years ago, actually it was probably government laws that made it get changed from a tourer to a ute at the time of the second world war so the owner could get petrol rations for a commercial vehicle.
I have found a spare body and will be fitting this to complete the vehicle, now I know what you are going to say, but these are probably not a rare model, well there are probably less than 50 probably in the world, I recon that makes them RARE!
Surely no one is going to say when I get it finished that it is not original and can't be licenced!
As Toranas get older their status will change somewhat and having a replacement body will carry less weight, so it is just the here and now we are talking about and it is about time we had laws that reflect out passions, like one reader put it we just need a seperate body identification to stop the fradsters ripping people off by paying more than something is worth.
The other thing of course is that only so many genuine XU-1 carbies and blocks etc will be around this will limit reboddies somewhat as fakers anyway.
I recon it is great that new bodies are going to be made, these will have to be far safer than cut and shut examples that now take up space on our roads now, and genuine originals won't have to be used in Historic racing reducing their numbers when accidents happen.
As far as crash safety, like was mentioned the earlier ones had less resistance to collaplse anyway and Holden were making them stronger as they realised their weak points, I recon even the strengthened 73 bodies need a bit more body ridgidity anyway as body flex seems to have remained a problem through production.
Holden only had imperial metal thicknesses to deal with and while they probably wanted to increase the thicknesses they did not have any in between sized to choose from, since the common use of metric materials these days slightly thicker metals are easy to incorperate into new parts.
Tooling to use the thicker sheets would probably be another issue as the originals may not have been able to cope with thicker steel anyway.
I can't wait for new chassis rails to become available to replace the rusted out one on one of my LJ's
Mike
#63
_threeblindmice_
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Posted 26 September 2010 - 07:59 PM
Hi Guys,
I think we may all have missed the point,
Surely no one is going to say when I get it finished that it is not original and can't be licenced!
Mike
I will say it's not original , with all the different parts you have had to find to complete it , it may be a great job ,and a credit to you , and back on the road ,but an original car is just that ,original ! , That is why they command the best price , it depends on what you are comparing it with ,it may have the correct parts , that does not make it original , there are plenty of good original cars from the past ,with a history ,and still in the same family in my local area ,and my historical car club has plenty of cars in it that contain there original parts and panels . I agree new parts are very handy to get cars back on the road , but lets not pretend they are original examples.
#64
_Mike73_
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Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:11 PM
I have two Toranas ( three actually ) the GTR I am trying my hardest to keep original, but at times when another part is required I only use original parts that are date matched.
I often at shows have people come up to me and say when are youu going to restore it, they have no Idea how much effort I have made to make any changes blend in, perhaps this means I have done a good job ( any parts I remove I also mark for future reference )
It is rather frustrating not to have my efforts acnowledged, but I have seen original 1924 and 1925 Buicks and these are rather secial because they are original, so I can draw parallels and won't give in. ( I'm keeping it original )
Thats one story and my XU-1 is quite another as it definately needs a complete rebuild so I will not be quite as concerned about leaving original paint etc on.
I do also have the correct date glass but I do not know how to remove scratches, maybe I will start a topic on this.
I have no chance of making my XU-1 original as I firmly believe that original is original, not a brand new car with correct period parts.
MY XU-1 was started to be modified even before it left the factory in Adelaide because it was a Police patrol car, and by the stage it was two years old it had been written off, sold, rebuilt, sold agian and modified both mechanically and paint wise.
Most of the pannels on the drivers side had been renewed then.
By 1986 it had been painted two different additional colours at different stages and completely vandalised stripped and rebuilt, the front passengers side guard was replaced then too.
So most of the original panels were replaced years ago before I owned it, so these new panels will be very welcome to put it back together, especialy as it is the earliest Bath 73 found so far and its existance has re written XU-1 history!
Mike
I often at shows have people come up to me and say when are youu going to restore it, they have no Idea how much effort I have made to make any changes blend in, perhaps this means I have done a good job ( any parts I remove I also mark for future reference )
It is rather frustrating not to have my efforts acnowledged, but I have seen original 1924 and 1925 Buicks and these are rather secial because they are original, so I can draw parallels and won't give in. ( I'm keeping it original )
Thats one story and my XU-1 is quite another as it definately needs a complete rebuild so I will not be quite as concerned about leaving original paint etc on.
I do also have the correct date glass but I do not know how to remove scratches, maybe I will start a topic on this.
I have no chance of making my XU-1 original as I firmly believe that original is original, not a brand new car with correct period parts.
MY XU-1 was started to be modified even before it left the factory in Adelaide because it was a Police patrol car, and by the stage it was two years old it had been written off, sold, rebuilt, sold agian and modified both mechanically and paint wise.
Most of the pannels on the drivers side had been renewed then.
By 1986 it had been painted two different additional colours at different stages and completely vandalised stripped and rebuilt, the front passengers side guard was replaced then too.
So most of the original panels were replaced years ago before I owned it, so these new panels will be very welcome to put it back together, especialy as it is the earliest Bath 73 found so far and its existance has re written XU-1 history!
Mike
#65
_BATHURST-32D_
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Posted 27 September 2010 - 05:33 PM
just for the records the shells want be sold in this country as a complete unit, thay will be put together in this country once the panels arrive
blindy,, lets see an untouch original car in all its glory,, there is not one alive, once we start changing spark plugs, leads ,lights, widows,tyres,points, wiper blades, the car then becomes un original,,, well that is to the perdantic car collector,,, at the end of the day we can get as close as posiable and try how best with what we have,, but i for one could not give a fk for what someone does or dont have that is original,,, but there is no doubt i could sit there and pic problems with those cars that people think are exsact spot on.
NO HARM MENT JUST DROPING OFF MY 2 CENTS.
cheers gong
blindy,, lets see an untouch original car in all its glory,, there is not one alive, once we start changing spark plugs, leads ,lights, widows,tyres,points, wiper blades, the car then becomes un original,,, well that is to the perdantic car collector,,, at the end of the day we can get as close as posiable and try how best with what we have,, but i for one could not give a fk for what someone does or dont have that is original,,, but there is no doubt i could sit there and pic problems with those cars that people think are exsact spot on.
NO HARM MENT JUST DROPING OFF MY 2 CENTS.
cheers gong
#66
71xu1
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Dave
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Posted 27 September 2010 - 10:11 PM
Just ask the Ford boys if GT that has been rebodied is original. They will tell you like myself it's a Falcon with GT bits on it. Why the Ford boys they have been down this path/discussion many years ago.
Cheers Dave
Cheers Dave
#67
_bushi_
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Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:06 PM
My father had a friend with a lj xu1 that was is a big smash in the late 70's, and got a new body from holden and where the chassis numbers should be it was all blank to allow you too put your own old numbers back on.
Back then, like now if you had VE GTS or something similar and got a new body it wouldn't matter only in about 20-30 yrs.
I like the idea of new bodies and parts, for the ppl with alot of $$$ that want all new stuff from China with the 70's style and no headaches, like they do in USA with the retro remakes at least they still make the all the running gear there, where here this will never be done!
At the end of the day, if your an XU1 person you should be able to pick out a new body from a almost 40 yrs old body.
Value is up to the eye of the beholder! There enough resources out around now to work out whats what!
Back then, like now if you had VE GTS or something similar and got a new body it wouldn't matter only in about 20-30 yrs.
I like the idea of new bodies and parts, for the ppl with alot of $$$ that want all new stuff from China with the 70's style and no headaches, like they do in USA with the retro remakes at least they still make the all the running gear there, where here this will never be done!
At the end of the day, if your an XU1 person you should be able to pick out a new body from a almost 40 yrs old body.
Value is up to the eye of the beholder! There enough resources out around now to work out whats what!
#68
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:05 PM
Some info about the shells
HK HT HG Monaro and Torana LC LJ new body shells will be being made for resale late this year. Details as they become available. Watch this space
Price will be around $17 - $19K with doors and bootlid, made by Dynacorn/New Old Car Company
That was over 2 years ago now. Clearly it isn't going to happen.
#69
Bart
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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:24 PM
Funny that
That was over 2 years ago now. Clearly it isn't going to happen.
#70
_mustard XU1_
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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:05 AM
read this article with mixed thoughts, I agree with most that if you own a genuine vehicle (like I do) this should be illegal, but as Im doing a ground up restoration and seeing my car come back from the blasters to find where its been repaired over the years you start to think hey this isn't so bad after all, for me if rear wheel wells were available and maybe rear quarters that would suffice, if they make a full body shell then the parts I want would be available, It would make life easier at the end of the day.
#71
madtoranajzedded
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Sir ask alot
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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:46 PM
Funny that
nearly another year past,whats happening
#72
xu2308
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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:42 PM
Don't think they are going to happen, they would be here by now.
AL
#73
_torana man_
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Posted 10 March 2015 - 05:33 PM
Any news on the reproduction shells?
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