Yes Lee, it's a bit of a job : )
The owner is going to paint it himself, so I don't have to worry about painting this car either.......WOOHOOOO!!!!!!!! : )
Body resto on rusty 1969 Camaro
Started by
_dirtbag_
, Jun 22 2010 05:28 PM
324 replies to this topic
#77
_honda400_
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:49 PM
Yes Lee, it's a bit of a job : )
The owner is going to paint it himself, so I don't have to worry about painting this car either.......WOOHOOOO!!!!!!!! : )
That's right, I Think you already mentioned that.
#78
_Kush_
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:06 PM
You should stick with muscle cars, Tim. Hot rods are for old dudes with really bad hair and Elvis sunnies. By the way, what does the term "hotrod" mean? What rod are the talking about and why is it hot?? Also, what on earth is a "rat-rod" ?
Edited by Kush, 12 July 2010 - 08:07 PM.
#79
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:31 PM
A rat rod is the definition of awesomeness...
When done properly.
Cheers.
When done properly.
Cheers.
#80
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:35 PM
A ratrod is basically based on an early 50's hot rod, but someone decided it needed a different name. Then all the total shitboxes started showing up full of rust, and chopped and channelled to absolute uselessness.
Just my opinion : )
Just my opinion : )
#81
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:40 PM
Dirtbag, is a rat rod one of those rusty, dirty looking hotrods? Does anyone know why a hot rod is called that?
#82
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:50 PM
Hey Kush. Bomber is right, if it's done right they look insanely good, but the theme has mutated into the rusty shitbox things that are chopped so much you can't even sit in it anymore.
As far as I know the term hot rod has been around since at least the late 20s early 30s when they first started getting built. Back then though it was mainly fairly standard cars, but with as much stuff stripped off them as possible - interiors, guards, running boards etc. I'm not actually sure why they're called "rods" though. I guess someone said it and it stuck?
As for rat rods, I feel a proper rat rod (not that I particularly like to use that term, as it's an early 50's based look, so I think "traditional" is a better term) doesn't have to have rust and dents on it, it just needs to be simple, have an awesome stance and NO BILLET CRAP ANYWHERE!!!!!!! : )
Nowadays though there's a lot of room for interpretation so it can mean a different thing to different people. I guess that's what makes it so interesting.
So if anyone has an early 40s or late 30s truck cab and doors for sale, give me a call : )
As far as I know the term hot rod has been around since at least the late 20s early 30s when they first started getting built. Back then though it was mainly fairly standard cars, but with as much stuff stripped off them as possible - interiors, guards, running boards etc. I'm not actually sure why they're called "rods" though. I guess someone said it and it stuck?
As for rat rods, I feel a proper rat rod (not that I particularly like to use that term, as it's an early 50's based look, so I think "traditional" is a better term) doesn't have to have rust and dents on it, it just needs to be simple, have an awesome stance and NO BILLET CRAP ANYWHERE!!!!!!! : )
Nowadays though there's a lot of room for interpretation so it can mean a different thing to different people. I guess that's what makes it so interesting.
So if anyone has an early 40s or late 30s truck cab and doors for sale, give me a call : )
Edited by dirtbag, 12 July 2010 - 09:50 PM.
#83
_Kush_
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:55 PM
Thanks mate, I also checked out wikipedia ( marvelous invention, that). Have a read, it's interesting.
#84
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 10:17 PM
This is my idea of a very good rat.
Owned by a local bloke, have been out to his place a few times. All built in his shed and cost him less than $10k. He drives it all around Australia.
Now has a Cummins supercharger on it
Cheers.
Owned by a local bloke, have been out to his place a few times. All built in his shed and cost him less than $10k. He drives it all around Australia.
Now has a Cummins supercharger on it
Cheers.
#85
_dirtbag_
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 02:09 AM
Yeah, that's cool Bomber. The 6 banger really suits it too. Plus, I don't mind a bit of patina like that 
I just noticed the new addition to your sig - hahahah : )
I just noticed the new addition to your sig - hahahah : )
#86
_dirtbag_
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 02:19 AM
This is one of my all time favourite rods. It has fallen under the rat rod title, but this thing just sits so perfect, has 450+hp through a 4 speed. I WANT IT!!!!!!
A guy I used to work with at Central Park Street Rods built this thing a few years ago. One of my favourite local rods.
A guy I used to work with at Central Park Street Rods built this thing a few years ago. One of my favourite local rods.
#87
_AD_75_
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:26 PM
Maybe this camaro qualifies as a rat rod then..seeing as it had a few rat nests in it?..
er..okay moving along then..
Please continue on oh metal master! we're not worthy we're not worthy!
er..okay moving along then.. Please continue on oh metal master! we're not worthy we're not worthy!
#88
_dirtbag_
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 06:08 PM
Did a little bit more today.
Next step was to fix the end of the sill, where it meets the wheel tub.
Here's the piece I made to fix the inner sill. It's got a return on it so the new piece of tub that covers it can get plug welded to it. It's important to tie all these pieces together, or there's no combined strength.
And here it is welded in and rust converted.
Here's the new piece of wheel tub I made welded into place. You can see the dots around the bottom of the piece where it's plug welded to the first piece I made and fitted.
Here's the new tub piece trimmed to shape. That's it for this part now.
Next step is to get the new outer tub to fit properly. It's not too bad, but not quite right. I mucked around with the lip for a while to try and get it to sit better, then drilled a heap of holes for plug welding.
I'm so sick of drilling holes. I need to get one of those pneumatic hole punch jobbies : )
Then I ran out of day, so that's all folks...
Next step was to fix the end of the sill, where it meets the wheel tub.
Here's the piece I made to fix the inner sill. It's got a return on it so the new piece of tub that covers it can get plug welded to it. It's important to tie all these pieces together, or there's no combined strength.
And here it is welded in and rust converted.
Here's the new piece of wheel tub I made welded into place. You can see the dots around the bottom of the piece where it's plug welded to the first piece I made and fitted.
Here's the new tub piece trimmed to shape. That's it for this part now.
Next step is to get the new outer tub to fit properly. It's not too bad, but not quite right. I mucked around with the lip for a while to try and get it to sit better, then drilled a heap of holes for plug welding.
I'm so sick of drilling holes. I need to get one of those pneumatic hole punch jobbies : )
Then I ran out of day, so that's all folks...
#89
GML-31
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:34 PM
you getting soft, surely you can work all night as well.... looking good
#90
Bart
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:53 PM
Nice wheel tub, is that a Dynacorn item?
#91
_dirtbag_
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:59 PM
Can't say for sure, but the place all these panels came from usually deal with Classic Industres, so they'd be my first guess. They're well priced too. Much cheaper than stuff for Aussie cars.
#92
_nzstato_
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 12:52 PM
You do some impressive work Dirtbag. When you clean and etch with the phosphoric acid do you have to wash it off prior to priming? Any particular brand you stand by or do you buy in bulk and dilute? Dilute with water/alcohol?
#93
Bart
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 02:26 PM
I remember seeing an Austin Healy in England being acid dipped, then to prevent bare metal (from the acid dip) in the inner panel from rusting, the whole shell was galvanized dipped.
I wonder if this service is available in Aus and if this is any good?
I wonder if this service is available in Aus and if this is any good?
#94
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:19 PM
Hi Sam. The rust converter I use is "Plus" brand. I've been using it for years and never had any dramas with it. I don't dilute it at all, I just brush it on straight from the bottle.
All I have to do once the metalwork is finished is paint the converter on, let it dry (overnight usually), give it a quick rub with some 120/180 dry paper to get any crusties off then etch prime straight over it. I just don't see how rust converter that needs to be washed off with water can be a good idea. It sounds like an oxymoron : )
Bart, one of my friends had the doors and guards from his RX4 (stupid ass rotaries) galvanized years ago. Cost a little bit, but seems like a good idea. You used to be able to buy mini mokes galvanised from new apparently. Not sure why it's not more common. Must be really dear now.
Would be funny to just leave the whole car in the gal finish : )
All I have to do once the metalwork is finished is paint the converter on, let it dry (overnight usually), give it a quick rub with some 120/180 dry paper to get any crusties off then etch prime straight over it. I just don't see how rust converter that needs to be washed off with water can be a good idea. It sounds like an oxymoron : )
Bart, one of my friends had the doors and guards from his RX4 (stupid ass rotaries) galvanized years ago. Cost a little bit, but seems like a good idea. You used to be able to buy mini mokes galvanised from new apparently. Not sure why it's not more common. Must be really dear now.
Would be funny to just leave the whole car in the gal finish : )
#95
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:59 PM
Gal is a bitch to get paint to stick to.
Trust me, i do it on a daily basis....
Thats probably most of the reason.
Cheers.
Trust me, i do it on a daily basis....
Thats probably most of the reason.
Cheers.
#96
_nzstato_
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:02 PM
Thanks dirtbag, yea you're right about the water, silly me 
.
I imagine they did it with Mini mokes since any car used in britain wont make it past 10 years since they rust like buggery from the salted roads. The later model lotus use to galv their frams (since the 70s) and pretty much none of the earlier ones survive because they just rusted out. Check out some of the car resto sites from the uk, there's guys there doing MAJOR rust repair on stuff from the 90s. Sills, floorpans the lot...
.I imagine they did it with Mini mokes since any car used in britain wont make it past 10 years since they rust like buggery from the salted roads. The later model lotus use to galv their frams (since the 70s) and pretty much none of the earlier ones survive because they just rusted out. Check out some of the car resto sites from the uk, there's guys there doing MAJOR rust repair on stuff from the 90s. Sills, floorpans the lot...
#97
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:41 PM
Well got another step closer to turning this into a steel car.
I got the outer tub all welded in, which is nice : ) I also sanded all the black primer off the tub as I don't trust it. I like the etch I use to that's what I want as the base.
I then got the new outer sill sanded down and drilled all the holes for plug welding along the lower lip and in the wheel arch.
I ran a full butt weld along the top of where the sill joins into the door jam. Not the funnest of jobs, but it all turned out well. I still need to remake the front section of the inner sill where the bottom of the front guard mounts, as it was stuffed so I cut it all off : )
Here's the lip with all the plug welds in it. This is now 3 layers like original, but now it's actually all steel!!!! WOW : )
Here's where the outer sill joins into the new outer tub and the new lower section of the inner tub I made.
I thought that because I wont be getting back onto this after today until next week that I should throw some etch on it to seal it all up while it's nice and fresh.
It's actually starting to look like something worth fixing now. OK, it was always worth fixing. It's a 69 camaro!!!!!!
Next I thought I'd tackle the panel that is meant to go behind the inner tub. It was a piece of old tin rivetted on before, so I don't think I'll have too much trouble improving on that : ) First step was to cut the rest of the remaining piece off.
Then I had to straighten out all the edges, particularly the lower rearmost edge. It was covered in black gunk and bog. Yummy : )
Once that was done I took some basic measurements and cut out a piece of sheetmetal.
To start the basic shape I need I put a 20mm fold into the top of the piece. This will be where it mounts to the underside of the boot floor.
Then I cut out a section to the shape of the wheel tub and hand shaped a curved lip to join to the wheel tub.
You can see here the fold doesn't really follow the shape of the boot floor. The fold is too straight.
To fix this problem I use my shrinker stretcher. If anyone doesn't know about these things, they're cheap and one of my all time favourite tools.
Here is the first bend going in with the shrinker.
Followed by a couple more with the stretcher.
Now you can see the curves it has created in the 90 degree fold. Clever little machine : )
Now it follows the lines of the piece it attaches to, so will be a better join and look a lot better too.
What was left of the original piece had some ribs pressed into it, so I thought I'd do a similar thing with the bead roller. This tool and the shrinker/stretcher are from Summit and are the cheapest ones I've been able to find. Even cheap ones are damn handy!!!!
Starting to look respectable now.
Getting it roughly into shape.
Now it's nearly ready to weld in. I just have to drill more holes (grrrr) and fold the lower edge in for where it joins to the rear quarter panel.
Well again that's it for this week. I'll be doing a bit on the hatch tomorrow, so wont be back on this til next week.
I'm actually really enjoying this one.
I got the outer tub all welded in, which is nice : ) I also sanded all the black primer off the tub as I don't trust it. I like the etch I use to that's what I want as the base.
I then got the new outer sill sanded down and drilled all the holes for plug welding along the lower lip and in the wheel arch.
I ran a full butt weld along the top of where the sill joins into the door jam. Not the funnest of jobs, but it all turned out well. I still need to remake the front section of the inner sill where the bottom of the front guard mounts, as it was stuffed so I cut it all off : )
Here's the lip with all the plug welds in it. This is now 3 layers like original, but now it's actually all steel!!!! WOW : )
Here's where the outer sill joins into the new outer tub and the new lower section of the inner tub I made.
I thought that because I wont be getting back onto this after today until next week that I should throw some etch on it to seal it all up while it's nice and fresh.
It's actually starting to look like something worth fixing now. OK, it was always worth fixing. It's a 69 camaro!!!!!!
Next I thought I'd tackle the panel that is meant to go behind the inner tub. It was a piece of old tin rivetted on before, so I don't think I'll have too much trouble improving on that : ) First step was to cut the rest of the remaining piece off.
Then I had to straighten out all the edges, particularly the lower rearmost edge. It was covered in black gunk and bog. Yummy : )
Once that was done I took some basic measurements and cut out a piece of sheetmetal.
To start the basic shape I need I put a 20mm fold into the top of the piece. This will be where it mounts to the underside of the boot floor.
Then I cut out a section to the shape of the wheel tub and hand shaped a curved lip to join to the wheel tub.
You can see here the fold doesn't really follow the shape of the boot floor. The fold is too straight.
To fix this problem I use my shrinker stretcher. If anyone doesn't know about these things, they're cheap and one of my all time favourite tools.
Here is the first bend going in with the shrinker.
Followed by a couple more with the stretcher.
Now you can see the curves it has created in the 90 degree fold. Clever little machine : )
Now it follows the lines of the piece it attaches to, so will be a better join and look a lot better too.
What was left of the original piece had some ribs pressed into it, so I thought I'd do a similar thing with the bead roller. This tool and the shrinker/stretcher are from Summit and are the cheapest ones I've been able to find. Even cheap ones are damn handy!!!!
Starting to look respectable now.
Getting it roughly into shape.
Now it's nearly ready to weld in. I just have to drill more holes (grrrr) and fold the lower edge in for where it joins to the rear quarter panel.
Well again that's it for this week. I'll be doing a bit on the hatch tomorrow, so wont be back on this til next week.
I'm actually really enjoying this one.
#98
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:07 PM
So summit is the place to get a shrinker and roller from.
Two tools i have been thinking of getting for a while.
Last time i had to do a bead i just made up a die and hammered it in, but was a bit of a pita.
Excellent work mate.
Cheers.
Two tools i have been thinking of getting for a while.
Last time i had to do a bead i just made up a die and hammered it in, but was a bit of a pita.
Excellent work mate.
Cheers.
#99
Bart
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:55 PM
Shrinker stretcher, beed roller, pneumatic planishing hammer, english wheel, tig....... hmmm
#100
_dirtbag_
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:02 PM
mmmm....english wheel. Mine's not a super dooper mega dollar one, but it does me fine.
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