I think I just soiled myself.
Bee-yoo-ti-ful
hr x2 panelvan authenticity
Started by
_robslxhatch_
, Jul 07 2010 11:04 PM
33 replies to this topic
#26
wot179
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 04:58 PM
#27
_robslxhatch_
_robslxhatch_
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:28 PM
some very nice looking cars there Steve , love the first one . I have a bit of an update . the car has spent most of its time out west so the rust is minimal there is a bit in the lower guards but none around the gutters, celica 5 spd, disc front x2 carbies and dash, motor has been changed , to a hg kingswood engine ,no paperwork or anything else to substantiate its authenticity , i think it is just a mok up but even if my mate bought it it would cost a fair bit to get back to 'original' cond anyway.thanks for everyones help/advice.
cheers Rob.
cheers Rob.
#28
_Tensixty6_
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 09:38 AM
Redesigned cam with increased overlap and opening period.
The listed cam specs are
In opens 43 deg BTC. In closes 83 deg ABC.
Ex opens 78 deg BBC. Ex closes 48 deg ATC.
FWIW, the X2 and 186S camshaft where the same specification. The specifications are:
Advertised timing IN. opens 25.5 btdc closes 54.5 abdc, EX. opens 60 bbdc closes 20 atdc. Advertised duration 260 on both IN. & EX.
Timing @ 0.050" of lift IN. opens -10 btdc closes 22.5 abdc, EX. opens 25.5 bbdc closes -12.5 atdc. Duration @ 0.050" IN. 192.5 EX. 193.0.
Lift at the lobe 0.225" IN. & EX. Lift at the valve 0.337" IN. & EX.
As you can see, even way back in the good old days, this was only a very mild cam.
My car ownership days started back in 1971 with a brief stint in a Morris Mini. My second car was a HD X2 Premier. Burgundy with a black vinyl roof. I still remember the sport sound of the exhaust note.
Cheers
Chris
#29
_HQ SS_
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 02:41 PM
Very nice HR's I only wish mine looked like that.
The real problem with cars like the HR X2 is that there are so few actual physical things on the body's and by the looks of it nothing on
the id plates that could actually prove that it is a genuine car.
You have the likes of the badge holes and locations and the things listed previously to guide you but in the end it would be very hard to confirm a factory made X2.
The thing is in the end the car that you look at that has the most correct X2 parts on it is slightly more likely to be genuine than one with nothing at all on it.
Hi Tensixty6 Chris.
I am interested in where you got those specs from.
It is too detailed for anything I have seen so far from Holden, are they actually measured/graphed off a genuine cam.
Cheers Paul.
The real problem with cars like the HR X2 is that there are so few actual physical things on the body's and by the looks of it nothing on
the id plates that could actually prove that it is a genuine car.
You have the likes of the badge holes and locations and the things listed previously to guide you but in the end it would be very hard to confirm a factory made X2.
The thing is in the end the car that you look at that has the most correct X2 parts on it is slightly more likely to be genuine than one with nothing at all on it.
Hi Tensixty6 Chris.
I am interested in where you got those specs from.
It is too detailed for anything I have seen so far from Holden, are they actually measured/graphed off a genuine cam.
Cheers Paul.
#30
_Tensixty6_
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 03:57 PM
Hi Tensixty6 Chris.
I am interested in where you got those specs from.
It is too detailed for anything I have seen so far from Holden, are they actually measured/graphed off a genuine cam.
Cheers Paul.
Yes, Paul, taken from actual camshafts. I've worked for WADE CAMS for 40 years. Now I'm the owner. Regardless of what the workshop manual says I can assure you the X2 and 186S cam is only very mild. Almost the same lift as the standard cam and 12 degrees more advertised duration and roughly the same amount extra @ 0.050" of lift.
Chris
#31
_HQ SS_
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:25 AM
Thanks heaps Chris.
I thought the measurements were too good to have come from Holden.
I knew that the measurements from Holden were not a good measurement to use but there seems to be no other measurements out there for them.
Until now that is.
So I was right that they were just a higher duration cam and that,s it or is the profile actually different in other ways to a std cam.
I copied these from out of my workshop manuals yesterday to show that even Holden's way of listing the cams has varied over time.
Std HR
X2
HK 6cyl
LH and HQ
Improved performance manual
and a V8 HT one to show how bad it can get.
So basically are these measurements not worth the paper they are written on, as I with my limited knowledge have never been able to work out how this
related to all other measurements I have seen or done myself.
This is why I brought up the 50" measurements, at least you can use that as a real measurement.
I also noticed yesterday that it lists a different head part number for a X2 engine and that it lists a different exhaust valve as well.
This was news to me as I have never seen any mention of a different head before.
Would you know anything about that side of things at all Chris.
Sorry for carrying on about all of this in your thread Robslxhatch but it is something I have looked at before and have never been able to get to the bottom of it.
Cheers Paul.
I thought the measurements were too good to have come from Holden.
I knew that the measurements from Holden were not a good measurement to use but there seems to be no other measurements out there for them.
Until now that is.
So I was right that they were just a higher duration cam and that,s it or is the profile actually different in other ways to a std cam.
I copied these from out of my workshop manuals yesterday to show that even Holden's way of listing the cams has varied over time.
Std HR
X2
HK 6cyl
LH and HQ
Improved performance manual
and a V8 HT one to show how bad it can get.
So basically are these measurements not worth the paper they are written on, as I with my limited knowledge have never been able to work out how this
related to all other measurements I have seen or done myself.
This is why I brought up the 50" measurements, at least you can use that as a real measurement.
I also noticed yesterday that it lists a different head part number for a X2 engine and that it lists a different exhaust valve as well.
This was news to me as I have never seen any mention of a different head before.
Would you know anything about that side of things at all Chris.
Sorry for carrying on about all of this in your thread Robslxhatch but it is something I have looked at before and have never been able to get to the bottom of it.
Cheers Paul.
#32
_Tensixty6_
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:00 PM
I think I might have worked out why there is such a difference Paul. My guess is GMH have quite timing at the valve rather than at the cam. Quoting timing at the valve is highly innacurate. As far as the difference between the standard 6cyl cam and the X2 / 186S, yes, just more duration, that's all. I don't know about the different head part number.
#33
_HQ SS_
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:44 PM
Thanks Chris.
You solved it and the answer was looking me in the face all the time.
I have just looked at the parts book and the figures are all in the valve specifications section not in the cam specification section.
That's why it says valve lift and valve timing not cam lift and cam timing.
That would explain why they just did not make sense to any other specs I had compared them too.
I could sort of understand a solid lifter set up being done this way but not a hydraulic lifter set up.
The chance of bleed down from the hydraulic lifter while doing it would make it very unreliable.
I have just checked a FC work shop manual and they are the same.
So maybe the way they did it was just a carry over from the Grey motor solid lifter days.
Cheers Paul
You solved it and the answer was looking me in the face all the time.
I have just looked at the parts book and the figures are all in the valve specifications section not in the cam specification section.
That's why it says valve lift and valve timing not cam lift and cam timing.
That would explain why they just did not make sense to any other specs I had compared them too.
I could sort of understand a solid lifter set up being done this way but not a hydraulic lifter set up.
The chance of bleed down from the hydraulic lifter while doing it would make it very unreliable.
I have just checked a FC work shop manual and they are the same.
So maybe the way they did it was just a carry over from the Grey motor solid lifter days.
Cheers Paul
#34
Bathurst72
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:38 PM
Hi Heads are different in S engine but not sure for X2. S has different valve springs. Just what I can remember but would have to look up info, its been a while since I have played HR 186S stuff.
steve
steve
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