Datto:I've got the same ford m/cyl on my lc...would it be ok to use on my car.Vs ute rear disc/calipers & twin piston mustang or covette calipers on the front? Haven't got the remote boosters yet.
Are there specs anywhere to find out just what the pedal ratio is on an lc/j?
AP Racing Vs Nissan 4pot callipers
Started by
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, Jul 25 2010 03:10 AM
93 replies to this topic
#51
gtrboyy
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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:15 PM
#52
dattoman
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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:22 PM
Not a fan of that master personally
Go measure the pedal...... use a stick... with numbers on it
Go measure the pedal...... use a stick... with numbers on it
#53
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Posted 08 November 2010 - 05:22 PM
Got some 5040's for 500 hundred each delivered rrp 619 but can't find any 4020's any idea wher to get them?
remember reading somewhere that you need to show vehicle details for these as only came out on vn ss?
Also tried to find som replacement hand brake shoes for vc - vs commodore you would think easy but drove aroud town for 1/2 a day WTF. got some eventually, but just easier to order shit off evilbay and that is saying something.
remember reading somewhere that you need to show vehicle details for these as only came out on vn ss?
Also tried to find som replacement hand brake shoes for vc - vs commodore you would think easy but drove aroud town for 1/2 a day WTF. got some eventually, but just easier to order shit off evilbay and that is saying something.
#54
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Posted 08 November 2010 - 06:23 PM
4020 is common as muck
They should be gettable fairly easy
Or just use 020's.... I doubt you will need to really go to 4000 series on the back
Sounds like you need a better supplier though
They should be gettable fairly easy
Or just use 020's.... I doubt you will need to really go to 4000 series on the back
Sounds like you need a better supplier though
#55
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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:36 PM
AP Callipers and Ferodo pads rocked up today. 
Callipers are bigger and lighter than i expected actually. The pads are almost heavier than the callipers.
I assumed the callipers would come with some sort of basic mounting bracket assembly that I would have to modify, but no. I assume it will be too hard and heavy to make a suitable right angle bracket myself? Am i best off buying the AP brackets then making my own adapter brackets out of flat bar/plate? Is standard mild steel ok or do I need something with a little more strength like 350-400Mpa. Also would 10mm thickness be ok? Is there anyting else I will need to order?
Datto have you got any pics or dimensions of right angle brackets to start me off?
At this rate I will have to knock off another bank before I'm finished the build haha.
Want to have it back on the road before the end of the year, so I'll have to start a build thread sometime, might try later tonight if i get time.
Callipers are bigger and lighter than i expected actually. The pads are almost heavier than the callipers.
I assumed the callipers would come with some sort of basic mounting bracket assembly that I would have to modify, but no. I assume it will be too hard and heavy to make a suitable right angle bracket myself? Am i best off buying the AP brackets then making my own adapter brackets out of flat bar/plate? Is standard mild steel ok or do I need something with a little more strength like 350-400Mpa. Also would 10mm thickness be ok? Is there anyting else I will need to order?
Datto have you got any pics or dimensions of right angle brackets to start me off?
At this rate I will have to knock off another bank before I'm finished the build haha.
Want to have it back on the road before the end of the year, so I'll have to start a build thread sometime, might try later tonight if i get time.
#56
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Posted 10 November 2010 - 04:56 PM
Sounds like you need a better supplier though
That would be nice but this is Darwin, we only got color TV here last year - seriously
#57
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Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:23 PM
Make your own brackets
Radially mounted calipers make life so much easier
There isn't one that you can buy that will even be close.
They are just a piece of angle looking... sometime steel (10mm thick)
Or 6061T6 alloy
The trick is making it clear all the bits... control arms... steering... stubs
Heres some on a Torana already..... he made his own brackets - alloy blocks (330mm rotor)
Radially mounted calipers make life so much easier
There isn't one that you can buy that will even be close.
They are just a piece of angle looking... sometime steel (10mm thick)
Or 6061T6 alloy
The trick is making it clear all the bits... control arms... steering... stubs
Heres some on a Torana already..... he made his own brackets - alloy blocks (330mm rotor)
#58
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Posted 10 November 2010 - 08:03 PM
Would these AP's be any good for 328mm dba 5046?Make your own brackets
Radially mounted calipers make life so much easier
There isn't one that you can buy that will even be close.
They are just a piece of angle looking... sometime steel (10mm thick)
Or 6061T6 alloy
The trick is making it clear all the bits... control arms... steering... stubs
Heres some on a Torana already..... he made his own brackets - alloy blocks (330mm rotor)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AP-Racing-CP5200-4-pot-brake-calipers-rally-race-/220693772520?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item33625fb8e8
It lists the largest disc size as 305's
#59
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Posted 10 November 2010 - 08:43 PM
Ask him what the last digits are after CP5200
I think you'll find they might suit a min 305 not max
I would use them on a 5048 disc... since its 32mm......... not a 5046 (28mm) and are the same price (I think)
Same pad as the 5200's already discussed here ... just wider
I think you'll find they might suit a min 305 not max
I would use them on a 5048 disc... since its 32mm......... not a 5046 (28mm) and are the same price (I think)
Same pad as the 5200's already discussed here ... just wider
#60
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Posted 11 November 2010 - 03:53 PM
Yeah had a bit of a surf around the net last night and after seeing a few brackets they don't look that hard. Just waiting for the conversion hubs and discs to rock up, then i might try and knock up a bracket out of wood using the router.
Some examples of AP Kit Brackets
...And example bracket
Datto, checked out the 6160-6T Alloy looks like the go, 310 Mpa Tensile and 280 Mpa Yeild Strength. Also not that expensive even in Darwin as a metre length of 2 inch solid stock is around $70. smaller stock is available but then minimum buy is 4-6m.
My preference would be to use high tensile bolts with nyloc nuts, but if there is no room is it ok to drill and tap directly into the alloy? I have seen this done before but would be less confident with this setup.
Any chance anyone knows what alloy the actual callipers are made out of?
Also do you have to worry about surface hardening or embrittlement issues when you work the alloy with grinder/die grinder? Amy isues with surface contamination similar to using a mild steel electric brush to clean up stainless?
Some examples of AP Kit Brackets
...And example bracket
Datto, checked out the 6160-6T Alloy looks like the go, 310 Mpa Tensile and 280 Mpa Yeild Strength. Also not that expensive even in Darwin as a metre length of 2 inch solid stock is around $70. smaller stock is available but then minimum buy is 4-6m.
My preference would be to use high tensile bolts with nyloc nuts, but if there is no room is it ok to drill and tap directly into the alloy? I have seen this done before but would be less confident with this setup.
Any chance anyone knows what alloy the actual callipers are made out of?
Also do you have to worry about surface hardening or embrittlement issues when you work the alloy with grinder/die grinder? Amy isues with surface contamination similar to using a mild steel electric brush to clean up stainless?
#61
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Posted 11 November 2010 - 04:53 PM
You can drill and tap straight into the 6061
If your not 100% confident you can put a steel thread insert into it aswell
Just keep it clean and it should all be fine..... you shouldn't need to do much grinder clean up anyway
I use caphead screws for fastening...nice 12.9 grade I think they are
If your not 100% confident you can put a steel thread insert into it aswell
Just keep it clean and it should all be fine..... you shouldn't need to do much grinder clean up anyway
I use caphead screws for fastening...nice 12.9 grade I think they are
#62
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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:45 AM
Still have not been able to find any DBA4020SL and DBA4020SR Discs. Tried Repco, supercheap, independant, competion friction, V sport but they all say that DBA don't make these any more. My only chance is to find somewhere with a set in stock. Can anyone help me out here?
Orderd my conversion hubs and nisan callipers almost 2 weeks ago, the same day as the AP callipers, AP's turned up 3 days later still waiting on everything else.
Orderd my conversion hubs and nisan callipers almost 2 weeks ago, the same day as the AP callipers, AP's turned up 3 days later still waiting on everything else.
#63
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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:13 PM
I'm on the trail of some discs for you
Will advise when I find something
Will advise when I find something
#64
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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:15 PM
Contact DBA and see if they can tell you retailers in your area who have ordered them recently.
#65
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Posted 16 November 2010 - 11:34 AM
DBA warehouse in Perth has 2 only DBA020
RDA has plain and slotted in their own brand
The DBA ones of course could be slotted for extra cash
RDA has plain and slotted in their own brand
The DBA ones of course could be slotted for extra cash
#66
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Posted 16 November 2010 - 12:10 PM
I may be being over cautious but I don't think using nylocs around brakes is a great idea, I would think the brakes would get hot enough to meld the nylon. Maybe use conelocks or equivilant.
Edited by Peter UC, 16 November 2010 - 12:10 PM.
#67
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Posted 16 November 2010 - 07:08 PM
Thanks Datto
even though they are on the back i still would have prefered the 4000 series, but looks i may have to settle for standard ones.
Peter
Valid point i guess. Initially i was thinking of drilling and tapping the alloy bracket then adding a lock nut to the back, that way if the thread stripped it would have to pull the nut through the bracket or crack before it failled completely. However since looking at various sets of callipers i have lying around most of the alloy ones are just tapped as datto pointed out. The R32 rear callipers that turned up today have a steel thread insert in the alloy callipers themselves.
Conversion hubs also arrived today and are pretty heavy duty. The bearing carrier is 1/2" thick, is this fairly standard? At least the studs are threaded not welded to comply with the RTA.
The hubs had been in Darwin since early last week but Toll being the useless frockers they are were too lazy to deliver it. I'm pretty sure they must stpulate on their employment form "If you can't count you IQ on your fingers, you need not apply". It may just be the Darwin branch but every single thing I have recieved from them has been damaged beyond repair or excessively late.
even though they are on the back i still would have prefered the 4000 series, but looks i may have to settle for standard ones.
Peter
Valid point i guess. Initially i was thinking of drilling and tapping the alloy bracket then adding a lock nut to the back, that way if the thread stripped it would have to pull the nut through the bracket or crack before it failled completely. However since looking at various sets of callipers i have lying around most of the alloy ones are just tapped as datto pointed out. The R32 rear callipers that turned up today have a steel thread insert in the alloy callipers themselves.
Conversion hubs also arrived today and are pretty heavy duty. The bearing carrier is 1/2" thick, is this fairly standard? At least the studs are threaded not welded to comply with the RTA.
The hubs had been in Darwin since early last week but Toll being the useless frockers they are were too lazy to deliver it. I'm pretty sure they must stpulate on their employment form "If you can't count you IQ on your fingers, you need not apply". It may just be the Darwin branch but every single thing I have recieved from them has been damaged beyond repair or excessively late.
#68
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Posted 17 November 2010 - 10:24 PM
If in doubt use 4140 or 4340 steel for your brackts I would say. I used this stuff (4340)to make my front top suspension shaft/mounts. Different application but she aint going no where. Hard shit to machine but go steady and you will get there.Thanks Datto
even though they are on the back i still would have prefered the 4000 series, but looks i may have to settle for standard ones.
Peter
Valid point i guess. Initially i was thinking of drilling and tapping the alloy bracket then adding a lock nut to the back, that way if the thread stripped it would have to pull the nut through the bracket or crack before it failled completely. However since looking at various sets of callipers i have lying around most of the alloy ones are just tapped as datto pointed out. The R32 rear callipers that turned up today have a steel thread insert in the alloy callipers themselves.
Conversion hubs also arrived today and are pretty heavy duty. The bearing carrier is 1/2" thick, is this fairly standard? At least the studs are threaded not welded to comply with the RTA.
The hubs had been in Darwin since early last week but Toll being the useless frockers they are were too lazy to deliver it. I'm pretty sure they must stpulate on their employment form "If you can't count you IQ on your fingers, you need not apply". It may just be the Darwin branch but every single thing I have recieved from them has been damaged beyond repair or excessively late.
Im keeping an eye on this thread as I want to do similar to my LJ and go to a Commodore stud pattern. I was going to go Willwood calipers as they are apparently cheaper, not as good as AP but good enoughfor my application.
Good job mate, keep the pics comming
Edited by Bart, 17 November 2010 - 10:37 PM.
#69
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Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:44 AM
Oh... and that last pair of 020's
They might be waiting with my name on them
They might be waiting with my name on them
#70
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Posted 18 November 2010 - 11:39 AM
Im a little behind the ball on this stuff, but what are VT hub adapters??
Is this what you guys are talking about? (In the web page) I think the VB-VP discs fit LJ/LH/HQ stubs there fore these hubs (In the web page) should fit and are modified to suit VT upgrades. Is this correct or have i got the bull by the balls here?
http://holmart.com.au/online/prod1627.htm
Is this what you guys are talking about? (In the web page) I think the VB-VP discs fit LJ/LH/HQ stubs there fore these hubs (In the web page) should fit and are modified to suit VT upgrades. Is this correct or have i got the bull by the balls here?
http://holmart.com.au/online/prod1627.htm
If it was that easy... everyone would do it
However you can use various Commodore rotors depending on what size disc you want... 300 or 330mm are the most common... 28mm thick
As for rears... take a look at antelopes pics... they are almost identical to what would use
What he's got there appear to be DBA5046 (28mm) or maybe 5048 (32mm) rotors for front and CP5700 style 6 piston calipers calipers with a fabricated hub to mount the disc to the stub
The rears are VT HSV 315mm vented rears with a custom backing plate for handbrake
Looks like it might be a CP5147 series caliper
I'm guessing numbers here but I'm sure antelope will correct me
Pretty close Datto!
Front discs are DBA5046B, 330mm x 28mm. (I purchased the discs from you Neil!)
Front calipers are CP5570.
Rear discs are HSV DBA4049, 315mm x 18mm.
Rear calipers are CP7607
Backing plate is a custom Banksia park brake setup (as used in VT Commodore). It accepts the Torana park brake cable with no mods, direct fitment.
Stub axles are 2" drop stub with VT hub adaptors to accept the front discs. Stub axles also have been drilled to accept Commodore caliper mounting.
#71
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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:21 PM
No worries Bart just learning by doing and asking 101 dumb questions.
Front discs should get here early next week and I ordered the DBA020 slotted for the back from Competion Frictions sister shop ( A sport or V sport or something similar) yeterday.
I think i will try the alloy brackets first and just keep a keen eye on them from every now and then. Might get em tested after 10,000km. Can't MPI them, so what method would you use?
I have tried to get a rebuild kit for the Nissan Callipers from my local Nissan dealer but they just use some random CD's from Japan and keep sugesting parts that have nothing to do with what i have asked them. If you can't give them a VIN number then you are stuffed. Only other kits i have found on the web have been full rebuild kits for the front and back. Guess i'll try racebrakes later today.
Been raining like a bitch up here, lying in rocky mud pudles trying to work on the car is not fun
. So yesterday I had to compact all the random junk in the shed and push the EH further in so i could get the LC under cover and actually on some cement. Then not only was it pissing down, it was windy as all hell and the rain was comming in horizontal just to spite me.
Pulled the chasis kit out of the shed and put the LC up on stands. The CRS instructions are pretty terrible, so not 100% sure what they are refering too in some bits.....
To fit rails - scrape all body deadner from under the guards where chassis
must fit. This is most important as any foreign matter here will throw the
whole kit out. If the bottom edge or the stock chassis along where gearbox the crossmember bolts in is bent or out of shape from being jacked up here, or for whatever reason, the body must be reshaped to original or again the kit will not fit properly.
Grind 6mm off where the plate sits up to give extra clearance and for main bolt hole to lineup. -
What part is this refering to? Is it grind 6mm off the spacer washer on the engine cross member to Chassis rail brace arms (radius arms)? assume this will be replaced with 6mm bracket of the chassis kit???
Grind washers off outside of chassis rail.
Remove the nut from the rear trailing arm and push the bolt in until the end of the thread is just visible.
Fit the chassis rails to the front of the body and fit the bolt that holds the front
radius arm in' If lined up drill through original hole, bolt up and drill others in this area. Do not over tighten
Holding the chassis hard up with jacks fit the rear radius arm bolts with the
machined spacer washers between the rails and brackets, if this bolt doesn�t
line up which it will unless severe body stretching has occurred. This is the
only area to slot hole in chassis kit.
Drill holes up through floor and through rear side body rails. Bolt up fitting the rear tie bar and the two flat drilled plates
on the rear inside floor. Drill the 1/4" holes around the edges of the rail kit and
bolt up using the 1/4" bolts and large flat washers around edges and on inside of
car down the fire wall face.
Front discs should get here early next week and I ordered the DBA020 slotted for the back from Competion Frictions sister shop ( A sport or V sport or something similar) yeterday.
I think i will try the alloy brackets first and just keep a keen eye on them from every now and then. Might get em tested after 10,000km. Can't MPI them, so what method would you use?
I have tried to get a rebuild kit for the Nissan Callipers from my local Nissan dealer but they just use some random CD's from Japan and keep sugesting parts that have nothing to do with what i have asked them. If you can't give them a VIN number then you are stuffed. Only other kits i have found on the web have been full rebuild kits for the front and back. Guess i'll try racebrakes later today.
Been raining like a bitch up here, lying in rocky mud pudles trying to work on the car is not fun
. So yesterday I had to compact all the random junk in the shed and push the EH further in so i could get the LC under cover and actually on some cement. Then not only was it pissing down, it was windy as all hell and the rain was comming in horizontal just to spite me.Pulled the chasis kit out of the shed and put the LC up on stands. The CRS instructions are pretty terrible, so not 100% sure what they are refering too in some bits.....
To fit rails - scrape all body deadner from under the guards where chassis
must fit. This is most important as any foreign matter here will throw the
whole kit out. If the bottom edge or the stock chassis along where gearbox the crossmember bolts in is bent or out of shape from being jacked up here, or for whatever reason, the body must be reshaped to original or again the kit will not fit properly.
Grind 6mm off where the plate sits up to give extra clearance and for main bolt hole to lineup. -
What part is this refering to? Is it grind 6mm off the spacer washer on the engine cross member to Chassis rail brace arms (radius arms)? assume this will be replaced with 6mm bracket of the chassis kit???Grind washers off outside of chassis rail.
Remove the nut from the rear trailing arm and push the bolt in until the end of the thread is just visible.
Fit the chassis rails to the front of the body and fit the bolt that holds the front
radius arm in' If lined up drill through original hole, bolt up and drill others in this area. Do not over tighten
Holding the chassis hard up with jacks fit the rear radius arm bolts with the
machined spacer washers between the rails and brackets, if this bolt doesn�t
line up which it will unless severe body stretching has occurred. This is the
only area to slot hole in chassis kit.
Drill holes up through floor and through rear side body rails. Bolt up fitting the rear tie bar and the two flat drilled plates
on the rear inside floor. Drill the 1/4" holes around the edges of the rail kit and
bolt up using the 1/4" bolts and large flat washers around edges and on inside of
car down the fire wall face.
#72
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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:31 PM
Im a little behind the ball on this stuff, but what are VT hub adapters??
Is this what you guys are talking about? (In the web page) I think the VB-VP discs fit LJ/LH/HQ stubs there fore these hubs (In the web page) should fit and are modified to suit VT upgrades. Is this correct or have i got the bull by the balls here?
http://holmart.com.a...ne/prod1627.htm
If it was that easy... everyone would do it
However you can use various Commodore rotors depending on what size disc you want... 300 or 330mm are the most common... 28mm thick
As for rears... take a look at antelopes pics... they are almost identical to what would use
What he's got there appear to be DBA5046 (28mm) or maybe 5048 (32mm) rotors for front and CP5700 style 6 piston calipers calipers with a fabricated hub to mount the disc to the stub
The rears are VT HSV 315mm vented rears with a custom backing plate for handbrake
Looks like it might be a CP5147 series caliper
I'm guessing numbers here but I'm sure antelope will correct me
Pretty close Datto!
Front discs are DBA5046B, 330mm x 28mm. (I purchased the discs from you Neil!)
Front calipers are CP5570.
Rear discs are HSV DBA4049, 315mm x 18mm.
Rear calipers are CP7607
Backing plate is a custom Banksia park brake setup (as used in VT Commodore). It accepts the Torana park brake cable with no mods, direct fitment.
Stub axles are 2" drop stub with VT hub adaptors to accept the front discs. Stub axles also have been drilled to accept Commodore caliper mounting.
Bart
I brought similar hubs to the ones you linked, the ones i brought are made out of a better grade of steel K1045 for $350 a pair includes wheel bearings off evilbay = mr spares
http://cgi.ebay.com....e=STRK:MEWNX:IT
antelopes are 2inch drop stubs which change the ride height and have the conversion hub also.
#73
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Posted 18 November 2010 - 02:42 PM
Is there an aluminium hub alternative? I know Willwood make aluminium ones for some GM cars. I wonder if anyone makes aluminium hubs for Vauxal Monza?
Im a little behind the ball on this stuff, but what are VT hub adapters??
Is this what you guys are talking about? (In the web page) I think the VB-VP discs fit LJ/LH/HQ stubs there fore these hubs (In the web page) should fit and are modified to suit VT upgrades. Is this correct or have i got the bull by the balls here?
http://holmart.com.a...ne/prod1627.htm
If it was that easy... everyone would do it
However you can use various Commodore rotors depending on what size disc you want... 300 or 330mm are the most common... 28mm thick
As for rears... take a look at antelopes pics... they are almost identical to what would use
What he's got there appear to be DBA5046 (28mm) or maybe 5048 (32mm) rotors for front and CP5700 style 6 piston calipers calipers with a fabricated hub to mount the disc to the stub
The rears are VT HSV 315mm vented rears with a custom backing plate for handbrake
Looks like it might be a CP5147 series caliper
I'm guessing numbers here but I'm sure antelope will correct me
Pretty close Datto!
Front discs are DBA5046B, 330mm x 28mm. (I purchased the discs from you Neil!)
Front calipers are CP5570.
Rear discs are HSV DBA4049, 315mm x 18mm.
Rear calipers are CP7607
Backing plate is a custom Banksia park brake setup (as used in VT Commodore). It accepts the Torana park brake cable with no mods, direct fitment.
Stub axles are 2" drop stub with VT hub adaptors to accept the front discs. Stub axles also have been drilled to accept Commodore caliper mounting.
Bart
I brought similar hubs to the ones you linked, the ones i brought are made out of a better grade of steel K1045 for $350 a pair includes wheel bearings off evilbay = mr spares
http://cgi.ebay.com....e=STRK:MEWNX:IT
antelopes are 2inch drop stubs which change the ride height and have the conversion hub also.
#74
dattoman
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Posted 18 November 2010 - 05:34 PM
I thought you said there weren't any 020's around
Cept the ones I have here
Cept the ones I have here
#75
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Posted 19 November 2010 - 08:44 AM
I thought you said there weren't any 020's around
Cept the ones I have here
Datto
I meant no 4020's as in the heat treated version 4000 series. Sorry for the confusion.
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