32 replies to this topic

[UCANG]

Okay, so I have established by reading the paint and panel section through and through that 2k etch is the far more superior product to lay over a prepared or non prepared bare metal surface for protection and seal. I've known this for many years. What I didn't know is the following:

Unfortunately for me, I don't think its a good idea to use this. I am happy to purchase all the PPE to go with it, but without a proper booth etc spraying at home is illegal. Fair enough.

Now, is there any acrylic products out there (due to advancement in paint) that can do an 'as good' job? At the moment in my project certain areas (eg: back of a rear quarter panel/ back of a beaver panel etc etc) I clean up and bare metal that back the same as I would for the visible area. A 2k etch primer would be perfect for those areas as I can give them a squirt and put them back on, and (hopefully) be rest assured that it's a decent job and fairly insured. With from what I know, acrylic etch on these areas would suck up moisture. What if I was to put an etch over it, then a surfacer? But wouldn't the acrylic surfacer be porous as well? And I am unsure about the spray cans as well.



When I did work experience for a restoration shop, they used what they called "red brown" over a car that has came back from the blasters. These cars would be sitting around for months/ years in red brown, even pushed outside while its raining. They even got me to spray this stuff on, and it wasnt in a booth or anything. (its only when I sprayed 2k primer over a celica that I was in a booth with the air fed mask).

What would you guys do? I assume some are like me, concentrate on an area, fix it up, metal finish and what have you, then spray some etch and move on.

When I get time at work this week, i'll give a Protec dealer near my place a call I reckon, get their scope.. I wonder if any of their employees were or are painters themselves..

Cheers

[UCANG]

so 2k etch is fine to use because it's a single component primer? No hardener or anything?

[UCANG]

Sweet, i'll give a paint supplier a call this week, see what they have. Sounds good

[UCANG]

Isn't 2 pack etch epoxy? I just googled 2 pack etch primer and it came up with this stuff and the description says this:

SUPER ETCH PRIMER
Description:
Single pack epoxy etch primer with exceptional adhesion. Very fast dry times and sandable.

[UCANG]

I went to Protec today and just as a trial I bought what they recommended in etch primer "etchpro" Its a single pack epoxy(i only got the spray pack though to try it, didn't wanna get 1 L if it was going to be crap).
He said thats its a really good seller and very popular, however still needs to be top coated as all primers (in acrylic) will absorb moisture.
So maybe bare metal, spray some etch, then get some GMH black (or whatever) put it over the top and leave it, I wonder if that will suffice. (remember this is for panels that are never exposed but too overkill to spray sound deadener over (which I bought also haha)

[UCANG]

I agree with you Quaggy, that's a good idea.

abtorana, yes the rust converter I use is good for that also. Here's an example of one of the many uses I am trying to explain here (as it is difficult haha):
(This is one of the scenarios)
I have cut the whole rear taillight area of the back of my hatch. I have used a donor rear, and cleaned up the backside of the panel and got it to bare metal, I have covered it in rust converter. Once I weld it back into the car, I can't do anything with it anymore, so thats why i'm asking for peoples opinion on what I can coat this newly cleaned panel with before I weld it back on and lose access to it. I'd hate to clean it, rust convert it, and later down the track it surface rusts again especially from the back
.
With 2 pack primer with the catalyst it'll do the job fine, but I think for us acrylic users, from what I have learnt, a nice etch with a topcoat will be the go to lock it all in. - that or I can just go get Por15 :S

[UCANG]

Fair enough. So what is the name of any 2k etch product (preferably Protec) that is single pack? Multiple etch primers for different applications sounds confusing.

[UCANG]

the 426 vinyl - to me - seems like a good etch primer. It'll probably do my exterior and hidden panels (providing theres something over the top.. what do you recommend for that?)

The 404 - if its the one I read correctly on the site, states that its an enamel product, not recommended to sit underneath 2 pack and lacquers

[UCANG]

I spray 2k over 404ns all the time, dont confuse 404 with 404ns, totally different product.

Plus if its for internal panels then whats wrong with enamel? Like seriously man what are you trying to achieve here?

Are you top coating the outside with 2k or acrylic?

But yeah, the 426 should be ok, what do you want to top coat it with? Were still talking about internal areas right? Not 2k i would assume, and by the way the tech data sheet reads you cant go acrylic, so its enamel, and as i've already said 304 cause its cheap but good.

I just don't want to use different products. It'll be great to have an etch/ undercoat that can be used for those never to be seen again panels for peace of mind, and for outer panels while i'm doing my repairs.

I'll be doing the car in acrylic.

Having said all that though, I did read the 404 NS and it does state that it's suitable for both single pack and 2 pack topcoats.

[UCANG]

OK OK, i did a bit more reading into this. AND its starting to make sence, especially when I go back and read the previous posts so forgive me but getting my head around this is beneficial in my eyes, which promotes a better quality job in the long run.

The Americans have a product which a specific DVD series use called Zero-Rust, its a spray on primer in black and red oxide, that can be applied to backside of panels to coat it and prevent further rust damage etc. It does contain an alkyd resin like the product you suggested Bomber.

As for a KBS coating product or POR15, sounds good, but the amount of washing and this and that, nah I prefer going to primer then top coat way.

So let me get this straight, Bomber going by your recommended products: the inner panel gets prepped to my liking (cleaned, wire wheeled up a bit/ or sanded, rust converter layed down, sand that if needed), a bit of 404 NS over that (can also be put on remaining paints as it states), then a top coat over that like a black 304 or 363 enamel, and done, move onto the next area?

oh and btw, I didn't realise with the Etchpro you can weld straight onto that stuff! Amazing! at least I didn't waste my money and I can use it as a weld through primer for that bit more insurance. Had to try it out, expected my wire to come out and nothing happen but no she sparked.

[UCANG]

or KBS coatings 3 step / POR15