I know this is not usually the stuff we cover but I also know that I can get the best sort of information here because there are some pretty handy engine builders here and even some F=-%d aficionados too.
I have a mate with a 302 in his XB coupe and was wanting some information on stroking it out. Can anybody tell me what the capacities are it can be taken it out too and the standard sort of rod combos, cranks and stuff ppl use.
I have no experience with ford gear so any information would be a help.
Cheers,
302 stroker question
Started by
_MAWLER_
, May 14 2006 03:41 PM
30 replies to this topic
#2
Peter UC
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Posted 14 May 2006 - 05:11 PM
If it's a 302 Cleveland which in a XB I would assume it is, the 351 crank, rods pistons drop straight in, just watch your compression ratio.
#3
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Posted 14 May 2006 - 05:22 PM
Really!? There you go, didn't think it would be that simple. I was expecting something like a 347ci from a COME crank or similar.
What if its a Windsor, none of that stuff will fit?
Cheers,
What if its a Windsor, none of that stuff will fit?
Cheers,
#4
_[BOTTLEDUP]_
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Posted 14 May 2006 - 05:52 PM
There are quite a few kits out there... If its a 302 Clevo then you can got straight to a 383, or 393 even a 408ci kit is available.
If its a Windsor then you're limited to 347ci, due to the smaller deck height.
If its a Windsor then you're limited to 347ci, due to the smaller deck height.
#5
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Posted 14 May 2006 - 08:59 PM
I knew you could take a Cleveland out to 372 CID, didn't know they could go to over 400 CID.
#6
lakeside
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Posted 14 May 2006 - 11:27 PM
they made a 400 Cleveland. It was a truck engine, the block has a taller deck height
#7
_Jewboy_
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 01:51 AM
Sorry to steal the thread but might be useful. How can you tell the difference between windsor and cleveland? I've got a 302 here in pieces. Anything easy to identify them
There was 351M aswell
There was 351M aswell
#8
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 01:52 AM
Sorry to steal the thread but might be useful. How can you tell the difference between windsor and cleveland? I've got a 302 here in pieces. Anything easy to identify them
There was 351M aswell
There was 351M aswell
#9
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 02:05 AM
the heads for one clevland valves are stagerd windsor are together if you get what i mean cant remember other differnces
#10
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 08:10 AM
And the clevo's are a really wide engine conpared to the windsor
#11
lakeside
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 02:00 PM
302 clevelands also have orange rocker covers, the rest have blue
#12
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 02:42 PM
Exactly the next question I was going to ask Jewboy so good call.
The engine is in the car and all hooked up but no fuel system. Is there a definitive way to tell if it is a clevo or windsor without having to pull the heads off or take it out etc. The less work that has to be done the better.
2nd question, we found an old trading post add from a couple of owners ago in the bag of receits he got given which claims it was stroked to 351. Again, is it possible to verify this without doing too much work, ie, through just removing the sump and looking that way, rather than dismantling the thing.
Thanks for all the help guys, poor bloke hasn't got this far in months, haha.
The engine is in the car and all hooked up but no fuel system. Is there a definitive way to tell if it is a clevo or windsor without having to pull the heads off or take it out etc. The less work that has to be done the better.
2nd question, we found an old trading post add from a couple of owners ago in the bag of receits he got given which claims it was stroked to 351. Again, is it possible to verify this without doing too much work, ie, through just removing the sump and looking that way, rather than dismantling the thing.
Thanks for all the help guys, poor bloke hasn't got this far in months, haha.
#13
_high_rpm_
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 03:38 PM
tappet covers on a clevo are alot wider
the engine is alot wider as well i forget the angles but the windsors heads sits about 1/2 inches more then the clevo
the engine is alot wider as well i forget the angles but the windsors heads sits about 1/2 inches more then the clevo
#14
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Posted 15 May 2006 - 04:24 PM
Some helpful info, but I don't actually have two engines to compare side by side size/angles/measurements with 
. So really need some stand alone info that I can inspect/measure to make positive id.
Edit: From memory, the whole engine and heads are blue. So that would suggest windsor then, unless the whole kit has been resprayed in Ford blue, just for looks.
Cheers,
. So really need some stand alone info that I can inspect/measure to make positive id.Edit: From memory, the whole engine and heads are blue. So that would suggest windsor then, unless the whole kit has been resprayed in Ford blue, just for looks.
Cheers,
Edited by Liam, 15 May 2006 - 04:26 PM.
#15
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Posted 16 May 2006 - 12:51 PM
Being the Ford person I guess I should handle this one. 
Clevelands are best identified by their larger 'square' style rocker covers, they also have a pressed tin timing cover. The deck height of a Clevo (from mains tunnel to head face) is 9.2" vs 8.2 for a 302W. When I get home I can post up a couple of pics of a clevo to show you what it looks like.
If the engine has been 'stroked' to a 351, then my money is on a Clevo.
Unfortunately there isn't a way to externally verify if the engine is a 302 Clevo or a 351... only difference is the stroke, which needs a head off to measure correctly.
Any other Q's feel free to PM me mate.
-Dave.
Clevelands are best identified by their larger 'square' style rocker covers, they also have a pressed tin timing cover. The deck height of a Clevo (from mains tunnel to head face) is 9.2" vs 8.2 for a 302W. When I get home I can post up a couple of pics of a clevo to show you what it looks like.
If the engine has been 'stroked' to a 351, then my money is on a Clevo.
Unfortunately there isn't a way to externally verify if the engine is a 302 Clevo or a 351... only difference is the stroke, which needs a head off to measure correctly.
Any other Q's feel free to PM me mate.
-Dave.
#16
Dr Terry
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Posted 16 May 2006 - 01:53 PM
Hi Guys.
The easiest way to tell a Cleveland from a Windsor is where the top radiator hose goes. The thermostat housing is fitted to the block on a Cleveland & to the front of the inlet manifold on a Windsor.
Dr Terry.
The easiest way to tell a Cleveland from a Windsor is where the top radiator hose goes. The thermostat housing is fitted to the block on a Cleveland & to the front of the inlet manifold on a Windsor.
Dr Terry.
#17
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Posted 16 May 2006 - 03:28 PM
Legends. Thanks guys, you've certainly done the trick in helping us to the next stage. If he's going to be roping me in to working on this thing in future then I'll certainly be taking you up on the offer of more info Dave, much appreciated.
It was all good when he had is HQ, now that he's gone to the XB, I dunno, I just can't look him in the eye anymore, lol. Has sure made me reailse I don't know squat about anything but Holdens tho.
Cheers,
It was all good when he had is HQ, now that he's gone to the XB, I dunno, I just can't look him in the eye anymore, lol. Has sure made me reailse I don't know squat about anything but Holdens tho.
Cheers,
Edited by Liam, 16 May 2006 - 03:29 PM.
#18
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Posted 16 May 2006 - 04:59 PM
if you know how long the standard stroke is you can take a plug out and stick a bit of wire down there.
i got told to do that when i bought my motor. still havent done it though
torrietree
i got told to do that when i bought my motor. still havent done it though
torrietree
#19
_high_rpm_
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Posted 16 May 2006 - 05:23 PM
here i was thinking you only knew everything about holdens...Hi Guys.
The easiest way to tell a Cleveland from a Windsor is where the top radiator hose goes. The thermostat housing is fitted to the block on a Cleveland & to the front of the inlet manifold on a Windsor.
Dr Terry.
#20
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Posted 16 May 2006 - 06:27 PM
Don't you hate those kind of ppl ^^^ who know so much about everything 
Edited by Liam, 16 May 2006 - 06:28 PM.
#21
Dr Terry
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Posted 17 May 2006 - 10:24 AM
Hi Guys.
I've been turning spanners for 30 years (& 10 years before that in my backyard) which is WAY too long.
I can answer as many questions as you like on Ford, Chryslers & even riceburners.
Dr Terry.
I've been turning spanners for 30 years (& 10 years before that in my backyard) which is WAY too long.
I can answer as many questions as you like on Ford, Chryslers & even riceburners.
Dr Terry.
#22
_Pete_
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 06:08 PM
I've got a sneaking suspicion windsors can be taken out further than 400ci, i know the 347 stroker kit is run of the mill stuff in the US and i'm positive theres a 406ci kit as well, Don't the Trick & Mansweto boys run a big inch windsor in their lovely little 2ENIL8 Capri?? that runs the big numbers down the track?
#23
_Oldn64_
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 06:59 PM
If you wish to look at the valves being staggred or together then pull the rocker cover. yo wll see where the valves are in relation to each other wihout pulling teh heads.. 
Cheers
Cheers
#24
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Posted 20 May 2006 - 09:00 AM
Pete, I don't think that the T&M eninge would be an original cast block! My understanding is that the windsor is a much better bottom end so a lot of the trick stuff in drag cars (serious ones) are based on the windsor bottom end, but obviously all brand new special gear. Just what I heard.
Good one Oldn, I always did have a problem with thinking spacially
Good one Oldn, I always did have a problem with thinking spacially
#25
_[BOTTLEDUP]_
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 07:40 PM
302 windsors and 351 windsors use a totally different block.I've got a sneaking suspicion windsors can be taken out further than 400ci, i know the 347 stroker kit is run of the mill stuff in the US and i'm positive theres a 406ci kit as well, Don't the Trick & Mansweto boys run a big inch windsor in their lovely little 2ENIL8 Capri?? that runs the big numbers down the track?
Consider one as a Big Block Chev and the other a small block.
347 is as large as you would be able to go with a 302 Windsor block, unless its an R series Ford Racing race block, which can be safely bored to 4.200.
T&M's Capri used to run a windsor based DART block (same as what I have) now it is using an after market 600ci 'mountain' motor...
Biggest cubes I can get out of mine is 455ci, but that's not really practicle, it will make more power, and last longer as a sub 440ci engine.
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