1672 replies to this topic

[dattoman]

Sure mate let me know where and when and I'll come have a look

[myss427]

Happens a lot the movement, quick fix is put a heavy long bar down the collector and pull to the left or right. You will be surprised in how easy they will move and not break welds.

[eyepeeler]

I read a new thread the other day that was put up by a new bloke, he races IP in a hatchback and was seeking info on the trans tunnel mod drawings for the Top Loader.
Long story short, it turns out what did to my tunnel to fit the Jerico is considered illegal. To say I'm a little pissed off right now is a massive understatement.
I thought what I had done was ok, it wouldn't fit any other way, well at least that I could see.
So it's all a bit shit right now, and I'm in for a massive job to fix it if I want race in IP.
Ffffffaaaaaaarrrrrrkkkkkk......

[Bigfella237]

At this stage I'd suggest you just keep going and see if they pick up on it, I doubt it will make that much difference whether you fix it now or afterward, it's the same amount of work either way?

 

So I assume to fix this you'll need to go back to a different gearbox too? Damn...

[eyepeeler]

That really sucks after all the work :( Can you get any sort of exemption or anything or is the rule the rule for the tunnel?On the bright side, you could always just bring the car over here and drive it around on the street...

Pro Touring, that idea is not lost on me Jeff, that's for sure.
Will be hoping for an exemption.

There is another class that runs here that I could enter in, but it's not as good as what I want to run in.

[eyepeeler]

At this stage I'd suggest you just keep going and see if they pick up on it, I doubt it will make that much difference whether you fix it now or afterward, it's the same amount of work either way?
 
So I assume to fix this you'll need to go back to a different gearbox too? Damn...

Will be doing just that Andrew, forging ahead for the moment. I am going to the the scruiteneering bloke for he class over to talk to him.
I hope I can explain why I did what I did and they give me the green light. I can only hope.
I really though I did build that part within rules.

[ozyozyozy]

That's shit mate.
There are guys using fabricated tunnels to fit holingers.
I'll bet half the cars that run IP are illegal anyway.
Talking to about this to some people other day.
If you had a Larry Perkins or a Roland Dane running a team, a lot of cars would be getting kicked out.

[eyepeeler]

That's shit mate.
There are guys using fabricated tunnels to fit holingers.
I'll bet half the cars that run IP are illegal anyway.
Talking to about this to some people other day.
If you had a Larry Perkins or a Roland Dane running a team, a lot of cars would be getting kicked out.

From what else I've read since my question on the IP forum leads me to believe what you are saying Daz.
I've approached the build as an open book, no secrets in what I am building or have built so far.
What I don't want to happen is me getting the car on track and someone ruling me out because of the way I've built something.
Hence the open book build.

[davea79]

My car had a Toploader in it when I got the poor old girl.

I've had ST10 reinstated to make it period correct.

They presented the same issues to the tunnel.

Linkages & shifter to the passenger side of tunnel hence the blister.

I'm having issues with loading photos on my phone due to poor reception down the coast but from memory you cut along passenger side of tunnel.

What part of rules have you broken that differs from the A9X blister arrangement?

DaveA

[eyepeeler]

My car had a Toploader in it when I got the poor old girl.
I've had ST10 reinstated to make it period correct.
They presented the same issues to the tunnel.
Linkages & shifter to the passenger side of tunnel hence the blister.
I'm having issues with loading photos on my phone due to poor reception down the coast but from memory you cut along passenger side of tunnel.
What part of rules have you broken that differs from the A9X blister arrangement?
DaveA

Hi Dave,
The rule in question is the interpretation of how much can be cut out and replaced to fit a replacement gearbox and clutch.
Clutch and gearboxes in H pattern are free items, you can choose any box you like.
I chose a Jerico box as they are tough as nails and hard to break.
The rule states as copy and pasted from the CAMS 3J rules:


3.2. TRANSMISSION TUNNEL: Minor reshaping of the body is permitted to enable fitment of replacement gearboxes and clutch assemblies.

So that allows me minor reshaping. The defention on minor reshaping as copy and pasted from the same rules:

1.13 MINOR RESHAPING: Reshaping of existing material. This excludes the addition, replacement or removal of material and must not result in a loss of integrity of the panel.

So that says I can't add, replace or remove any material from the tunnel. Basically I could bash it out a bit to fit a gearbox with out affecting the integrity of the tunnel.

NOW the rule on gearbox linkages and shifter are different as copy and pasted:

3.3 GEARSHIFT HOLE: It is permissible to cut or enlarge a hole in the floor, of the minimum necessary dimensions, for the gearshift and associated mechanism. At all times, there must be some form of covering around the gearshift to prevent the ingress of material into the cockpit.

So I cut, widened and added material to the LHS of the tunnel to fit the linkages and shifter which on its own is ok as per rule 3.3. The RHS of the tunnel I also cut out as underneath it was rusted a bit and I thought that I would remake the part of the tunnel affected.
Where some have had the issue is the RHS as it doesn't have anything to do the linkages or shifter and I replaced that part which is rule 3.2. I am arguing that I needed to replace it as it was buggered and I thought I would make it myself rather than find a doner car for that part.

Rules are quite tight in IP. There is an option for me to run in a class called Street Car here in WA, it doesn't have such stringent rules.
I want to run IP as I can use the car all over Australia as IP is a national class. I would love to drive Phillip Island.

I plan to keep going for the moment and keep talking to the powers that be and hope it gets through as is.

Edited by eyepeeler, 05 April 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[Rockoz]

Does 1.13 actually apply in relation to the Tunnel?

Or is it for other panels?

Seems to be a little contradictory.

Need to see the rest of 1 to get it in context

[eyepeeler]

Does 1.13 actually apply in relation to the Tunnel?
Or is it for other panels?
Seems to be a little contradictory.
Need to see the rest of 1 to get it in context

http://docs.cams.com...p-3J-2015-1.pdf

Link to 3J rules.
1 is all definitions and 3 is all body work and dimensions.
3.3 only relates to an allowance to modify body work for linkages only.

1.13 is a definition on what is "minor reshaping". 1.13 could be used on any part of the body where rule makers see the need for it.

Edited by eyepeeler, 05 April 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[eyepeeler]

Hell mate just oxy the hell out of the tunnel and bash out a much as you like then. You can do that just as easily as welding in a slight larger patch!

I wish it was as easy as that Liam. By Oxying and bashing the hell out of it, they could argue that the inegrity of the part or panel has been affected.
It's pretty grey I must admit, certainly not black and white.
I have had some support from others that think what I have done is ok and others who think it's not.

[Rockoz]

Would think cutting and replacing would be better for strength and integrity than stretching.

Would also think that if the gearbox is allowed, then any modification for it would also be allowed provided the mods were as minimal as necessary

[Rockoz]

All good what you have done according to my interpretation.

 

Allowed to cut or enlarge hole for gearshift and associated linkages. Which is what you did to get it to fit.

 

Must be some form of covering to stop ingress. You chose metal to cover.

[eyepeeler]

All good what you have done according to my interpretation.
 
Allowed to cut or enlarge hole for gearshift and associated linkages. Which is what you did to get it to fit.
 
Must be some form of covering to stop ingress. You chose metal to cover.

Cheers Rob. That was my interpretation at the time.
It has caused quite a debate though.

[eyepeeler]

Didn't you have a CAMS dude come over and check it out like 12 months ago?

Yes I did have a CAMS bloke over, he was ok with it but that was more for the cage. That is also covered by rules.
Because I made my own cage I wanted to make sure it was ok prior to painting.


Link to Schedule J
http://docs.cams.com...le-J-2015-1.pdf

Doing this on my own and especially for the first time has been daunting. How do I know what I have done is ok??
There have been some great people offer advice along the way, some of them also race Torana's in IP.

Edited by eyepeeler, 05 April 2015 - 06:20 PM.

[eyepeeler]

Would think cutting and replacing would be better for strength and integrity than stretching.
Would also think that if the gearbox is allowed, then any modification for it would also be allowed provided the mods were as minimal as necessary

Minor Reshaping goes back a long way. Remember that Group C Torana's had hammered out sections for clearance.
Didn't mean they cut out and enlarged the section.

[Rockoz]

Reading through the rules there is room for interpretation in a lot of places.

It is up to the individuals at the time ie you and the scrutineer to agree with your interpretation.

 

Might be a good idea for you to document all your changes with the related rule and your interpretation.

That way you can show the scrutineer.

Even document the CAMS inspection on the roll cage.

 

With some of the categories spirit and intent of the rules used to be a catchphrase.

Basically it meant dont go stupid with mods.

But if allowable in the intent then go for it.

[Rockoz]

Think minor reshaping is more along the lines of wheel arches.

Dont read more than what is in the rules.

If you get a picky scrutineer he will do that for you.

But if you can show him the rule you abided by then its up to the senior scrutineer or an appeal

[eyepeeler]

Think minor reshaping is more along the lines of wheel arches.
Dont read more than what is in the rules.
If you get a picky scrutineer he will do that for you.
But if you can show him the rule you abided by then its up to the senior scrutineer or an appeal

LOL, I try not to get to caught up in that!! Read the rules long enough and it sends you mad.
I have pretty much documented everything I have done. Most of which is in the 45 pages on this forum.
I have thousands of photos of what I did.
All modifications have been thought through.

If you have time to read back I also had to grapple with the steering column mounts in 13.1
Not sure what page that's on in this thread?? That's just another example similar to this.
Lots of decisions have had to be made.