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12 Port Injection manifold

Started by _Inj gtr202_ , Jul 13 2011 09:39 PM

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116 replies to this topic

#1 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:39 PM

Hi all

After going back and forth with Oldjohnno about the flow capabilities of the VK Injection system it was decided that it was not gonna be up to pulling any more power than the high 100's.
So it was decided I had to make my own.
I thought I'd throw a few progress pic's up for everyone to see where I'm at and how I'm making it. (if you ever want to make one yourself)

Below is a wedge used to bash the pipe to the same shape as the inlet ports, used a test piece of alloy pipe.

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Next I milled out some mild steel to roughly the same as the head for a flange. (leaving about 5mm for fine tuning later on).

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#2 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:45 PM

Next I turned up some bellmouth inserts to form the radius on the end of the inlet pipes.

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#3 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:52 PM

Purchased some 45mm OD mandrel bend exhaust pipe with 100mm Radius and 150mm of straight after the bends (cut most of it off anyway)

Sat them next to the VK Manifoild to get a feel for how they are going to be layed out.

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Did a few measurements so see how long I need for the 2nd Harmonic and it turns out is almost identical to the VK length (about 20" total)
so the Mandrel bends are cut 110mm from the Radius at the bottom and pretty much at the tengent up the top.
Cheched clearance etc. and made a jig to hold it all together while it gets fabricated.

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#4 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:58 PM

This is pretty much where I'm at now.
Still need to make the Plenum chamber and finish welding it all together.

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#5 _73gtr_

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:01 PM

All I can say is wow, great skill!
Look forward to more photos

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#6 Stinga

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:21 PM

looks good so far, why steel and not ally? where will the injectors go?

keen to see it progress!

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#7 Neils LX

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:39 PM

Im not into the old holden 6s much but you have done some great work there. Cant wait to see it finished.

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#8 FastEHHolden

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:02 PM

I cant wait to see figures!!!

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#9 _nicko61_

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:46 PM

_{is it possible to make them shorter as in height so you can install them under the hood of older Holdens,}

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#10 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 12:43 AM

_{is it possible to make them shorter as in height so you can install them under the hood of older Holdens,}

Not really, the throttle body will only just clear the rocker cover as it is, you could easily make them shorter to pick up the 3rd Harmonic and have them coming straight out the side with a front mount TB style plenum (aka RB26).

I made them out of steel because I have no access to a TIG welder (not that I know how to weld ally anyway).
Plan on putting the injectors close to the head because I want to use the same rail and injectors that I already have. (unless there is a very good reason to move them)
Should weigh less than the VK system anyway

Adam

Edited by Inj gtr202, 14 July 2011 - 12:46 AM.

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#11 _Gunmetal LH_

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:51 AM

Love it!

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#12 _Ned Loh_

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:52 AM

Great work & thanks for posting up. Will be watching with interest.

Why not go IR? Cost and complexity?

What�s the brief for the motor (what are you aiming for)?

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#13 _mick74lh_

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:24 AM

Wow thats so cool. I'll definitely be watching how this progresses.

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#14 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:49 PM

Sex.

Cheers.

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#15 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 02:54 AM

Great work & thanks for posting up. Will be watching with interest.

Why not go IR? Cost and complexity?

What's the brief for the motor (what are you aiming for)?

I chose not to go with the IR system because I already had all the bits to put together a Single TB Plenum type manifold. If I was doing it from scratch (from a carby) The Sonic IR system would definitely be a consideration.

[IMG]http://i1100.photobu...t=HeadFlow1.jpg[IMG]
I'm also trying to gain a few extra HP through having the longer runners (like tunnel ram)

I'm aiming for about 250hp from the motor and still have it reasonably street friendly.

I'm running the Camtech Solid CT35 634A-107 My link

The head flow figures (minus the manifold) are as below.

Edited by Inj gtr202, 15 July 2011 - 03:08 AM.

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#16 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 05:55 AM

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#17 _Ned Loh_

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 03:50 PM

I'm aiming for about 250hp from the motor and still have it reasonably street friendly.

Sounds like FUN.

You may wish to investigate holding the exhaust back a bit.

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#18 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 11:10 PM

I'm aiming for about 250hp from the motor and still have it reasonably street friendly.

Sounds like FUN.

You may wish to investigate holding the exhaust back a bit.

The original plan was to have a cam ground with .453" lift on the exhaust (instead of .519"), but for some reason it did'nt happen.
Tony (from Knight Engines) assured me the extra exhaust made very little difference.

other than different ratio rockers what else could be done to pull it back a bit?

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#19 ilovea9x

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:06 AM

I've been told to stay away from steel when making an inlet manifold, something to do with how the heat can build up in one spot with steel but alloy speads it. You can use a mig when welding alloy and you will find it easier than think.

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#20 _jabba_

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:13 AM

Looks really nice! I wish i had access to those kinda tools

.

Its not too late to go ITB

. ITB with shower injection, ducati style.

Edited by jabba, 18 July 2011 - 12:14 AM.

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#21 _Ned Loh_

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 05:18 PM

The original plan was to have a cam ground with .453" lift on the exhaust (instead of .519"), but for some reason it did'nt happen.
Tony (from Knight Engines) assured me the extra exhaust made very little difference.

other than different ratio rockers what else could be done to pull it back a bit?

My earlier post for you to investigate holding back exhaust rather than giving a definitive answer was because I don't know the full details of your combo, and your into my grey area of experience. Now, my quick answer to your above question to my way of thinking the best way to compensate for an over ported exhaust would be camshaft...but...in my view you really need to look at optimising the whole package in relation to your aims to work this sort of stuff out. EG, running a reverse pattern cam to compensate for an over ported exhaust will be counterproductive if your headers are too small (say 1-1/2" where they would optimally be 1-5/8") and you are building for max HP.

Mate, not trying to cast doubt. At 250 odd hp as per your aim, I'd expect (but have never tested) that there would be very little difference like your man says.

If anyone has tested back to back a single pattern against a reverse pattern with a similar head would be great to hear from you here...

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#22 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:52 PM

Beautiful work Adam! Like everyone else I can't wait to see how it goes.

A couple of comments on some of the replies. I too would have preferred a fair bit less exhaust lobe, and would definitely be using as little rocker as possible on the hot side. From what I've seen, at least 90% of ported Holden heads seem to be overported on the exhaust, and often overcammed on that side too. Don't be tempted to "underpipe" it to compensate - the pipe size has to be what it has to be and fudging it will only make it worse.

Plenum rams generally make more top end than ITB's, though the latter will usually have a bit more fill at the lower end of the curve for a given cam. Horses for courses..

The theory about hot spots with steel is horseshit. I actually prefer steel for this kind of thing - if you need to "adjust" things on the dyno or after track testing then it can be done quickly and easily with basic equipment. And I think the photos prove that steel isn't necessarily ugly...

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#23 _jabba_

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:01 AM

A coat of paint and no one would even know what its made of, it looks fantastic

.

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#24 _70rey_

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 02:46 PM

looks mint. top work

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#25 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 06:27 PM

Managed to find a few hours this week to do a bit more work.

Turned up some injector bosses.
Welded the runners to the flanges
Cut the holes for the injectors.

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