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Fugly's LH Torana Project

Started by _Fugly_ , Jul 18 2011 12:14 AM

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19 replies to this topic

#1 _Fugly_

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:14 AM

This is my LH Torana that i am in the process of fitting a LS# into, but first a bit of background.
I purchased it about 5-6 years ago it had a healthy offset stroked 308 in it that dynoed at 304rwhp, toploader gearbox & the obligatory 9" & had run a 12.2@116mph on street tyres.
I have not had it regoed, so it has just been sitting around in sheds, i dragged it out for the NQ PRO Burnout comp last year, i was stopped by an electrical problem.................... the dizzy stopped turning due to the camshaft being smash into pieces by the conrod that broke in half after it seized to the crank from the lack of oil.

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So that left me needing a new engine & i have decided to go LS.
After much deliberation i have also decided to drop the toploader & go T400.

Where i am at so far -
A mate had bought a set of CAE part# CH-EM70 mounts
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which i borrowed to dummy a LS2 in place, the block rested on the firewall lip on the RH side, i have since found out that that lip has to be cut off to allow the motor to fit on these mounts, the plastic heater demister cover would have to be modified as well to run these mounts.
I looked at these mounts as well but they look like they will sit the motor in the same poition as the CAE mounts.
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I bought a set of CRS part# EM105 engine mount adapters, these sit the motor approx 10mm lower & 20-25mm further forward,
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so now i could bolt the dummy T400 to the back of the block, mind you the T400 into LH gearbox cross member i bought off CRS goes nowhere near fitting, the mount is about 3" to far forward, still talking to CRS to try & sort this out, anyone had this problem before???????????

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Some things i have to sort out that hopefully the guy's who have done the LS conversion before will be able to help with.
I have read that some guy's have used the MSD Starter part # 5096, Is it that much smaller than the factory Starters or was the main reason because of the solenoid?
With the VE starter solenoid standing up at 12 o'clock would it still be an advantage to use the MSD starter?

Which sump & engine mount combo did you use & was any mods required to make it fit?
I am looking at either the Milodon part#30915 or part#30916 or the Moroso part# 20140, most conversions seem to be using the Moroso pan but it looks to me like the Milodon would fit better with the CRS mounts?

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Or

That will have to do for now
If you can share any details that would be very much apprieciated.

Cheers Brenton.

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#2 _Fugly_

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 07:15 PM

Got the dimensions for the Moroso #20140 off there site & measured it up this arvo, it will not fit using off the shelf CRS mounts.

Ringing Milodon in morning to get some dimensions & to see what the difference is between part#30915 & #30916, wish they had better info on there site.

I am also looking at modifying the CRS mounts to move the motor back about 10-15mm, that way one of these sumps should fit & i still won't have to modify the firewall.

Edited by Fugly, 19 July 2011 - 07:22 PM.

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#3 _berro59_

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 08:02 PM

This thing will fly! I will keep a eye on this build!

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#4 _crum_

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:00 AM

What thickness material are those sumps pictured above made from as the cast alloy sump on the LS1 is a structural part of the block. I see the CRS ones to suit other conversions such as HQ are made from 8mm plate. I'm looking into doing this conversion sometime down the track but have a bit of a concern as a mate fabricated his own sump using 3mm for a conversion into a WB and it spun bearings as soon as he let go of transbrake (was previously running a cut and shut stock sump with no dramas)

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#5 Growla

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Location:Canberra ACT
Car:LX SL/R LS1 conversion completed July 2010
Joined: 07-February 07

Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:35 AM

Here is a sump that is cast and has a low profile to suit. It doesn't have the bolt holes to attach the gearbox but I don�t think the auto bell housing does anyway. From experience, get the motor as low as possible for drive line angle setup. Here is the link

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/

cheers

Mark

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#6 ls2lxhatch

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Joined: 29-May 06

Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:36 AM

Got the dimensions for the Moroso #20140 off there site & measured it up this arvo, it will not fit using off the shelf CRS mounts.

The Moroso 20140 fits with CAE, CRS and Tuff Mount engine mounts. I have the 20140 with CRS HQ-WB LS1 engine mounts. The CRS HQ-WB engine mounts are lower than the CAE LS1 Torana mounts.

The Mast oil pan looks like a good option if it fits as you don't need a remote oil filter. The remote oil filter setup can get quite expensive and you have to find somewhere to fit the remote filter. I can not find what the capacity is.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 20 July 2011 - 11:42 AM.

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#7 _Fugly_

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:13 PM

hey ls2lxhatch, i am interested in how much room you have between the crossmember & the front edge of your pan? my measurements still show that that sump won't fit my LH?
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Brenton/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png Posted Image

MOROSO part# 20140

I put a square on the P/S sump rail & slid it forward until it touched the cross member & then measured to the back edge of the block, the result is 243mm.

These are the dimensions i have for the 3 sumps:
Total depth: all are 6" or 152mm.
Front depth: Moroso 1-13/16" or 46.4mm, Milodon both 1-3/4" or 44.5mm.
Bowl length from rear: Moroso 9-11/16" or 246mm, Milodon 30915 9-1/4" or 235mm, Milodon 30916 8-1/4" or 210mm.
Bowl width: Moroso 10-1/4" or 260mm, both Milodon sumps 11" or 280mm.

My conclusion from those measurements is the Moroso 20140 won't fit, the Milodon 30915 would just fit & the Milodon 30916 would fit easy.
With the information ls2lxhatch has put forward i am getting more & more confused with each passing day :dontknow:

With me getting into my LS# conversion i have inspired my mate to do a bit more preparation on some of the bits he collected a couple years ago, he had bought a LS# truck sump that he machined down today to make it fit.
Test fitting it in my car
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Little close on RH side but would be ok after mounts are evened up, none of this conversion stuff fits properly :surrenderwave:

.

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#8 _Fugly_

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:19 PM

Here is a sump that is cast and has a low profile to suit. It doesn't have the bolt holes to attach the gearbox but I don't think the auto bell housing does anyway. From experience, get the motor as low as possible for drive line angle setup. Here is the link

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/

cheers

Mark

Thanks for the tip, that's what i suspected & that's one of the reasons i preferred the CRS mounts.
Cheers Brenton.

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#9 _Fugly_

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:22 PM

What thickness material are those sumps pictured above made from as the cast alloy sump on the LS1 is a structural part of the block. I see the CRS ones to suit other conversions such as HQ are made from 8mm plate. I'm looking into doing this conversion sometime down the track but have a bit of a concern as a mate fabricated his own sump using 3mm for a conversion into a WB and it spun bearings as soon as he let go of transbrake (was previously running a cut and shut stock sump with no dramas)

Has anyone else seen any possible flexing problems by using the tin sumps???

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#10 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:45 PM

My understanding of the "structural oil pan" is that it strengthens the gearbox to engine mounting. The transmission has a 360 degree bell housing with bolts into the oil pan to reduce flexing between the engine and transmission. The main bearings are cross bolted into the skirt of the block, I don't see that an alloy pan would add any measurable strength to the block.

Hot Rod Magazine - LS1 Block Basics

A deep-skirted bottom end allows for cross-bolted mains and minimises noise emission, integrating with a stressed-member cast-aluminium oil pan to further stiffen the powertrain combo of the engine and transmission.

If you do not have a factory gearbox then you will not get any benefit from a structural oil pan.

There is +10 mm clearance with the 20140 and CRS HQ-WB LS1 engine mounts. More with the CAE Torana LS1 mounts but in my opinion the engine is too high with the CAE Torana LS1 mounts.

This is the only picture I have at the moment. The engine mounts in the picture have the same dimensions as the CRS HQ-WB LS1 engine mounts. I like the position of the CRS HQ-WB LS1 engine mounts however I don't trust the rubbers that you have to use with the mounts.

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#11 _Fugly_

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 12:18 AM

Thanks for the quick response.

I still not sure why it doesn't look like the Moroso sump will fit in my car, are Torana's really that badly made?

I will have to find your build thread (what's the topic tittle?) & have a look when i get a chance to have a good look around here.
I couldn't see the sump doing to much for rigidity of the block but thought i better put it out there :dontknow:

I just sent another order through to Summit for some bits & pieces, hmmm this thing is getting out of hand, sshhh don't tell the missus :lol:

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#12 _Fugly_

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 04:20 PM

Well i put another order in this morning, i have decided to go with the Milodon part# 30915 sump.
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Brenton/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png Posted Image

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#13 _Fugly_

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:26 PM

Well i got a few Christmas presents today

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I can now see how well the Milodon sump fits & finalize the mounting position in the next couple days.

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#14 _YTsLH_

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 10:33 AM

Sweeeeeeeet!

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#15 _Fugly_

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 09:27 PM

Test fitted my new Milodon sump out this arvo, (no pics as i forgot to take my camera over) i have the LS2 block sitting on CRS engine mounts & the T400 gearbox bolted in with a CRS cross member (had to have the mount tang towards the rear for it to line up) & i can confirm that the Milodon part#30915 sump clears the rear edge of the K-frame by 5mm.
It could be used like that but i am going to move the engine back by 5mm to centralise the sump to K-frame clearance & the RH head to firewall clearance.

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#16 _Fugly_

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:05 PM

Thought i would bring the Torana home to make working on it a bit easier, so i had to swap out another couple projects for the Torana
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The Torana is now at home with a lot more room
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The rocker covers i am going to use
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Will get back on to the Torry next week as been busy fixing the Centura for this weekends NQPro Burnouts & moving stuff around.

Edited by Fugly, 11 August 2011 - 11:20 PM.

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#17 Lima31

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:40 PM

I'm not a fan of bowties on Toranas but that engine is looking sweet.

Nice truck too :buttrock:

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#18 _Fugly_

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:43 PM

I'm not a fan of bowties on Toranas but that engine is looking sweet.

Nice truck too

Cheers,
Don't worry there will be no Bow Ties any where else except for under the bonnet.

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#19 _Fugly_

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:27 AM

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#20 _atomiclh_

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:26 PM

hey brenton, there is starting to be too many chrysler people on these forums. especially ones that have had v8 centuras. cheers les from townsville. :3gears: