I also noticed that my gear stick has a cylinder 3/4's down which has rubber inside it. I guess for vibration dampening... This may point towards the origin of my gearbox... as I dont believe this is what a Torana gear stick looks like??? I wonder if it will still work with my centre console ok...?
M21 box ID
Started by
hanra
, Jul 23 2011 10:32 AM
45 replies to this topic
#26
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:03 PM
#27
S pack
-
- Members
-
- 15,691 posts
Scrivet Counter
- Name:Dave
- Location:Luggage Point
- Car:73 LJ
- Joined: 25-January 10
Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:03 PM
I also noticed that my gear stick has a cylinder 3/4's down which has rubber inside it. I guess for vibration dampening... This may point towards the origin of my gearbox... as I dont believe this is what a Torana gear stick looks like??? I wonder if it will still work with my centre console ok...?
G/day Brad
I could be wrong, as I am not as conversant with the LH/LX & UC models as some others but I believe your gearshift is the correct one for your car. This joiner in the stick will be one of the reasons why they changed from the top mounted rubber shifter boot (as used on LJ & HQ) to the bucket type that goes underneath the shifter, if you follow what I mean.
Earlier gearshifts from the LJ & HQ era didn't have the joiner in the stick. At some point in time unknown to me, they started producing the gear sticks with the joiner. As the joiner is like a rubber bush it may well be for vibration dampening but I think it is more likely just a joiner so the base (selector) part of the stick is universal to all models (to reduce production costs) and to produce a gear stick that was model specific just required inserting the appropriate top part of the stick.
Cheers
Dave.
Edited by S pack, 16 January 2012 - 02:09 PM.
#28
Bazza
-
- Members
-
- 4,295 posts
ǝɹnʇxıɟ ɯnɹoɟ
- Location:Outer Melb West Vic
- Car:ɐuɐɹoʇ
- Joined: 11-November 05
Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:48 PM
Hi
As far as I can tell, the damper type was introduced in the UC era (perhaps late LX). I have been told that the A9X had the damper type. The damper type became the correct replacement for LH - LX and continued into the the Commodore era. The LH and LX parts catalogues have been 'pen amended' to reflext the change. The non-damper type fitted to the LH and LX are not the same stick as fitted to the LC and LJ Aussie 4 speeds which was shorter and had a bend.
When I first got my LJ XU-1 - it had the damper type fitted. It worked fine but hit the handbrake at times.
Cheers
Bazza
As far as I can tell, the damper type was introduced in the UC era (perhaps late LX). I have been told that the A9X had the damper type. The damper type became the correct replacement for LH - LX and continued into the the Commodore era. The LH and LX parts catalogues have been 'pen amended' to reflext the change. The non-damper type fitted to the LH and LX are not the same stick as fitted to the LC and LJ Aussie 4 speeds which was shorter and had a bend.
When I first got my LJ XU-1 - it had the damper type fitted. It worked fine but hit the handbrake at times.
Cheers
Bazza
#29
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:44 PM
This is my stick. I hope it's the right one....?
#30
_ljharbsy_
_ljharbsy_
-
- Guests
Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:04 PM
Wow, heaps of info about these things, I have been building these things for the last 20 years, and there are so many variations now, you can also take the front snout of 4 x 1/2 inch bolts and read the number on the input shaft M21-924, M20-923. There is also a special ratio brought out in the XU1's that used a mix of ratios from the 20 and 21, also a lot of the parts are interchangable and it is easy to make a 6 box a v8 and vise versa. Given the age of these boxes unless you have owned it since new it's hard to be sure what is in the boxes now.
Cheers Steve
Cheers Steve
#31
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:08 PM
Thanks for the tips!
#32
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 11 February 2012 - 08:44 PM
Open up the inspection cover and read the part # on the cluster, that will sort the M20/M21 issue.
This will help you
http://www.monaropar.../aussie4spd.htm
Where the hell is the number located??? Can it just be read with the inspection cover off????? I couldnt see any numbers anywhere??? Does a certain gear need to be selected to allow it to be seen?
#33
S pack
-
- Members
-
- 15,691 posts
Scrivet Counter
- Name:Dave
- Location:Luggage Point
- Car:73 LJ
- Joined: 25-January 10
Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:39 PM
Where the hell is the number located??? Can it just be read with the inspection cover off????? I couldnt see any numbers anywhere??? Does a certain gear need to be selected to allow it to be seen?
The part number you seek should be easy to find on the smooth barrel of the cluster gear between the 1st and 2nd gears from memory. You may need to turn the cluster to find the number. If you still cannot find a part number then you may have an aftermarket cluster which has the last three digits of the GMH part number (497 for an M21) stamped into the end where you can't see it when installed in the box.
#34
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:41 PM
Yes I saw 497 there. So that means the internals are not stock Holden?
#35
S pack
-
- Members
-
- 15,691 posts
Scrivet Counter
- Name:Dave
- Location:Luggage Point
- Car:73 LJ
- Joined: 25-January 10
Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:48 PM
Yes I saw 497 there. So that means the internals are not stock Holden?
It means at the very least that the original cluster gear was damaged in some way and was replaced with an aftermarket cluster.
From what I have heard the Japanese made clusters were/are stronger than the original GMH items.
Edited by S pack, 11 February 2012 - 10:49 PM.
#36
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:56 PM
Righto, thanks for that Dave. But it pretty much confirms that the box I have is in fact an M21?
#37
S pack
-
- Members
-
- 15,691 posts
Scrivet Counter
- Name:Dave
- Location:Luggage Point
- Car:73 LJ
- Joined: 25-January 10
Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:01 PM
Righto, thanks for that Dave. But it pretty much confirms that the box I have is in fact an M21?
Yes, '497' is the V8 M21 cluster.
#38
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:13 PM
Good one! Thanks for your assistance Dave. Your knowledgable input is appreciated.
Edited by hanra, 11 February 2012 - 11:14 PM.
#39
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:13 PM
Noticed some more numbers on my box.
Edited by hanra, 23 February 2012 - 11:17 PM.
#40
Collo
-
- Members
-
- 114,647 posts
( . Y . )
- Location:Newcastle...Home of me.
- Car:A Black POS
- Joined: 29-February 08
Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:18 PM
Bottom pic is the serial number.
#41
_HQ SS_
_HQ SS_
-
- Guests
Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:25 PM
Top pic shows that it is a genuine M21 input shaft.
The repo ones I have all just have the 924 on them (no holden)
Second pic as stated above is the serial number from the 10th 1972 era
It is a sequential number from the first aussie box that was made thru to the last (so that covers three and four speed boxs.)
From that time frame it looks like it would have been originally fitted with a slinger type input shaft and retainer and
also a split type reverse idler gear.
Cheers Paul.
The repo ones I have all just have the 924 on them (no holden)
Second pic as stated above is the serial number from the 10th 1972 era
It is a sequential number from the first aussie box that was made thru to the last (so that covers three and four speed boxs.)
From that time frame it looks like it would have been originally fitted with a slinger type input shaft and retainer and
also a split type reverse idler gear.
Cheers Paul.
#42
hanra
-
- Members
-
- 10,936 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Brad
- Location:Farrrrrr North Qld
- Car:1975 LH SL/R 5000, 1967 Morris Cooper S, E36 BMW, Toyota Corolla, Isuzu DMax
- Joined: 24-March 11
Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:11 PM
From that time frame it looks like it would have been originally fitted with a slinger type input shaft and retainer and
also a split type reverse idler gear.
Cheers Paul.
Ive got no idea what that all means... hahahaha but sounds helpful!!
What can I get pics of to confirm all that?
Edited by hanra, 24 February 2012 - 10:14 PM.
#43
_HQ SS_
_HQ SS_
-
- Guests
Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:12 PM
Pictures 5 6 and 7 from the top of the page here
http://gallery.oldho...4spd/?g2_page=2
show the two types of input shafts and retainers.
At the bottom of that same page (from the bottom) pictures 6 7 and 8 show a two piece and one piece reverse idler.
Your input is not the slinger type but the idler could still be the two piece one but I doubt it.
The last picture on that page shows genuine and repo input shafts too.
Cheers Paul.
http://gallery.oldho...4spd/?g2_page=2
show the two types of input shafts and retainers.
At the bottom of that same page (from the bottom) pictures 6 7 and 8 show a two piece and one piece reverse idler.
Your input is not the slinger type but the idler could still be the two piece one but I doubt it.
The last picture on that page shows genuine and repo input shafts too.
Cheers Paul.
#44
_Red One_
_Red One_
-
- Guests
Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:40 PM
So if I am buying a an M21 off some bloke off gumtree and it has the right ratio as tested with counting the rotation how will I know it will fit a 308? The two 'grooves'??
Brad
#45
S pack
-
- Members
-
- 15,691 posts
Scrivet Counter
- Name:Dave
- Location:Luggage Point
- Car:73 LJ
- Joined: 25-January 10
Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:05 PM
So if I am buying a an M21 off some bloke off gumtree and it has the right ratio as tested with counting the rotation how will I know it will fit a 308? The two 'grooves'??
Brad
The V8 M15 (3spd) M20 & M21 4spds all have longer input shafts than their 6cyl counterparts.
The one groove/two grooves around the end of the input shaft splines only indicates ratios, however the grooves are not a foolproof way of identifying an M20 or M21 box.
#46
_Red One_
_Red One_
-
- Guests
Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:58 PM
Thanks S pack, The longer input shaft. No worries, cheers,
Brad
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
