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Extractors 6->3->1 vs 6->2->1

Started by _Ned Loh_ , Oct 24 2011 05:41 PM

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#26 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 09:54 PM

Its only like $60 for the license.

Will get it one day.

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#27 N/A-PWR

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 10:42 PM

found these:-

http://mez.co.uk/mez...ust_length.html

just register for this one:-

http://www.custom-ca...st/default.aspx

Need a Free one for a Six

Edited by NA-PWR, 27 March 2015 - 10:49 PM.

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#28 _duggan208_

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:56 PM

I've been considering 6 into one, not going to be easy to make them all fit together. I would think it would be important to get all the pipes the same length so no pulses enter the collecter at the same time. So each pulse will enter a bigger chamber (collector) and return a negative pressure wave, to the cylinder, as it senses an open area. I wonder if i can make up a cone (2 stroke expansion chamber) from the end of the collector to the beginning of the exhaust pipe in an attempt to expand the pressure wave. Allthough, i was thinking of cutting up my HM's and using them for a 6 into 1, regarding the former posts by old jonno, I think I'll leave them allone and attemp to make up a seperate 6 into 1. Probadly getting in way over my head. I can't say i've ever heard the different sound a 6 into 1 would make.

Regards

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#29 warrenm

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 05:43 AM

Anyone got Pipemax that can put in some factors for us?

been reading for a while, and I am down to 1 5/8" x 28" Pr with 2" x 12" S

Assuming some of the specs, 28.2" primary, 15.5" secondary.

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#30 warrenm

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 05:57 AM

I've been considering 6 into one, not going to be easy to make them all fit together. I would think it would be important to get all the pipes the same length so no pulses enter the collecter at the same time. So each pulse will enter a bigger chamber (collector) and return a negative pressure wave, to the cylinder, as it senses an open area. I wonder if i can make up a cone (2 stroke expansion chamber) from the end of the collector to the beginning of the exhaust pipe in an attempt to expand the pressure wave. Allthough, i was thinking of cutting up my HM's and using them for a 6 into 1, regarding the former posts by old jonno, I think I'll leave them allone and attemp to make up a seperate 6 into 1. Probadly getting in way over my head. I can't say i've ever heard the different sound a 6 into 1 would make.

Regards

You'll find it a "challenge" getting 6 int 1 in an LC/LJ Torana, it's hard enough getting 6>2>1

This is a 265 with them fitted. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrikIvAniaU

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#31 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 06:38 AM

A 6>1 won't give any advantage over a 6>2>1, I wouldn't even consider it.

I think exhausts are very similar to ignition systems in a way - neither are capable of adding much power, and if a new system makes more power than the old one it just means that the old one was shit and was costing power.

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#32 Dave6179

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 12:14 PM

My 6-1 didn't seem much different to the 2 piece Pacemakers I fitted after. But the sound they made was sooo sexy... I didn't listen to the wireless for three weeks!!! And of course the extra pipe work meant extra engine bay heat.

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#33 N/A-PWR

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 12:24 PM

Great Man Warren, thank-you. :spoton:

Assuming some of the specs, 28.2" primary, 15.5" secondary.

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#34 Dave6179

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 01:11 PM

Mine were 6 X 33" long into a 5" long collector with merge points, into straight 2.5, to Flowmaster style custom muffler, to std 'Mercury' see through muffler, at the rear bumper. Quietish... no drones anywhere, economicalish, pulls like a schoolboy.

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#35 Stedz_lc

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 08:01 PM

So if im going 1 3/4 primary 3 inch outlet collector and exhaust, what size in the middle in the 2 bit.

Oldjohnno or anyone else?

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#36 TerrA LX

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 07:31 AM

So are we all in agreement that a slightly larger primary will hurt power output less than a larger one will?
Does this also go for the system after the collector?

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#37 Stedz_lc

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 07:57 AM

I assume you mean then a smaller one?
Yea I would agree to a point also it will decrease torque and bring the torque curve up higher in the range, I don't know so much about the exhuast!
Although funny thing my hatch went back wards on the dyno with no exhuast! It seemed to like back pressure for some reason!

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#38 TerrA LX

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:14 AM

So are we all in agreement that a slightly larger primary will hurt power output less than a SMALLER one will?
Does this also go for the system after the collector?

Yes smaller, edited for clarification.

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#39 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 10:06 AM

So are we all in agreement that a slightly larger primary will hurt power output less than a larger one will?
Does this also go for the system after the collector?

If you're trying to make the most from a tuned system you'd have to assume that there's nothing after the collector, anything downstream can have a big - and not necessarily good - effect on the functioning of the headers. If you want the headers to work and run a muffler and tailpipe then you'd want some sort of terminator box immediately after the collector.

I assume you mean then a smaller one?
Yea I would agree to a point also it will decrease torque and bring the torque curve up higher in the range, I don't know so much about the exhuast!
Although funny thing my hatch went back wards on the dyno with no exhuast! It seemed to like back pressure for some reason!

That's not all that uncommon, and a symptom of over-exhausting. For the pressure waves to work they have to have something to travel in, and if the density of the gas remaining in the primaries is too low at overlap then the returned wave will be weak, simply because there isn't enough gas to function as a medium for the waves. The exhaust has to open late enough, and the primary has to be small enough that there is something for the piston to be working against during the exhaust stroke. Of course this is a tradeoff against maintaining power past the peak.

Edited by oldjohnno, 29 March 2015 - 10:06 AM.

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#40 Stedz_lc

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 10:59 AM

Terminator box?
So what's your suggestions on a secondary size?

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#41 UCgazman

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 01:16 PM

..... hehe

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#42 N/A-PWR

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 01:44 PM

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#43 EunUCh

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 03:46 PM

there is a bit stuff going on in exhaust header pipe ?

pp1.JPG 48.63K 3 downloads pp2.JPG 64.09K 1 downloads

I think what oldjonno meant by the box at the end of the collector was that it "shuts out" or "stops" any unwanted pressure waves from

the rest of the system after the box getting back up the primary pipe ?

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#44 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 05:13 PM

That's right. An 18" collector with a great hunk of pipe on the end of it isn't really an 18" collector anymore. Personally I think the best setup is a section of pipe that can be quickly and easily disconnected - that way you'll get the most from your header at the track and it'll be quiet on the street when you don't need the full output anyway.

If for some reason you can't do that then the big box directly behind the collector will isolate the rest of the system. Just remember that everything resonates and returns waves whether you want it to or not so making the box as big as you can will hopefully make its natural frequency too low to be a problem.

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#45 Stedz_lc

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 07:35 PM

So has anyone got any suggestions on the secondary side?

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#46 Stedz_lc

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 01:53 PM

1 7/8 or maybe 2inch that seems big thou
It's on a blown e85 202 hence the big 1 3/4 primary

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#47 madtoranajzedded

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 03:02 PM

seen a write up ages ago on 8 banger 4 in ones.they just had the 4 in 1's on no exhaust and got her going ,drove her i think

then they observed the grey ring inside pipe and then cut it back to that.

i dont know anything on subject but has anyone done this,

im just gonna sit back watch and learn haha

actually i think this might of been for drag car

Edited by madtoranajzedded, 30 March 2015 - 03:07 PM.

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#48 EunUCh

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 08:05 PM

Interisting about exhaust boxes ! the old tests show that up to 15 times the swept volume of one cylinder should be the capacity,and no less than 12 ?

of course these days there is probably ways around this to provide a more compact box to gain the desired result?

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#49 Dave6179

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 01:32 PM

seen a write up ages ago on 8 banger 4 in ones.they just had the 4 in 1's on no exhaust and got her going ,drove her i think

then they observed the grey ring inside pipe and then cut it back to that.

i dont know anything on subject but has anyone done this,

im just gonna sit back watch and learn haha

actually i think this might of been for drag car

Heard similar. Something about putting a muffler at the point where the new pipe turns blue?? Where it's hot it has the highest internal pressure, ideal spot for the 'expansion'... or tricking it into thinking it was now outside. Or something like that.