I am thinking of moving away from the Mondeo thermo fans and replacing it with mechanical fan for my 308. However for a mechamical fan to operate efficient a full shroud should be fitted. I know that Torana did have a full shroud for those fitted with aircon. Those shrouds no longer exist and Rare Spares do not make them.
Therefore I wish to fit a HQ type shroud on my already HQ radiator, but they do not fit and the fan will foul on the top of the shroud. Other issues to concider is that the position of HQ radiator when fitted to a Torana is differant to that of an orginal thin tank radiator. This means that the distance between the inner endge of core and fan (with std fan spacer) is reduced which locates the fan closer to the radiator and again fouling on the shroud.
Has anyone fitted this type of shroud with a HQ radiator or is there another option such as universal type shoud.
I welcome any tips and advice.
14 replies to this topic
#2
_torbirdie_
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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:03 PM
Ive used the shroud of a six cylinder falcon on a 6cyl torrie(v8 ones are too deep) it may have been of an ea, with a little trimming it fitted ok, which sits a lot closer to the rad than the holden ones for v8s.
Dont be afraid and go look around at a Ford wrecker!
Dont be afraid and go look around at a Ford wrecker!
#3
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:49 PM
Personally i'd fab one out of sheet metal, gonna be easyer in the end.
Cheers.
Cheers.
#4
EunUCh
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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:17 PM
I did exaclty what ur considering but found that the shroud pulled back at a reasonable rpm and cut the top of shroud
personally i would stick with thermos or do what previous poster said if u want mech. fan.engine driven fans rip about 5-10 hp
out of engine and are noisy.shit, them shrouds NLA,i gave away a brand new one still in plastic.
personally i would stick with thermos or do what previous poster said if u want mech. fan.engine driven fans rip about 5-10 hp
out of engine and are noisy.shit, them shrouds NLA,i gave away a brand new one still in plastic.
#5
_torbirdie_
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:39 AM
. fan.engine driven fans rip about 5-10 hp
out of engine and are noisy.shit, them shrouds NLA,i gave away a brand new one still in plastic.
assumed the op was going to be using the viscous clutch fan since he was comparing what was supplied with aircon models, fairly sure though that a shroud for engine driven fans was never supplied on any torry.
#6
_1ARC_
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:38 AM
Holden did have a fibre glass full shroud for V8 Torana's fitted with aircon. I contacted Rare Spares agent and they do not know if these shrouds will be produced.
I have always thought why Holden did not have a full shroud fitted to all their Torana V8 at that time. Up until the A9X, a mechanical fan was fitted without a shroud (except w/aircon). Was it to allow air flow through the radiator and around the engine or was the mechanical fan efficient even without a shroud. The A9X had a single thermo fan (on at 95deg and off at 90 deg) with out a shroud. All did not have cooling issues unless there was a fault such as blocked radiator.
Are we trying to over engineer the cooling efficiency of a Torana when engineers of that time thought that we did not need shrouds.
I have always thought why Holden did not have a full shroud fitted to all their Torana V8 at that time. Up until the A9X, a mechanical fan was fitted without a shroud (except w/aircon). Was it to allow air flow through the radiator and around the engine or was the mechanical fan efficient even without a shroud. The A9X had a single thermo fan (on at 95deg and off at 90 deg) with out a shroud. All did not have cooling issues unless there was a fault such as blocked radiator.
Are we trying to over engineer the cooling efficiency of a Torana when engineers of that time thought that we did not need shrouds.
#7
_torbirdie_
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 05:04 PM
I do remember the Lh workshop man for the aircon system did not show shrouds for either 6 or 8cy, perhaps an addition to the LX range in ac models.Holden did have a fibre glass full shroud for V8 Torana's fitted with aircon. I contacted Rare Spares agent and they do not know if these shrouds will be produced..
I have always thought why Holden did not have a full shroud fitted to all their Torana V8 at that time. Up until the A9X, a mechanical fan was fitted without a shroud (except w/aircon). Was it to allow air flow through the radiator and around the engine or was the mechanical fan efficient even without a shroud.
Aircon requires a good flow of air across the condensor and complicating that, the radiator is 2nd in line and gets heated air already going past it. The consdensor also adds another restriction to airflow. You are also possibly not aware that with aircon came the more powerful 7 bladed clutch fan was also fitted and that can move a lot more air when needed as well as perhaps a shroud. The LX and UC also scored an additional elec fan for the aircon.
my memory is getting foggy, but I believe there are issues with fixed fans and shrouds, noise, restricted airflow at speed, or even feedback effects on the fan, I
All did not have cooling issues unless there was a fault such as blocked radiator.
Are we trying to over engineer the cooling efficiency of a Torana when engineers of that time thought that we did not need shrouds.
If the car is stock and everything is in good conditions, then there shouldnt be any cooling dramas, but given that many here will have modded v8s. It doesnt take much to tip the balance on a cooling system.
Edited by torbirdie, 16 December 2011 - 05:09 PM.
#9
Struggler
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 08:14 PM
If your going to use a C/dore clutch fan then Alfa Fibreglass can suppy a f/glass shroud that will suit.
Its a direct copy of the HQ plastic full shroud without the holes drilled. You just line it up and drill the mounting holes yourself.
This assumes you are using an HQ radiator with the flange for mounting a shroud on.
HTH
Its a direct copy of the HQ plastic full shroud without the holes drilled. You just line it up and drill the mounting holes yourself.
This assumes you are using an HQ radiator with the flange for mounting a shroud on.
HTH
#10
_LH SLR 3300_
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:53 PM
I have fitted a HQ type full shroud & clutch fan to my EFI 5.0ltr LH. It has a HQ style three row core radiator & yes i did have a minor issue of the fan slightly touching the shroud when i first fitted it, however i relocated the mounting points to solve that. It works better than any of the thermo set ups i've tried & better than the fixed mechanical fan i tried too, consistantly sits on 170-180F even in traffic on a hot humid day. I can post pics if you like.I am thinking of moving away from the Mondeo thermo fans and replacing it with mechanical fan for my 308. However for a mechamical fan to operate efficient a full shroud should be fitted. I know that Torana did have a full shroud for those fitted with aircon. Those shrouds no longer exist and Rare Spares do not make them.
Therefore I wish to fit a HQ type shroud on my already HQ radiator, but they do not fit and the fan will foul on the top of the shroud. Other issues to concider is that the position of HQ radiator when fitted to a Torana is differant to that of an orginal thin tank radiator. This means that the distance between the inner endge of core and fan (with std fan spacer) is reduced which locates the fan closer to the radiator and again fouling on the shroud.
Has anyone fitted this type of shroud with a HQ radiator or is there another option such as universal type shoud.
I welcome any tips and advice.
#11
_1ARC_
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Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:57 PM
LH SLR 3300 I welcome your photos Thanks
LH SLR 3300 - please post your photes. Thank you
LH SLR 3300 - please post your photes. Thank you
#12
_LH SLR 3300_
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Posted 19 December 2011 - 04:12 PM
Sorry for the average photos, but here are some pics of the HQ-WB shroud & clutch fan set up in my LH 5.0ltr EFI.
As i mentioned before, & you also found when fitting your's, when i first fitted it, the fan blades would touch the top of the shroud when rotated. I relocated the shroud around 10mm further up to give the clearance needed.
I also performed some other mods, because i didn't want to cut into the engine bay skirts i trimmed the side tanks where the shroud would normally bolt up leaving just enough room to relocate the holes slightly in. i also trimmed a section each side from the shroud around the area of the the engine bay skirts.
This means i have to fit the fan & sit the shroud loosely in place before fitting the radiator. I also relocated the mounting holes on the shroud just inside of the original ones.
In this pic you can see one of the original holes followed by the self tapper above that attaches the shroud to the radiator.
Even though i have driven the car a few times like this & been happy with how it performs, it is only a temporary set up. Eventually i plan to remove it & fit up something more permanent in the form of captive nuts on the radiator with proper bolts & i'll plastic weld the original holes in the shroud before giving it a coat of paint just to make it neater. Also the part number for the shroud is 9945214 if you need it but i think they are all more or less the same from HQ-WB. Hope this helps & let me know if you'd like any more pics of specific areas etc. Cheers Matt
As i mentioned before, & you also found when fitting your's, when i first fitted it, the fan blades would touch the top of the shroud when rotated. I relocated the shroud around 10mm further up to give the clearance needed.
I also performed some other mods, because i didn't want to cut into the engine bay skirts i trimmed the side tanks where the shroud would normally bolt up leaving just enough room to relocate the holes slightly in. i also trimmed a section each side from the shroud around the area of the the engine bay skirts.
This means i have to fit the fan & sit the shroud loosely in place before fitting the radiator. I also relocated the mounting holes on the shroud just inside of the original ones.
In this pic you can see one of the original holes followed by the self tapper above that attaches the shroud to the radiator.
Even though i have driven the car a few times like this & been happy with how it performs, it is only a temporary set up. Eventually i plan to remove it & fit up something more permanent in the form of captive nuts on the radiator with proper bolts & i'll plastic weld the original holes in the shroud before giving it a coat of paint just to make it neater. Also the part number for the shroud is 9945214 if you need it but i think they are all more or less the same from HQ-WB. Hope this helps & let me know if you'd like any more pics of specific areas etc. Cheers Matt
#13
_1ARC_
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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:00 PM
Thanks Matt. Your radiator seams to sit up higher than normal, have you used the standard top holes on the radiator to mount to front panel or have you drilled new holes. I have a HQ type radiator and I used the top holes to mount and redrilled the bottom, however mine does not sit as high as yours. It may be just the angle of the photo.
Can you provide a photo of the fan set up so as I can see how to mount one of these types of fans.
Also what is the distance between the inner endge of the radiator and the leading edge of the fan.
Cheers
Can you provide a photo of the fan set up so as I can see how to mount one of these types of fans.
Also what is the distance between the inner endge of the radiator and the leading edge of the fan.
Cheers
#14
_pgb73_
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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:59 PM
hi not sure this info is useful i fitted hq radiater and shroud to my hg 308 brougham slight mods to fit chassi rails same prob with fan,used red 6 fan prob solved.
#15
_LH SLR 3300_
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Posted 19 December 2011 - 09:07 PM
No problem John, i used the original top holes to mount the radiator to the support panel & re-drilled the lower holes. I bought the radiator new & it is an ADRAD brand. I had to widen the top holes to line up with the holes on the support panel slightly though. I'll take a pic of the fan tomorrow, it actually came off the engine when it was fitted to the VN that donated it's drivetrain, but i think the only difference between them & earlier fans is the shape of the fan blades. Some, like mine, are "square" edged while others i've seen are more curved/rounded.
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