HK -HG stubs are the same as HQ as well.
KPI variations in ball joint Holdens.
Started by
wot179
, Dec 31 2011 10:42 AM
62 replies to this topic
#26
yel327
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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:12 PM
#27
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Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:16 PM
Ok, this is from the LC Torana and HQ GMH workshop manuals.
LC Torana (6cyl) and therefore LJ Torana (6cyl) LH & LX + UC? bare disc and drum stubs. SAI (KPI) = 9deg 0' +/- 0deg 10'
HQ Holden and therefore HJ and HX + HZ? bare disc and drum stubs. SAI (KPI) = 7deg 30' +/- 0deg 10'
And those figures were quoted with what camber figure?
#28
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Posted 02 January 2012 - 07:11 PM
And those figures were quoted with what camber figure?
None, those specs are for the stub axles as manufactured by GMH.
#29
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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:08 PM
An SAI (KPI) figure is only valid at the specified camber angle. So on it's own, it's as good as tits on a bull.
#30
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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:45 PM
OK lets forget all the mumbo jumbo and dark wheel aligning secrets for a moment
The stub itself has an angle to it
I think we have established H series are 7 and Toranas are 9 degrees
I think thats the point of the original questions
Probably so he can decide which stub to use to replace maybe some drum stubs on a H series with some disc stubs and keep the same original angle without having to confuse a wheel aligner
Right wot ?
The stub itself has an angle to it
I think we have established H series are 7 and Toranas are 9 degrees
I think thats the point of the original questions
Probably so he can decide which stub to use to replace maybe some drum stubs on a H series with some disc stubs and keep the same original angle without having to confuse a wheel aligner
Right wot ?
#31
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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:57 PM
Thank you Datto.
I have LH stubs and brakes on my HR (I think)
I installed them years ago and cant remember if I used HR stubs or Torana stubs with the LH brakes when I fitted them up,so Im pulling it to bits to see what I did.
Another reason for asking is Hoppers stoppers offer a conversion using drum brake stubs.
I am guessing it matters if they are HR or Torana,so I thought (incorrectly) that it would be a simple question with a simple answer,that may have some practical
importance to other forum members.
Thanks eveyone for your input,mods feel free to lock this thread as the question has been answered.
I have LH stubs and brakes on my HR (I think)
I installed them years ago and cant remember if I used HR stubs or Torana stubs with the LH brakes when I fitted them up,so Im pulling it to bits to see what I did.
Another reason for asking is Hoppers stoppers offer a conversion using drum brake stubs.
I am guessing it matters if they are HR or Torana,so I thought (incorrectly) that it would be a simple question with a simple answer,that may have some practical
importance to other forum members.
Thanks eveyone for your input,mods feel free to lock this thread as the question has been answered.
#32
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:41 AM
To check if they are HR stubs check the hub nut size HR and earlier stubs have a smaller hub nut than the later models.
If you have a look at this picture
http://gallery.oldho... axles.jpg.html
you will see what I mean.
I do not want confuse things but I was under the impression that HR stubs were different to all the other stubs.
I would be interested if anyone does have a KPI figure for them.
Cheers Paul.
If you have a look at this picture
http://gallery.oldho... axles.jpg.html
you will see what I mean.
I do not want confuse things but I was under the impression that HR stubs were different to all the other stubs.
I would be interested if anyone does have a KPI figure for them.
Cheers Paul.
#33
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:39 AM
The nut size may be different, but they all use the same bearing kit. Is that the only difference, or is there other differences as well? I have a pair of HR stub axles, but I've never removed the hubs so I can't confirm.
#34
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:44 AM
i know the SAI is 5 3/4 +_ 1/2 but other than a obvious difference in the top section from KPI change.
They are a slightly different shape in the up right section (more straight than curved) and the holes for the steering arms are threaded.
The later models use a nut and bolt so are not threaded.
I am told the nut thread area for the wheel bearing was increased due to the unfortunate problem that had shown up in racing with the
stub snapping at the thread.
Which let the wheel and drum assy come off.
True or not no idea but I have seen a fair few old pictures of three wheeled old Holden's.
Somewhere there is a thread trying to ID stubs by cast number which may have a bit more related information on it about stubs but I am not
sure where it is now.
Cheers Paul.
They are a slightly different shape in the up right section (more straight than curved) and the holes for the steering arms are threaded.
The later models use a nut and bolt so are not threaded.
I am told the nut thread area for the wheel bearing was increased due to the unfortunate problem that had shown up in racing with the
stub snapping at the thread.
Which let the wheel and drum assy come off.
True or not no idea but I have seen a fair few old pictures of three wheeled old Holden's.
Somewhere there is a thread trying to ID stubs by cast number which may have a bit more related information on it about stubs but I am not
sure where it is now.
Cheers Paul.
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:50 AM
Interesting. I must check these things out one day.
#36
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:58 AM
The stub itself has an angle to it
I think we have established H series are 7 and Toranas are 9 degrees
There are several posts stating 7.5 for H series and there are a couple with 8.7 for the Torana.
I for one am still confused as to what the answer is. It would make a significant difference to those contemplating fitting HQ stubs on the Torana.
#37
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:09 PM
Without actually taking a car for an alignment (which will only tell you what the included angle of those particular stubs is now, not what it was when the stubs were new) I can only go by what my most accurate sources of data tell me. What they have told me is that it is highly likely that LC-UC Torana stubs have an included angle of 8.7 degrees ( 8 degrees 42') from the factory. I'll see what I can dig up about other stubs on the weekend, as I won't have spare time before that. It's interesting that the HR may have a different SAI to the HQ stubs, but they also had a lot more positive camber from the factory if I recall correctly.
#38
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:06 PM
After viewing the following image, it appears the HR stub axle has an included angle of 7.5 degrees (7 degrees 30').
Does anybody else have diagrams similar to this for LH-LJ, LH-UC, HK-HG or HQ-WB? They would be very handy for comparisons sake.
Does anybody else have diagrams similar to this for LH-LJ, LH-UC, HK-HG or HQ-WB? They would be very handy for comparisons sake.
#39
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:36 PM
Here are HK and HQ
HK 7 degrees 31"
HQ 7 degrees 30"
So the same basic included angle but HR disc stubs had the bearing center line 1 inch down,
so fitting HK-HQ-WB stubs lowers your HR 1 inch,
Cheers Paul.
HK 7 degrees 31"
HQ 7 degrees 30"
So the same basic included angle but HR disc stubs had the bearing center line 1 inch down,
so fitting HK-HQ-WB stubs lowers your HR 1 inch,
Cheers Paul.
#40
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:12 PM
This is great stuff.
All we need now are the Torana drawings and the set will be complete.
All we need now are the Torana drawings and the set will be complete.
#41
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:12 PM
Brilliant! I just need those pages for the two Torana flavours and I'll be as happy as a pig in shit. It was mainly the dimensions of the control and steering arms I was after, but the stub axle info is a bonus.
#42
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:14 PM
Fantastic.
#43
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:15 PM
love to see one of these on the rts lx or a9x or even uc
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:39 PM
I think it would be nice to see the difference betwen the RTS and non RTS Torries. Just to see how far offset the top ball joint really is.
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:59 PM
Also it would be nice to see the images for the HZ-WB RTS front end.
#46
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:12 PM
This is great stuff.
All we need now are the Torana drawings and the set will be complete.
And you wanted the thread closed... sheesh
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:15 PM
He used to be indecisive, but now he's not so sure.
#48
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:24 PM
LC 6cyl Torana
Edit: Can anyone else read the dimensions? I might have to do a zoom scan or something.
Edit: Can anyone else read the dimensions? I might have to do a zoom scan or something.
Edited by S pack, 05 January 2012 - 10:27 PM.
#49
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:32 PM
i Have the HZ sup and also a LH workshop manual and nether have these images unfortunately.
My understanding with late HX / HZ RTS is that all the arms and stubs are the same it is the chassis that gives the changes.
in geometry.
Cheers Paul.
My understanding with late HX / HZ RTS is that all the arms and stubs are the same it is the chassis that gives the changes.
in geometry.
Cheers Paul.
#50
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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:54 PM
i Have the HZ sup and also a LH workshop manual and nether have these images unfortunately.
My understanding with late HX / HZ RTS is that all the arms and stubs are the same it is the chassis that gives the changes.
in geometry.
Cheers Paul.
Hi Paul
Makes sense as the HZ supplement (highly likely WB will be the same) was only for changes that are specific to that model, otherwise all other servicing/repair info is the same as contained in the HQ workshop manuals.
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