333 replies to this topic

[76lxhatch]

Approx 250mmx140mm exposed filter area, 25mm deep

[ls2lxhatch]

I have created some calculators based on the K&N filter sizing formulas. The K&N formulas are a simple guide, they don't take into account the depth of the filter or the number of pleats.

 

The 250 x 140 panel filters works out around the same area as a 14" x 2" round filter. According to the K&N filter sizing formula the 14" x 2" round filter is a bit small for a 304 ci engine. I think the K&N filter sizing formula is a bit generous.

 

Personally I would use the SS box and fit a K&N filter minder to the intake to monitor the filter performance.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 04 August 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[axistr]

Thanks Andy for the info.

 

Got the flares and bumpers back this week and put them on, it's starting to look like a car again.

 

Had to wash the hatch for the all Holden day on the weekend so decided to give the whole three a scrub up and couldn't resist a good photo opportunity of my three favourite toys.

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[axistr]

Finally got the fuse box in and wired up. Then the bloody air box wouldn't fit in the right spot because the fuse box to hinges clearance took up more room than I thought, bugger, and when I chased air box duct pipes it was hard to find any that had 3" 3/16" hole, most with any bend in them were 76mm 3" so I had to make an adaptor on the lathe to suit. Doing any modifications just takes so much more time to assemble and get right, I am thinking leaving it standard sometime has many advantages.

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[eyepeeler]

The car looks brilliant and will look even better when out cruising on the road.
Well done on what you have done so far, top effort which will result in a car that will turn heads.

[axistr]

I found a better use of some garage door brackets, I shorten and carried out a couple of mods and welded them up to make a new boot battery box.

 

Now I have battery power I was able to test all the circuits which all tested up ok. With my scan tool I was able to trigger fans, fuel pump and various circuits. Should be able to start it in the next few weeks depending on how much time I can spend on it.

 

I install a Odessey AGM battery which has 1200 cca and can be mounted at any angle, no acid leakage problems or corroding terminals, and they can sit for up to two years without the need for recharging. I have the same battery in the hatch which is still going strong after eight years. They are hard to kill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[N/A-PWR]

Looks very secure Lenny,

 

Great Idea.

[axistr]

I got around to finishing off a few things, the power steer hoses done and relocated the charcoal canister out of the way. Mounted the ignition module on the inner splash guard to try to hide a bit more wiring and keep the engine bay tidy and keep it nice and cool and hopefully dry. I also mounted the ignition coil in the old fan motor position. I have primed and cranked the engine and rechecked compressions, to my surprise I had 190 P.S.I exactly on every cylinder. I couldn't find in any books what these VR-VS Clubsport engines compression test results should be, only the early 308 HC engines. 150-170 P.S.I

 

I have oil pressure, fuel pressure and pulse & spark, and no fault codes are coming up so she is almost ready to roll. Just need to double check the timing and leads, when I fitted the engine I knocked off a few leads and I think I might have a couple crossed as it tried to start on a couple of cylinders. Now this all sounds easy but to get the dizzy cap off and check to leads it a real bugger with the E.F.I manifold, so when I have a bit more time on my hands I should hear it running.  

 

 

   

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[UCgazman]

Nice coil location, stealthy!

[axistr]

This mod may interest those with LH-LX-UC sedans, After fitting the new spoiler it made the boot lid much heavier. I upped the torsion bars to compensate but when its opened up half way you have got to hang onto it or it bangs hard on the original full open stops. I am also installing a remote electric boot open solenoid on the lock. I decided to install a gas strut to give it a bit extra push and slow things down, 

 

I can now open it with the slightest of touches and at around 1/4 open it extends to the full open position slowly and tops out on the strut just before the original stops, No bangs and I don't have to be worried about damaging the spoiler, boot lid or hinges. Nice and smooooth    

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[SmacT]

Ha ha - another top idea Lenny. I just dummy fitted my boot spoiler and was wondering what to do there, now I know! :-) 

[Covert]

great idea with the boot, especially when ya hands are full 

[axistr]

Ok it's time to start the engine but it didn't want to start. I checked all the leads and firing order all ok. I have good spark at every spark plug lead. So I carried out a compression test and had 190 P.S.I on number 6 and 195 on the other 7 cylinders. It is firing on number 7 cylinder but that's it. I thought 190 P.S.I was high, I was expecting around 160-170 but can't seam to find what a VR 304 clubsport engine should have.

 

I don't know the full history of the engine as I purchased it second hand and have only done a partial strip to check the basic condition which all looked ok. I replaced the crank bearings and rear seal. and while I was at it I checked out the cam and put in a new cam chain and sprockets as it was stretched a bit. I used a noid light and have an injector pulse at every injector electrical plug. I have even checked the ignition timing while cranking and indicates 8 degrees BTDC. I borrowed a fuel pressure gauge to check the pressure (haven't checked it yet ) but I had a good flow out the return when I bleed the system initially.

 

I got the injectors serviced so time ago when I did the partial strip, Surely I couldn't have 7 blocked injectors. It was three years ago since I have had the cam out and I am 99 % sure its right but I am starting to run out of things to check.

 

I have good spark at every cylinder.

Timing is close enough to start and lines up on no 1 T.D.C at 8 degrees.

Compression is right up there.

I have injector pulse at all 8 injector electrical plugs.

 

There isn't much left to test, The spark plugs didn't seam to be very wet maybe just not the correct mixture. The scan tool isn't showing any fault codes and all looks normal in this department. I can even see the injector milliseconds pulse.

 

But the weird thing is it fires on number 7 cylinder and if I pull the lead off number 7 there is nothing happening. No 7 is also the last cylinder before the fuel exits to the return hose.?

 

Any suggestions or has anyone experienced this problem before, or anyone know for sure what the compressions should be. I believe the engine is standard.

 

It's more than likely something simple just cant see the forest for the trees.  

 

On the other side I got back some parts I sent out for chroming. I had a spare wiper motor so I decided to get the parts chromed on it also and recon both. The wife said the spare wiper motor is going on e-bay to try and recoup some of the chroming money as this car is really starting to eat up cash.     

[axistr]

Woops forgot to add the photo.

 

 

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[UCgazman]

Couple of squirts of throttle body cleaner down the throttle body then crank it over, if it runs for a few seconds at least you can narrow it down to being a fuel issue...

[76lxhatch]

Ignition is commanded by the ECU but controlled by the module so if its in that department you won't see any fault codes. Do you get a good pulse with the timing light on all leads?

 

Also it could just be something like the IAC is shut and needs to reset, I think holding the throttle to the floor will activate the flood clear mode as well as open the IAC and try to reset it once started? Have seen one of these look for all intents and purposes like it had major head gasket issues and it just needed clearing out.

 

Guessing you haven't fallen for the Holden ignition switch problem causing it to cut power once you start cranking?

 

Do you have access to the GMH troubleshooting procedures, they're pretty good at covering everything in a good order

[axistr]

Thanks for the tips guys, 

 

Garth I give it a small shot of either not much but nothing happened. I don't like using either to much as I have seen the results of over fuelling with this stuff, nasty when it cracks piston heads.

 

76LXhatch I did fit a new IAC motor and also used full throttle to ensure it had plenty of air, I don't know if that reset it or not tho.

The spark is very good, blue and jumps a 10 mm gap. The timing light triggers constant and I also checked it on the opposite cylinder No 4 and it also triggered at 8 degrees.

 

All my spark checking has only been checked during cranking because it wont start. It's just weird how it only fires on number 7 cylinder.

 

I might try giving it a bit longer suck on either just to check if it is a fuel problem and check the fuel pressure with the borrowed gauge.

 

I have a few old workshop manuals that I will dig out but no GMH manuals for VR-VS. I still can't find out what the compression should be on these engines, only the early HT prefix engines, and they are listed as 150 + or - 20 P.S.I and that is with 9.2-1 compression, mine is listed at 8.4-1 ?

 

Even if I got the cam timing out a tooth I should get a backfire or something to indicate a timing problem. Thats why it would be handy to know what the compression should be.

[76lxhatch]

Can't imagine the cam timing is wrong with that compression, yes static should be around 8.5:1 but the PSI reading depends on cam, rings etc. The IAC won't reset until its running I believe but of course need some air to get started. A VN/VP manual is close enough for troubleshooting purposes if you have one of them - someone still has mine on loan :-(

 

You can check all 8 leads with the timing light just to make sure they're all firing (and check the rotor for order, although you've probably done that a dozen times already!). As for fuel the quick check is to keep cycling the key until you hear the regulator passing excess pressure, if you don't hear that then maybe the high pressure pump isn't working - I think there's an earth for the pump that is a common trip-up in conversions. Also if you're using the original relay setup I recall at least one or two important relays need to be 5 pin ones.

 

The injectors are batch fired so even if some are not working right you should get enough fuel to get something happening eventually. It always comes to down to fuel, air, spark so if you've got them all then its just timing... (haha sounds easy...!)

[axistr]

Thanks 76LXhatch,

 

 Correct me if I am wrong but if you have advanced cam timing you can get higher compression and retarded cam timing you generally get a lower reading to a point of course, timing out to far and you will get a massive drop in compression.

At least with compression reading that I have we can safety rule out gaskets, rings, pistons and valves being a problem. I have oil pressure so all the lifters must be pumped up by now.

 

Before trying to start the engine I cycled the ignition around a dozen times and put the return hose in a clean clear container to bleed all the air out and make sure the system was flushed. I had a good flow and allowed two litres to flow through.

 

I have checked spark at every spark plug lead and have good even constant spark at all. I can only see the timing marks lining up on number 1 & 4 with the timing light, trying to check the rest is more difficult because they will be 90, 180 & 270 degrees further around the harmonic balancer. I would properly see the 2 cylinders firing 180 degrees at the bottom with the light.

 

Yep I am using the 5 pin relays where needed and wired them in to suit. I triggered all the relays on the bench when I wired up the new fuse box. I think from memory I have three in the system. With batch fire injection you would think I would get something unless I have 7 injectors not injecting. I checked every injector plug for pulse just to be sure even tho its batch fire.

 

I am going out to the shed now to check what the fuel pressure is, I know I have good flow but it will eliminate one more possible cause.         

[Rockoz]

One of my old neighbours had a similar problem and it turned out to be the injectors.

He put a set of bigger injectors in and it wouldnt start.

Went back to the old injectors and away it went.

Spent a lot of time trying to figure it out because the assumption was that it couldnt be the injectors.

[LS1LX]

Check you have correct fuel pressure and you have 12 volts at coil while cranking. If you have those 2 it will run, if timing is out it will just run rough.

You can lift the fuel rail while cranking and see if the injectors are spraying, but you will need another set of helping hands

Edited by LS1LX, 27 September 2014 - 10:54 AM.

[ls2lxhatch]

It would be worth confirming that the distributor is not out by 180 degrees.

[76lxhatch]

Fuel pressure is correct if the regulator is passing fuel, that may change once running but for the initial startup unless the regulator is stuffed it will be 3 bar. Probably depends on the cam as to whether being mis-timed would affect the compression readings, but its obviously near enough so it won't stop it from running.

 

If all the plugs are firing in place (this is why I mentioned the timing light - can't make any timing measurements but the inductive pickup tells you the plugs are actually firing inside the cylinder under compression) and in the correct order then it would suggest injectors. Could be all blocked up from fuel varnish etc? Have seen some pretty bad ones before, maybe try swapping number 7 which seems to be working with another and see if the result moves around?

[axistr]

Thanks guys,

 

I have good fuel pressure, pump running during cranking  reads 335 k.p.a and drops back to around 285 when not cranking and holds steady for more than an hour. Manual says 300 + or - 20 k.p.a  and 250 k.p.a + or - 20 engine running. So mine is in the upper limits which I would expect from a new pump.

 

The spark is excellent and will easily jump a 10 mm gap at the spark plug lead. I have 12 volts power supply at the coil.

 

Andy I put the engine on Number one compression stroke using the old finger in the hole trick to make sure, and the timing marks line up on the harmonic balancer, lifted the cap, rotor lines up on number one spark plug lead. Went clockwise around the cap to ensure correct firing order. The timing light flashes on 8 degrees B.T.D.C and I also checked number 4 cylinder as was the same.

 

I removed number one plug after cranking but didn't look wet. I used an old vacuum gauge which read 2" during cranking, throttle closed. cranking speed is only 220 r.p.m and the vacuum gauge did fluctuate a bit when number 7 cylinder is firing, this maybe due to the slight pickup speed during cranking.

 

I think I might have to lift the injectors and see if or how they are squirting next. Starting to piss me off now. I hate pulling apart things that I have spent so much time making sure every thing is close as I can to perfect.  

 

 

 

On a better note at least both wiper motors all work. I plugged them into the SLR harness plug but both didn't work. I quickly found that when I fitted the UC stork and wired it in I put the earth wire in the wrong hole in the 6 pin plug. Swapped the wire all good now and both tested OK.

 

More problems so solve The fuel gauge was reading full and temp gauge reading 1/4. The old pressure was also reading high. last week they all seamed to be ok. I have a spare dash so I swapped out the gauge voltage stabiliser and they have now all come good. Its been a real electrical experience today, but I don't think the engine not starting is an electrical problem.

 

  

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[Statler]

PM sent Lenny.