Way back b4 ANDRA changed the super stock bracket there was a class called A/S which had to be flat tappet cam, 750 carb non stroker and max of 1/16th overbore, running 9.5 lb/cube 9" tyres max and all wiring fitted and working including all the doors and windows ect. Everything the car came with had to be there and work. The early headed 308s made over 600 moroso or weight shifted HP in this class. So 450 tops........yeah right been done and surpassed way back in the early 90's
Maximum Hp!!
Started by
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, May 31 2006 03:36 PM
30 replies to this topic
#27
WhiteA9XS
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Posted 20 April 2009 - 01:35 AM
mine was dynoed a few weeks ago made 403 hp , standard early manifold and mechanical fuel pump ... these are the restricting 2 factors ..
#28
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Posted 24 April 2009 - 01:00 PM
There was a funny thread on a 400hp stock head/stroke 253 not long ago.
I don't see much probs around the 380-400 mark without an unlimited budget or redline.
I don't see much probs around the 380-400 mark without an unlimited budget or redline.
Edited by ALX76, 24 April 2009 - 01:04 PM.
#29
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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:30 PM
I have posted this before on ToughV8, so some of you may have already seen it but for those that have not.
Its a bit of a read but it may be worth it for a few of you
Here is a bit of acquired information from back in 1994 when we were racing.
Some N/A times and some N2O times amongst this.
The car was a mates car and I was asked to help tune it for him and sort a few issues it had out and from that I ended up at the drags for every street meet and pro meet for the next couple of years.
To start with it was running a 308 with flat tops, L34 spec heads and a crane 286 cam, 2500 rpm stall
From what records I have on this package it was running
12.998 ET at 106.00mph 1.928 60ft 8.325 ET/84.06mph
with a few things fixed it managed
12.780 ET at 106.88mph 1.857 60ft 8.165 ET/61.37mph best after backing off before 1/2 track (it ran this on a 12.890 dial in)
This motor was then sold off to fund a race motor from a WA racer at the time that was running low 11s in a VH commodore.
This engine had group A rods, forged high comp pistons,Crane 300A cam
the trick heads and valley I mentioned above.
In the Torana it managed a
11.771 ET 112.21mph 1.637 60ft 7.430 ET/91.60mph best time,with a best all up of
1.632 60ft 7.426ET/92.53mph half track and then it blew up after only 28 passes on it.
Because we were racing for season points by this time we needed a motor fast for the next meeting, which was 23 days away.
Being the huge budget team we were I donated a 60 thou 308 engine I had out the back and from that we built a junker and went racing again.
It was only supposed to be in there for 1 meeting but after the results from that meeting with a mates borrowed heads and the locating of a cheap gas kit we decided to see what it would take to kill this motor.
I can not find all the details at the moment but the basics were
308, std 60 thou low comp pistons, std rods, ARP rod bolts,std crank, as the bottom end, anti pump up lifters, H/D push rods, Y/T 5010 roller rockers,custom hand made inlet manifold (1 of 2 made by George Bailey) 4000 rpm stall, Trimatic improved by Peter Versmer. 9 inch diff. In a LC 4dr Torana that weighed 2700lbs.
This much stayed the same but there were other changes as we went along.
To start with we ran the heads from the race motor which had Cleveland inlet valves (so we were told) not sure about exhaust valve size with out my other notes, huge port work and the combustion chambers had been welded up behind the spark plug hole to enhance the flame front direction.
With those heads on and a Isky 285M cam and a 750 holley it ran a best of
12.089 ET 110.29mph with a 1.726 60 ft 7.666 ET/89.64mph half track with a best half track mph on the day of 90mph and 111.52 mph full track this was with a N/A set up. This was also with 3.90 diff ratio on 24x8 inch slicks.
At the next meeting we decided to fit a N2O kit.
With 150hp of N2O added, it ran a best of
11.048 ET 120.32mph with a 1.612 60ft time 7.022 ET/98.88 mph half track.
This was with a 650 holley fitted not the 750.
The next meeting we ran a crane CCH 314 cam and no gas and no other changes and it ran a best of
12.145 ET 106.13mph (after backing off) with a 1.707 60 ft time 7.678 ET/89.19mph half track (best on the day of 89.72) and , average mph was 110 mph with a best of 110.70mph for the day.
The next meeting we ran real bad which ended up being because of the fact that one of the heads was cracked and was leaking water in to the inlet port.
At the next meeting we ran borrowed heads from a mates genuine L34 Torana which had L34 valves and mild port work.
No gas and it ran a best of
12.179 ET 110.15 mph it ran a 1.776 60ft time with a best on the day of
1.745 7.816 ET/ 89.38mph half track with a best on the day of 7.744 ET/89.53 mph
End of part 1
Its a bit of a read but it may be worth it for a few of you
Here is a bit of acquired information from back in 1994 when we were racing.
Some N/A times and some N2O times amongst this.
The car was a mates car and I was asked to help tune it for him and sort a few issues it had out and from that I ended up at the drags for every street meet and pro meet for the next couple of years.
To start with it was running a 308 with flat tops, L34 spec heads and a crane 286 cam, 2500 rpm stall
From what records I have on this package it was running
12.998 ET at 106.00mph 1.928 60ft 8.325 ET/84.06mph
with a few things fixed it managed
12.780 ET at 106.88mph 1.857 60ft 8.165 ET/61.37mph best after backing off before 1/2 track (it ran this on a 12.890 dial in)
This motor was then sold off to fund a race motor from a WA racer at the time that was running low 11s in a VH commodore.
This engine had group A rods, forged high comp pistons,Crane 300A cam
the trick heads and valley I mentioned above.
In the Torana it managed a
11.771 ET 112.21mph 1.637 60ft 7.430 ET/91.60mph best time,with a best all up of
1.632 60ft 7.426ET/92.53mph half track and then it blew up after only 28 passes on it.
Because we were racing for season points by this time we needed a motor fast for the next meeting, which was 23 days away.
Being the huge budget team we were I donated a 60 thou 308 engine I had out the back and from that we built a junker and went racing again.
It was only supposed to be in there for 1 meeting but after the results from that meeting with a mates borrowed heads and the locating of a cheap gas kit we decided to see what it would take to kill this motor.
I can not find all the details at the moment but the basics were
308, std 60 thou low comp pistons, std rods, ARP rod bolts,std crank, as the bottom end, anti pump up lifters, H/D push rods, Y/T 5010 roller rockers,custom hand made inlet manifold (1 of 2 made by George Bailey) 4000 rpm stall, Trimatic improved by Peter Versmer. 9 inch diff. In a LC 4dr Torana that weighed 2700lbs.
This much stayed the same but there were other changes as we went along.
To start with we ran the heads from the race motor which had Cleveland inlet valves (so we were told) not sure about exhaust valve size with out my other notes, huge port work and the combustion chambers had been welded up behind the spark plug hole to enhance the flame front direction.
With those heads on and a Isky 285M cam and a 750 holley it ran a best of
12.089 ET 110.29mph with a 1.726 60 ft 7.666 ET/89.64mph half track with a best half track mph on the day of 90mph and 111.52 mph full track this was with a N/A set up. This was also with 3.90 diff ratio on 24x8 inch slicks.
At the next meeting we decided to fit a N2O kit.
With 150hp of N2O added, it ran a best of
11.048 ET 120.32mph with a 1.612 60ft time 7.022 ET/98.88 mph half track.
This was with a 650 holley fitted not the 750.
The next meeting we ran a crane CCH 314 cam and no gas and no other changes and it ran a best of
12.145 ET 106.13mph (after backing off) with a 1.707 60 ft time 7.678 ET/89.19mph half track (best on the day of 89.72) and , average mph was 110 mph with a best of 110.70mph for the day.
The next meeting we ran real bad which ended up being because of the fact that one of the heads was cracked and was leaking water in to the inlet port.
At the next meeting we ran borrowed heads from a mates genuine L34 Torana which had L34 valves and mild port work.
No gas and it ran a best of
12.179 ET 110.15 mph it ran a 1.776 60ft time with a best on the day of
1.745 7.816 ET/ 89.38mph half track with a best on the day of 7.744 ET/89.53 mph
End of part 1
#30
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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:31 PM
Part 2
I donated some heads that I had picked up from the rubbish tip while dropping of rubbish one day.
These were the ported with std valve heads, from the day we fitted them we always referred to these heads as the RTS heads (Rubbish tip specials)
So for the next meeting we ran std valved heads that had been ported.
N/A it ran a best of
12.472 ET 109.48mph 1.895 60ft 8.006 ET/88.32mph
With 150hp N2O it ran
11.419 ET 116.73mph 1.782 60ft 7.263 ET/99.36mph with the best 60ft/1/2 being
11.776 ET 99.66mph 1.624 60ft 7.042 ET/96.78mph (backed off before half track)
For the next meeting we fitted 3.50 diff gears and no other changes and did a
11.119 ET 123.28mph 1.775 60ft 7.153 ET/99.70mph with a head gasket that blew at 3/4 track. so after replacing the head gasket we did the 3rd qualifier and got a
11.041 ET 122.44mph 1.633 60ft 7.052 ET/98.91mph with the N2O running out at 3/4 track and top qualified which ended up being the best for the day.
Because we top qualified we got a solo in the first round so we decided to see what a N/A run would be (even left the timing set for the gas).
It ran a huge.
13.029 ET 107.14mph 2.085 60ft 8.439 ET/85.96mph
For the next meeting we ran N/A for the first two runs and ran a best of
12.749 ET 107.27mph 1.913 60ft 8.168 ET/86.50mph
for the third qualifier we ran the gas 150hp N2O and did a
11.323 ET 120.80mph 1.784 60ft 7.284 ET/97.86
Then we decided to up the N2O to 200hp and did a
11.014 ET 122.95mph 1.659 60ft 7.045 ET/99.83 this was on 23.5x7.5 inch slicks for
this last pass and at 6500rpm through the top end.
For the next and last meeting for the season we started with a N/A for the first 2 qualifiers on a 36 degree temp day and managed a best of
13.018 ET 106.63mph 2.060 60ft 8.400 ET/85.40 not good enough to get in to the field. So then we ran 200hp for the 3rd qualifier and did a
11.006 ET 125.00mph 1.749 60ft 7.093 ET/101.09 with a back of from the line because of wheel spin.
For the rest of the meeting we ran N/A and got a best time of
12.759 ET 107.52mph 1.907 60ft 8.169 ET/86.19 and got to the finals
Now we had to make a decision to make a 10 second pass maybe in the Torana on the gas or a meeting win.
The answer bugger it 250 hp N2O and go for it.
The result blown head gasket on 2 cylinders and from what we know a 11.2 pass and a lose in the race.
We do not know for sure what it actually did because we never got a time slip for that pass and the video that we taped every pass with cut out at 1/2 track. Believe it or not.
So close to the 10 second pass but not there, we had to settle for a LC 4dr that had done 200kmh in a 1/4 of a mile.
None of these were ever dyno tested at all, it was all just on track testing with the aim being that elusive 10 second pass and a whole lot of laughs on the way.
In the end the motor was removed from the Torana after the 250HP experiment and it was put in to a Gemini coupe super sdn which weighed 2371lbs as my mate had decided to step up a bit.
(we actually told the commentators at Ravenswood to say that it was a Holden coupe not a Gemini. and I have that on one of the videos we recorded. LOL)
The Holden coupe had been racing before with a 350 in it but had been pulled apart and was in a million pieces when purchased.
It was reassembled and converted to suit the 308 in my mates drive way and then my carport. A diff and rear suspension was fabricated by Phil Purser. It ran 3.90 9 inch and 30 inch slicks. Then the car was tech inspected the night before its race debut and passed.
Its reward to us was to split a inlet gasket on run up that night.
So in the morning we changed the gaskets and drained the milky oil from it and took it racing.
The car was campaigned for two meetings, then at the last meeting it snapped the L/H axle in the burn out of its 6th pass for that meeting.
The junker engine managed a
10.349 ET 128.75mph 1.465 60ft 6.558 ET/104.30mph
best 60 ft was 1.423 this was with 150 HP of gas added in that car.
We took the car for a test and tune with a new axle and it managed a best of
10.645 ET 124.48mph 1.509 60 ft 6.738 ET/101.72mph with 150 HP of gas and to see what it could do N/A it ran a best all up of
12.367 ET 108.43mph 1.863 60 ft 7.900 ET/90.03mph those 30 inch slicks were just to much for it and it ran through the traps at 5400rpm.
There are pictures of the car here
http://gallery.oldho...m/HQ_SS/The LC/
If anyone has any pictures of this car from when it was racing in the 90s I would be interested in a copy of them.
We have heaps of video footage but bugger all pictures.
Cheers Paul.
I donated some heads that I had picked up from the rubbish tip while dropping of rubbish one day.
These were the ported with std valve heads, from the day we fitted them we always referred to these heads as the RTS heads (Rubbish tip specials)
So for the next meeting we ran std valved heads that had been ported.
N/A it ran a best of
12.472 ET 109.48mph 1.895 60ft 8.006 ET/88.32mph
With 150hp N2O it ran
11.419 ET 116.73mph 1.782 60ft 7.263 ET/99.36mph with the best 60ft/1/2 being
11.776 ET 99.66mph 1.624 60ft 7.042 ET/96.78mph (backed off before half track)
For the next meeting we fitted 3.50 diff gears and no other changes and did a
11.119 ET 123.28mph 1.775 60ft 7.153 ET/99.70mph with a head gasket that blew at 3/4 track. so after replacing the head gasket we did the 3rd qualifier and got a
11.041 ET 122.44mph 1.633 60ft 7.052 ET/98.91mph with the N2O running out at 3/4 track and top qualified which ended up being the best for the day.
Because we top qualified we got a solo in the first round so we decided to see what a N/A run would be (even left the timing set for the gas).
It ran a huge.
13.029 ET 107.14mph 2.085 60ft 8.439 ET/85.96mph
For the next meeting we ran N/A for the first two runs and ran a best of
12.749 ET 107.27mph 1.913 60ft 8.168 ET/86.50mph
for the third qualifier we ran the gas 150hp N2O and did a
11.323 ET 120.80mph 1.784 60ft 7.284 ET/97.86
Then we decided to up the N2O to 200hp and did a
11.014 ET 122.95mph 1.659 60ft 7.045 ET/99.83 this was on 23.5x7.5 inch slicks for
this last pass and at 6500rpm through the top end.
For the next and last meeting for the season we started with a N/A for the first 2 qualifiers on a 36 degree temp day and managed a best of
13.018 ET 106.63mph 2.060 60ft 8.400 ET/85.40 not good enough to get in to the field. So then we ran 200hp for the 3rd qualifier and did a
11.006 ET 125.00mph 1.749 60ft 7.093 ET/101.09 with a back of from the line because of wheel spin.
For the rest of the meeting we ran N/A and got a best time of
12.759 ET 107.52mph 1.907 60ft 8.169 ET/86.19 and got to the finals
Now we had to make a decision to make a 10 second pass maybe in the Torana on the gas or a meeting win.
The answer bugger it 250 hp N2O and go for it.
The result blown head gasket on 2 cylinders and from what we know a 11.2 pass and a lose in the race.
We do not know for sure what it actually did because we never got a time slip for that pass and the video that we taped every pass with cut out at 1/2 track. Believe it or not.
So close to the 10 second pass but not there, we had to settle for a LC 4dr that had done 200kmh in a 1/4 of a mile.
None of these were ever dyno tested at all, it was all just on track testing with the aim being that elusive 10 second pass and a whole lot of laughs on the way.
In the end the motor was removed from the Torana after the 250HP experiment and it was put in to a Gemini coupe super sdn which weighed 2371lbs as my mate had decided to step up a bit.
(we actually told the commentators at Ravenswood to say that it was a Holden coupe not a Gemini. and I have that on one of the videos we recorded. LOL)
The Holden coupe had been racing before with a 350 in it but had been pulled apart and was in a million pieces when purchased.
It was reassembled and converted to suit the 308 in my mates drive way and then my carport. A diff and rear suspension was fabricated by Phil Purser. It ran 3.90 9 inch and 30 inch slicks. Then the car was tech inspected the night before its race debut and passed.
Its reward to us was to split a inlet gasket on run up that night.
So in the morning we changed the gaskets and drained the milky oil from it and took it racing.
The car was campaigned for two meetings, then at the last meeting it snapped the L/H axle in the burn out of its 6th pass for that meeting.
The junker engine managed a
10.349 ET 128.75mph 1.465 60ft 6.558 ET/104.30mph
best 60 ft was 1.423 this was with 150 HP of gas added in that car.
We took the car for a test and tune with a new axle and it managed a best of
10.645 ET 124.48mph 1.509 60 ft 6.738 ET/101.72mph with 150 HP of gas and to see what it could do N/A it ran a best all up of
12.367 ET 108.43mph 1.863 60 ft 7.900 ET/90.03mph those 30 inch slicks were just to much for it and it ran through the traps at 5400rpm.
There are pictures of the car here
http://gallery.oldho...m/HQ_SS/The LC/
If anyone has any pictures of this car from when it was racing in the 90s I would be interested in a copy of them.
We have heaps of video footage but bugger all pictures.
Cheers Paul.
#31
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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:50 PM
A few HP figures to go with this.
The big race motor N/A made a best of 310 moroso rwhp.
The junker with the race motor heads on made a best of 285 moroso rwhp.
The junker with the L34 heads on made a best of 285 moroso rwhp.
The junker with the RTS heads on it made a best of 270 moroso rwhp.
On the gas it made a best of 340 moroso rwhp with a 100hp of gas added to it.
A best of 360 moroso rwhp with a 150hp of gas added to it.
We did not run the L34 heads with gas, so no numbers for that setup.
With the RTS heads on it it made a best of 380 moroso rwhp with a 150hp of gas added to it.
With the RTS heads on it it made a best of 405 moroso rwhp with a 200hp of gas added to it.
Not sure of a real figure for the 250hp gas pass unfortunately.
Cheers Paul.
The big race motor N/A made a best of 310 moroso rwhp.
The junker with the race motor heads on made a best of 285 moroso rwhp.
The junker with the L34 heads on made a best of 285 moroso rwhp.
The junker with the RTS heads on it made a best of 270 moroso rwhp.
On the gas it made a best of 340 moroso rwhp with a 100hp of gas added to it.
A best of 360 moroso rwhp with a 150hp of gas added to it.
We did not run the L34 heads with gas, so no numbers for that setup.
With the RTS heads on it it made a best of 380 moroso rwhp with a 150hp of gas added to it.
With the RTS heads on it it made a best of 405 moroso rwhp with a 200hp of gas added to it.
Not sure of a real figure for the 250hp gas pass unfortunately.
Cheers Paul.
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