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M21 Shift Rods

Started by hanra , Feb 25 2012 10:32 PM

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17 replies to this topic

#1 hanra

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:32 PM

What is going wrong here....

From what I can tell this M21 is most likely out of a HQ being 72 cast coded. The shifter...... well.... I think Ive asked that before and most of you said it was a Torana shifter? I remember when I took all this apart it all seemed quite tight, but thought Id sort it come time to re-install...Which is now upon me...

Ok. So the rods are fouling on each other pretty badly. The long rod to me, seems like it needs a bend in it? Its quite straight. The levers on the selector fork are fitted correctly according to the manual. The adjusters however look home made? Well certainly different to what they look like in the manual.

Anyways.... Have I go the right shifter? Whats going on with the bloody rods.... And whats the G.O. with the adjusters???

Posted Image

Edited by hanra, 25 February 2012 - 10:37 PM.

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#2 S pack

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:09 PM

The adjusters are home made abortions and the 3rd & 4th gear shift rod should have a bend in it to bring it up and over the 1st & 2nd gear selector lever . Looks like it has been straightened out to suit the bodgy adjusters. I'm not sure if LH/LX is different to LJ but AFAIK the 1st & 2nd gear selector lever should be installed the same way as the 3rd & 4th selector lever.

Will post a pic soon.

Cheers
Dave

Edited by S pack, 25 February 2012 - 11:10 PM.

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#3 S pack

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:11 AM

As far as I can remember the shifter rods in the pics are from a 1981 WB.
Posted Image

Note the fitting the 3rd & 4th gear shift rod screws into and connects to the selector lever is made of plastic. The plastic fitting was used on later g/boxes eg WB & Commodore. Not sure what year the plastic fitting was introduced but 1973 LJ's and probably HQ's had a metal fitting with a lock nut and washer on either side.
Posted Image

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#4 hanra

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 11:03 AM

Ive been going off this from the GMH Manual.

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#5 S pack

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:08 PM

Hi Brad

Yeah as I said I'm not sure if the LH shift rod setup is different to other Holdens. If that diagram is for LH then follow that.

Cheers
Dave

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#6 _My74LH_

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:34 PM

Here is a pic of mine its small but you get the idea.
Posted Image

Edited by My74LH, 26 February 2012 - 12:43 PM.

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#7 _HQ SS_

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:06 PM

I have just emailed this to you Brad but thought that others may be interested in it all as well.
I have found that I had a picture of a few shifters online here
http://gallery.oldho...ters 2.jpg.html
They are labeled as to what was decided at the time what they were out of.
The one labeled as Torana is a LC and maybe LJ shifter going by the fact it is held together on the main pin with a screw
as compared to the later shifters that were cir-clipped on each end of the pin.
I have also added pictures from my parts books HQ-Z LC-H and V series showing the shifters here.
http://gallery.oldho...4spd/?g2_page=2
Cheers Paul.

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#8 hanra

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:59 PM

I guess Ill have to look at getting this kit then....

http://www.rarespares.net.au/rarespares/ProductPage.aspx?product=GSLK

And here is my shifter, its actually held together with a screw, just that rubber anti vibration thing seems a bit un-torana?

Posted Image

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#9 hanra

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:13 AM

Do these look right????

http://cgi.ebay.com....E:X:AAQ:AU:1123

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#10 _HQ SS_

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:31 PM

They look right but so do your rods they just need a bit of a bend to bring them back in to the right shape.
From memory the differnt rods are the same length but are just bent differently
Basically just tweek them a bit at a time until they just fit on at both ends easily with out having to be forced.
Do them in a vice though not on the shifter or linkages.
If your shifter is the one with the screw in it it is a early shifter that I would say someone wanted a shorter reach on.
So they cut it down and then used the later model joiner on it.
But I am not sure just when they started using the circliped type shifters as I do have one piece shaft ones that are circlip
type.
Also just to add a bit more confusion to things I also have shifters with the main upright shaft chromed and some with painted black shafts.
So as to what is standard for what I still have not worked out.
If anyone can input if there cars are chrome or black and what they are fitted too it will be greatly appreciated.
If you can bare with me untill the weekend I can hopefully get some spare time to lay out all the different shifters and parts I have
and then photograph them and then list just what I know each item is from what and question mark the unknowns.
Cheers Paul.

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#11 hanra

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:35 PM

Cheers Paul,

My shifter was chromed but it was flacking off so I re-painted it.

Well I bought those shift rods anyways, so Ill have a tinker and get something to work. Ill also replace those home made linkages.

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#12 _HQ SS_

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:04 PM

Ok I finally took a few pictures of the various combinations of shifter linkages going by the parts books and what I have.
I have listed them accordingly starting on the botom of the second page and continuing on the third page here.
http://gallery.oldho...4spd/?g2_page=2
From the parts book pics LH-X is the same as HJ.
I have also added a updated image of the actual side linkages and a couple showing just how badly the shifters can get bent
when the lower brace weld brakes.
The weld i am talking about is in this picture
http://gallery.oldho...eld 01.jpg.html
I also took a few shots to show where the parts of the shifter can get worn, if you would like me to add them just let me know.
If anyone has HG actual 4spd shifter or parts book pictures I would greatly appreciate a copy or at least confirmation that they are
the same (or not) as HQ LC-J.
If anyone can add anything to this please do.
Cheers Paul.

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#13 hanra

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:19 PM

Good one paul! Some great shots there. Looks like my shifter may have snapped before as it appears to have been welded up..?
Surely with all this info I can figure it all out!!

Ive got a HK Parts book if that would help?

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#14 _HQ SS_

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:38 PM

Thanks for the offer with the HK parts book.
I have the HK and HT ones but no HG one.
Cheers Paul.

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#15 hanra

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

Right.... So I went and bought another set of shift rods and another 4spd shifter as mine was missing shims and just didn't seem right.....?

I've also bought some RSP adjusters also.

Posted Image

The rods don't foul now!!!

Posted Image

Now I'm doing an alignment and adjustment of the shifter and rods.

Question..... As I don't have this tool:

Posted Image

I'm wondering how the shifter should be set up?

Is this correct? Or should the 1st 2nd lever be more centered on the gap in the housing frame? Don't pay to much attention to the shifter... The previous owner has primed it by the looks? I'll strip it n get it re zinc'd.

Posted Image

Edited by hanra, 08 July 2012 - 01:42 PM.

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#16 S pack

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 02:04 PM

That selector alignment looks good Brad. I've never used one of those alignment tools, didn't even know one existed.
Just set them up with the box in neutral for all gears and line up the selectors so the stick moves freely through the gates.
Make sure all gears are selecting properly (make minor adjustments if required) and your done.

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#17 hanra

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 02:16 PM

Cheers Dave, I was just sort of thinking when going from 2nd to 3rd you sort of have forward momentum with the stick, the way it is now, you really need to stop in the neutral position and then go across to the right for 3rd. I though perhaps if 1st 2nd was a little more centred then you could sort of carry that momentum through and then go across to 3rd????

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#18 S pack

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 07:35 PM

Cheers Dave, I was just sort of thinking when going from 2nd to 3rd you sort of have forward momentum with the stick, the way it is now, you really need to stop in the neutral position and then go across to the right for 3rd. I though perhaps if 1st 2nd was a little more centred then you could sort of carry that momentum through and then go across to 3rd????

That's why they call it a 'H' pattern, the shifter movement through the gates is like a 'H'.
You don't actually have to stop when shifting up and down the gears the shift movement just seems to flow.
When you get used to it you'll find you can do some pretty fast gear changes.
Oh, maybe that's only possible with the shorter LC/LJ stick. :driving: