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Harry Firth V8 XU-1 Beasty


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#26 Tyre biter

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:51 PM

...Around the time of the release of the HQ, Holden were evaluating a 454 powered monaro. They felt that the Monaro was losing it's muscle car image, and that this would restore it.

The other engine that was under consideration was the 400 sbc.

Posted Image


...Engineering had no involvement in this car - no talk of a 400ci or 454 by any of the Engineering personel. Biggest engine I ever saw in Engineering was a 427 and that was back in the HT days....


I love this history stuff - wish I knew more or had a friend 'on the inside' but I am left with reading things like Steve Bedwell's book; "Holden vs Ford" where he claims the 454 was considered for Old Man Emu (turquoise HQ) but "logic prevalied and the selected power plant for the turquoise styling exercise was the 400 inch small block V8". He also quotes Leo Pruneau's recollection of the styling exercise including a movie of the car to the John Williamson song - hence 'old man emu' but goes on to say Pruneau claimed the car was never built past the clay mock-ups (2). I wonder though, why do you 'select' a engine for a clay full sized model - surely they don't fit an engine inside one because it's not like it has a engine bay let alone a chassis right?

The book also says the above article above was from a 1985 Street Machine issue however the photo of the yellow 350/Z was from a 1990 Street Machine issue and reports the photo was taken in a carpark of a car resembling Old Man Emu save for the vents in the rear quarter - no further detail on where or when the photo was taken. Bedwell wonders if indeed a genuine 'old man emu' did emerge from Fisherman's Bend and not withstanding his claims an engine was 'selected' for the car, I guess we have to go with Prumeau's account that none were made - I can't imagine he has got anything to loose nowadays by denying one was built.

Cheers, TB

Edited by Tyre biter, 09 March 2012 - 03:52 PM.


#27 xu2308

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:48 PM

Mike
the Pink XU-1 u are talking about built on the same day as Larry's, what is the dealer code on it ?????????, if its a Adelaide Dealer it might be a Dealer built V8 Car, there was some dealers building V8 LJ's in NSW and Vic.
Suss the Dealer that its listed on the Warranty Vin List.

Mike<p> the Pink XU-1 u are%2

#28 _sloper35_

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:18 PM

Steve Bedwell has this story screwed up. The Old Man Emu Car was nothing more than a Clay proposal for the 81837 style. The stylists went a little overboard after Ford released the Phase II GT. In other words they though Holden could build a "Roo" beater.Attached File  roo.jpg   41.46K   2 downloads
This is where the "Old Man Emu" name came from.
Holden never had any intention of putting anything bigger than a 350 in the HQ. Toranas were King of the Mountain.
TB you are correct a Clay has no engine, trans or any mechanals. Spoke yesterday to Leo Pruneau and he says the 350/Z followed the 81837 clay and was built using an early production HQ 81837 .
It was never meant to be a performance car just a Show Car. Leo was surprised to learn (much later) that it was used by advertising for an advert - this advert seems to only appears in the Motor Show Programs. I have it in the Melb one and would like to know if it was anywhere else.

This is well off the thread but interesting stuff.

#29 sagman

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:07 PM

Hi Norm , also in one of the giant killer mags as an inside back cover in colour.( number 1 ) , also must have been used for something as it had 2000 miles on the clock when sold.

Like you said off the thread but very interesting.

Laz

#30 _Ozzie Picker_

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:31 PM

hi laz,

Whats the story behind the Giant Killer magazines?Was there many issues made ?etcThey are great reading.

#31 sagman

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:21 PM

Hi Craig , there were 4 issues of giant killers which then morphed into V8 action, they were published by age publications for gmh and obviously they were keen to push the products success , the people who were contributing the info were the people who were there doing it.

As they were written 'in the day' the information in them is pretty much right , in fact when i first got saggy and started the history search bondy and the capt. both suggested getting these mags and early racing car news as they would be a pretty accurate account of the happenings from that time.

I would recommend them for a must have for Torana folk.

Laz

#32 Bazza

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:43 PM

Steve Bedwell has this story screwed up. The Old Man Emu Car was nothing more than a Clay proposal for the 81837 style. The stylists went a little overboard after Ford released the Phase II GT. In other words they though Holden could build a "Roo" beater.Attached File  roo.jpg   41.46K   2 downloads
This is where the "Old Man Emu" name came from.



For the younger ones - no doubt from the John Williamson #1 hit song written in 1970 entitled "Old Man Emu". ....."he can't fly but i'm tellin' you - he can run the pants off a kangaroo"

Cheers

Bazza

#33 sagman

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 04:09 AM

That is I believe correct Bazza and thats exactly how it was to be marketed if i went ahead.


Laz

#34 REDA9X

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:07 AM

Here is something you may find of interest


I had started a band called 'Witchcraft' in Adelaide.
A lot of the guys in the band were from Elizabeth, and we were all doing apprenticeships at the time (I was doing watchmaking).
Our Bass Player was a guy called Joe (so no last name as we just called him Joe the wog).
Joe was an apprentice at GMH in Elizabeth, a very good apprentice because he got apprentice of the year two years running.
Sadly Joe is longer with us, he was killed in a ski-boating accident in the early eighties.
Joe had been working across the road from the main plant at Elizabeth, it was a private company but was owned by GMH.
I have heard the word 'skunk works' used.
Anyway this place used to do the right hand drive conversions on Chevs and Buicks for the government fleet, they also had a lot to do with the Statesman (350 V8) and Monaro's going to Sth Africa (changes to components and badges etc).
Anyway, Joe tells me they are building some XU1 V8's and that he is going to build his own car, would I help him and drive him down etc.
Joe purchased, through the employee scheme, a brand new XU1 Torana, dark blue, and a brand new crate 308 that he had delivered across the road.
He drove the XU1 for a few days or weeks not sure how long and then on Saturday I followed him down to this place and started working on his car.
Now I will tell you what I saw there, there were at least six but maybe more XU1 Toranas going through conversions from six cylinders to V8's.
Some already had stickers on the back with XU1 V8 (not XU2). Joe was given space at the back of the workshop.
We were given or read the riot act (no photos, don't ever tell any one etc).
Joe was given the engineering and data sheets including the parts lists and was able to get the parts from the store as they became available (THIS IS IMPORTANT).
Over a period of three or four Saturdays we converted his XU1 to an XU1 V8 complete with all factory parts and decals.
Our oganist, a guy called Danny, bought the XU1 motor off Joe but never paid for it causing Joe to leave the band latter on.
One Saturday morning we arrived and were ushered into the bosses office, he told Joe to get his car out straight away or he would lose it.
We were missing one part that had not been finalized (this may be important to you) the part was the throttle linkages (they had not been made yet, I think there was a problem with one of the brackets on the firewall).
We fitted a makeshift throttle cable by using some venetian blind cord and drove the car to a mates place in Elizabeth.
The car would take off in fourth gear it had that much torque.
Joe told me the following Saturday that GMH Executives had come in a very short period of time after we had left and closed the place down.
They sent all the staff home for a number of days.
All the Toranas plus a couple of other cars were destroyed.
One of the other cars that I think was destroyed was a cross between a HQ Monaro and a Transam, it had doors that opened with a part of the roof (ie the door top cut into the roof section).
Another car that was there at the time was the GTR XU1 which was minus wheels and drivetrain and sitting on top of a container in the back yard under a green tarp (that obviously wasn't destroyed).
I can't give great details on dates and times or full details because quite frankly I was young and stupid and back then we had little or no concerns about history or what might happen.
The recollections are sketchy but I clearly remember the cars were XU1 V8's (XU2 was used by the airconding fitment apparently) and there were at least six but may be more.
I have no idea what ever happened to Joe's car but it would be an original XU1 V8 because all factory parts were used (except the throttle linkage).
I have mentioned this to Harry Firth and when I told him about the throttle linkage he smiled and told me he didn't think they had solved that problem.

This is not some one told me or I heard it in the pub, it is my own personal recollections (and I was not a Holden guy I was a Chrysler guy so didn't have that much interest other than helping a mate).
The band folded a few years later because we all had to concentrate on our apprenteships (we did come second to Jimmy Barnes and the guys in the Battle of the Sounds and I remember Barnsey showing off one night after he had adjusted the brakes and rake on his black Dodge Phoenix, he put it up on its nose in the middle of the street in front of us).

I don't know about any of the other cars built in Victoria or Qld only what I saw in Elizabeth.


#35 _Ozzie Picker_

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:34 AM

Far out RED,i do remember that band name,and for all that great info on your experiances with your friends V8 XU1,your da man!!!

If that torana is still alive,wouldn,t that be fantastic.

Laz,those Giant Killer magazines are real good reading and i must have the first V8 action,great interviews with Harry Firth.It would be good for torana guy,s, if these could be reprinted,as you say this info is pritty much spot on.

#36 _oz772_

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:09 AM

FWIW, the Giant Killer and V8 Action magazines were available for free at the dealers (despite having a price on the cover). They were on the same stand as the car brochures. I remember going to Muirs at Ashfield regularly as a kid to collect brochures and the latest Giant Killer magazines when they were released.

#37 u1 71

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:33 AM

street machine did a story on the torana xu1 v8 it was in the mid 90s from memory.the featured car on the cover was a yellow torana hatchbak they claimed it was top secret it showed the wiring diagram and accelerator linkage set up that was used for this purpose,i have the book .

#38 sagman

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:21 PM

Bloody fascinating account of your early days RED , Barnsey and a phoenix ! that must have been a spin out for a chrysler dude :party:

#39 REDA9X

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:42 PM

Um, it wasn't me lol, it was a bloke from work who sent me that after some discussions we were having. I felt it was pretty good information.

#40 sagman

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:57 PM

Agreed , certainly interesting stuff and i will ask a couple of mates who were long timers , 40 + years at eliz ......... mind you there was plenty going on that nobody ever knew about .

Laz

#41 _sloper35_

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:04 PM

Not sure what the throttle problem was, there is an Instruction drawing of the V8 linkage and three Prototypes were built with this system, the Pink car doing a number of Performance ks at the PG. Joe Felice drove the Orange V8 with throttle problems.
The only Engineering aspect that was not fully engineered at the time of the programs cancellation was the fuel system. The tank was designed and fillers had been fitted to the three prototypes quarters but the bits between the fillers and tank was missing.
This story is worth following up if only for the S African stuff, the build of these cars has always been a mystery

#42 a9x868

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:57 PM

Not sure what the throttle problem was, there is an Instruction drawing of the V8 linkage and three Prototypes were built with this system, the Pink car doing a number of Performance ks at the PG. Joe Felice drove the Orange V8 with throttle problems.
The only Engineering aspect that was not fully engineered at the time of the programs cancellation was the fuel system. The tank was designed and fillers had been fitted to the three prototypes quarters but the bits between the fillers and tank was missing.
This story is worth following up if only for the S African stuff, the build of these cars has always been a mystery

so far it,s a great read guys especially with all of your
personal accounts
keep it going for all of us torana lovers.
you guys over east had it so good.
cheers davemc

#43 xu2308

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:32 AM

The Engineering Drawings for the V8 LJ XU-1 are called XW-7 Drawings
now there might be one for the fuel line, maybe we just have come across it yet, or holden hadent draw it up yet,i reckon they would of used the standard LJ XU-1 fuel line from tank to engine, only difference would be a Huge fuel tank and two fillers .

#44 enderwigginau

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:26 AM

Wasn't it the flexible line between the solid filler and tank that was the sticking point?
With that much vibration it needed to be able to cope indefinitely.........you wouldn't want to drop the hose in and fill the boot cos the filler tube had failed.......

#45 xu2308

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:12 PM

If the production version was using the HQ Wagon filler caps, maybe the pipe was a rubber hose to the tank or the metal pipe that the HQ Wagon and HQ Panal Van used, if production was close on the V8 LJ Cars, then u would think the tank side of things would of been done and dusted

#46 xu2308

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:09 PM

Attached File  Twin Turbo 308 XU1.JPG   176.88K   4 downloads

Attached File  Twin Turbo 308 XU1 pic.JPG   173.9K   2 downloads

Harry might love this 308 V8 XU-1 with its Twin Turbos, done in 1985 in Tasmania, now what a Beasty that would of been

#47 xu2308

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:20 PM



Here is how Harry did the petrol tanks in the GT500 Cortina with the Twin Fillers, so maybe the H
might of wanted the same set up in the V8 LJ Boot

#48 u1 71

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:45 PM

sorry guys i know its the wrong thread to ask this but has anybody asked harry firth which model gtr xu1 was his favourite the lc or the lj,i read in a daily telegraph article some time ago that a test driver at lang lang proving grounds was asked this question and he said it was the first gtr xu1 torana the lc ive also spoken to an old guy that owned these cars when they were new a dolly yellow lc xu1,a salamanca red lj and a cyan blue 73 bathurst and he told me the lc was his favourite.

#49 xu2308

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:28 PM

Harry fave car of all time was the V8 XU-1, he said it was that good, it would of won everything it went in, now which one was he talking about
his Yellow LC HDT XU-1 or the Pink LJ one he was driving around that is the question

#50 yel327

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:13 AM



Here is how Harry did the petrol tanks in the GT500 Cortina with the Twin Fillers, so maybe the H
might of wanted the same set up in the V8 LJ Boot


Have you looked in the boot of one of the Repco rally Commodores? These ran a lot of XU-1-ish gear and HDT were involved with their build, I think Ian Tate was up to his armpits in it from memory. So maybe it resembled what was planned for the XU-1??? Only speculating here.




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