53 replies to this topic

[Tyre biter]

Brad,

I found it - I asked this question in a thread of mine a while back (January 2012) and got this reply from ls2lxhatch in post #14;
"The UC parts manual shows the leg bush fitted correctly. The LH and LX parts manuals are wrong".
http://www.gmh-toran...-member-needed/
Also refer post #22 in the same thread - lots of helpful things on the link provided there.

Cheers, TB

[hanra]

What about LC and LJ? Were they also fitted incorrectly? Similar sort of design.

[Tyre biter]

Wouldn't have a clue sorry mate.

I reckon ls2lxhatch has it though - I again just look a the shape of the things including the little knobs which circle the flat end of the wider side of the bush and the metal 'flange' on the chassis rail, and (to me) it makes sense they mount up in this fashion.

I also look to ls2lxhatch and other's comments re: the LH manual has it wrong - like I said previously in this thread, the manual also has the direction in which the tie rod ends fit into the steering arms arse about and is an example by which the manual is not always reliable. No doubt during your inch by inch rebuild you have found other examples?

In any case, I'd suggest that walpolla's pics in this thread of an unmolested fitting accord with this view.

Cheers, TB

[hanra]

Yeah I dunno ay. I think Dave is on the money with braking forces bending in the legs and so needing to have bush in that position. Dunno ay... Really dunno....

4 workshop manuals all wrong??

[Tyre biter]

I feel for you Brad - I'd be at sixes an sevens as well if I was doing what you are with your car.

Though I'd disregard the LC/LJ stuff mate - different model - similar design specs in terms of this component layout by all means, I readily accept the same, but 'similar' is the term to acknowledge - meaning not necessarily the same.

And so we are left with the LH and UC manuals (nil for LX save for a supplement) which clearly disagree on this front, and in which it has been established can be incorrect in other places (the LH one re: tie rod ends to steering arms as example). Jeepers, imagine folks trying to restore a VE in 30 years and trying to decipher if the plenum cover ought to have a plastic screw at each end or not, or if it should have a beauty cover over the radiator - it is a minefield lost to the ages!

Again, I look to walpolla's pics of what he claims to be an unmolested and original K-Frame. If those images can be relied upon together with accounts provided by renowned folks such as ls2lxhatch then that is clearly the way to go. Not definitive evidence I concede.

Perhaps the sole way to sate our concern is to have a look at several supposedly 'original' examples if you can find them to see what they depict. Surely someone here has a few of these in their collections?

Cheers, TB

[S pack]

Brad,

Even though from the engineering perspective I believe these bushes should be installed the same way as for the LC/LJ, the evidence provided so far suggests that GMH must have had a rethink of their installation for the LH model.

Probably best to install them as per the UC model which everyone is saying is also the correct way for LH/LX.

I know you only want to install the crossmember once, however the option is there to turn the bushes around (as I had to do) if you find it impossible to get the braces to fit between the chassis rails.

[hanra]

Righteo! Ill flog em back out and spin em around. I think either way it is going to be a nightmare to get the legs to fit in between the chassis rails. I double checked my measurements again on the weekend.

Its 71cm between the rails, and just a smidge upder 73cm from the outer faces of the bushes... I put a ratchet strap around the legs to see how far they would bend in.... I think I was lucky to get 72.5cm.. Its gunna be tight!

[Tyre biter]

I found the same Brad re: "It's gunna be tight..."

I put the ratchet straps on mine, very quickly got to a 'pukka' moment of no further movement, and found they made bugger-all difference or so it felt. Not even a length of the good-old Telecom rope using a truckie's hitch made any gain it seemed. I think you need the type of ratchet straps used by folks carting loads about on their trucks - they sort with the slot-in long handles for increased leverage and the like.

Those spatulas and (in my case) jemmy bars worked well - there is a need for touch-up paint following the bars sorry to report. It is definitely a two-man job and even better with three - doing it by yourself will assure one's complete and utter loss of 'ha-ha'.

Good luck with it and cheers, TB

[hanra]

Brad,

Even though from the engineering perspective I believe these bushes should be installed the same way as for the LC/LJ, the evidence provided so far suggests that GMH must have had a rethink of their installation for the LH model.

Probably best to install them as per the UC model which everyone is saying is also the correct way for LH/LX.

It's a tricky one for me because in my field of work, the workshop manual is always right. Regardless if yourself or others feel its wrong. If there is an incident, and authorities get involved, and you fitted something how you thought it "should" be fitted and not how the workshop manual states it is fitted.... Then you will be in all kinds of creeks full of shit without any paddles...

[EunUCh]

LH manual is wrong,fit as per UC picture.they will fit.
dont worry about braking forces because if they even move
at all it wont be worth worrying about.I would say that if they move
that they would move out if at all?

[midlife crisis]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm up to the same stage of refitting K frame to body. I have the same problem as Hanra, 71cm between chassis and 73cm from outside of outrigger bushes. Basically, my question is to Hanra. Did the greased paint scrapers work? How hard was it to fit? My bushes are rare spares rubber ones.

[hanra]

I used a ratchet strap between the K-Frame legs. That brought the legs in a smidgen, then yes, greased paint scrappers did the trick. It dropped in easily. I to had rubber RSP bushes.

[midlife crisis]

O.k. thanks for replying. How did you push the outriggers on? did you use a jack under the outriggers? I have my car raised on a block and tackle and lowering it down onto k frame.

[hanra]

I think I lowered the car down, got the 4 chassis rail studs started, then yeah I might of had a jack under the k frame legs, I cant really remember. It wasnt as hard as I thought it was going to be.

[midlife crisis]

O.k. thanks.

[Toranamat69]

This is interresting - I have always replaced these with Poly ones and from memory they are larger both sides so it doesn't matter which way the bushes go.  I though I would have a bit of a look at all the various front ends I have here.  These all have very old rubber bushes still - can't guarantee they have never been messed with.

 

I have

2 LC ones with large side of bush away from chassis (same as diagram above.)

1 LJ one with large side of bush toward the chassis rail. (opposite to diagram above)

1 LX RTS which has the large side toward the chassis rail (opposite to diagram above)

3 UC ones with the large side toward the chassis rail (same as diagram above)

1 UC one with the large side away from the chassis rail. (opposite to diagram above)

 

Seems most of them follow the diagrams, just the 3 that are opposite.

[S pack]

HB/LC/LJ/TA/LH/LX/UC outrigger bushes.

NOS and Superpro. Note the bumps under the flanged end.

 

When the bush is installed the correct way around (flanged end facing the engine) in the the LC/LJ outrigger, those bumps seem to mate up with recesses/divots (or whatever they might be called) in the outrigger. Similar to the ones you can see in this LH outrigger.

 

 

[Mort]

I've not long pulled my front end out and the outrigger bushes were the same as the last pic that Dave has posted, can't say if they are the original ones or not.

[Cook]

Gents, I'd like to reopen this topic.  I have just tried to fit the front end in the hatch and beside the problem of getting the top end fitted up and then the outrigger not marrying up with the chassis holes, I noticed that one of the outrigger bushes has popped out. I had them fitted as per what seemed to be the consensus of fat side towards middle of car.  This makes me think that the correct way is fat side between chassis rail and outrigger, but will be fun getting it in.  here's a pic.  Other problem I had was the mechanism in ratchet strap I have is too long and will scratch the outrigger.  Any suggestions or am I doing it all wrong.  Cheers Ron 

Attached Files

•  Outrigger Bush Popped.jpg   113.04K   3 downloads

[hanra]

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Attached Files

•  C207AE76-C172-47F5-824F-3C05B4B563F9.png   450.61K   6 downloads

[Cook]

I've got it back out and one bush turned around now having difficulty getting the other out.  Don't you love it.  So Brad, I couldn't find your build thread.  Did you use the ratchet strap/scraper method to get yours in? Any tips? Cheers Ron