The VR was the odd man out. Waldorf has one of those.
t5 conversion idea, thoughts
Started by
_pinklx_
, Oct 23 2012 04:20 PM
62 replies to this topic
#26
Statler
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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:24 PM
#27
_pinklx_
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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:36 AM
i would assume the vr box would allso be a "world class" box as well due to it being around 94?
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#29
toranamech
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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:31 PM
the commy V6 boxes are ford B style as well, it seemes that it was only the T5G's and V8 VN to Mid VR were GM A style, this change also seemed to coincide with the upgraded box, no doubt B/W at the time trying to save some coin.
So there must be a 5.0 turbo pattern to ford B pattern Holden depth bellhousing about, mid VR to VS pre getrag 290?
Let me know how the stang extension housing goes length wise as I see them on Ebay etc for around the $50 mark, I guess there is the speedo drive issue to contend with as well.
The other option is single rail bellhousing and ford ext housing, use V8 gearset and mustang input, anyway, will keep searching some more.
So there must be a 5.0 turbo pattern to ford B pattern Holden depth bellhousing about, mid VR to VS pre getrag 290?
Let me know how the stang extension housing goes length wise as I see them on Ebay etc for around the $50 mark, I guess there is the speedo drive issue to contend with as well.
The other option is single rail bellhousing and ford ext housing, use V8 gearset and mustang input, anyway, will keep searching some more.
#30
Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:50 PM
It probably has as much to do with the ratios as anything, easiest way to get the desired combination off the shelf
#31
_pinklx_
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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:10 PM
yes i have a turbo pattern to b style bellhouseing here on the vr box i have. yeah the ones i ebay were the ones i got, cost me $60each plust 120us to freight the both. old mate said he would throw in the shift rods as well so i didnt have to cut the ones i have. as for speedo just from the picks it seems if u use the 85 to 93 gt, cobra rear houseing the speedo drive is at about the same place on the box front to back, but on the other side. im guessing the holden t5 speedo drive will drop straight in or be bloody close.
#32
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:12 PM
the difference in face to shifter between the aussie and T5 boxes works cause the input shaft is shorter on the T5, so the whole box moves forwards towards the motor.
As luck would have it the difference in input shaft length make the shifter in the exact same as the aussie box.
Take your measurements from bellhousing to block face back to shifter
As luck would have it the difference in input shaft length make the shifter in the exact same as the aussie box.
Take your measurements from bellhousing to block face back to shifter
Edited by nemo355v8, 08 November 2012 - 10:14 PM.
#33
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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:30 PM
ok guys the mustang rear houseing turned up today, quick messurment is 270mm from ware it bolts to the main case to center of the shifter. so add that to the 235mm of the main case and a ford 6 imput shaft 167mm and u have 672mm or 26.45" from imput shaft tip to center shifter. .45" further back than an aussie four speed. at a guess i would say this houseing is pretty much the same spaceing as a t5g shifter placement. also the speedo drive hole appears to be same diameter as a holden v8 and is 160mm from front of rear houseing to center of the hole which is the same as a holden box its just on the other side of the box like an aussie four speed is.
#34
_pinklx_
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:47 PM
after a closer look this shifter will still sit about an inch forward of a t5g.
#35
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:20 PM
hole for speedo should be the same world wide for the T5, also happens to be the same as single rail and B/W 35 and 40 autos as there all a Borgwarner design. also TKO 500/600
Hint TE TF Cortina 6cyl auto or manual speedo cable will slip straight in to a T5 and has the same clip at the speedo head, correct length
Hint TE TF Cortina 6cyl auto or manual speedo cable will slip straight in to a T5 and has the same clip at the speedo head, correct length
#36
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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:23 AM
i noticed with some of the v6 cpari t5's the speedo hole was way further forward but probs the same diameter. in the t5 book i have it dose mention to differant speedo locations(as far as length wize along the box) says its no hard to convert one to the other tho.
#37
TUF 308
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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:55 PM
Any updates?
#38
_pinklx_
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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:06 AM
yes bro, ive discoverd that since moveing the speedo drive to the other side of the box it infact will turn the speedo cable backwards. I worked out to fix this problem u have to run a mustang drive gear on the main shaft and i worked out a c4/c6 driven gear on a toploader to lh cable.
im still waiting for the drive gear to arrive from the states. after that gets here i should be able to assemble the box and get exact messurements to compare to the aussie box i have.
Also the toploader bellhouseing i have here dosent seem to have quite enough meat on the bottom of it for the two lower holes to be drilled, im thinking of welding a few lumps on it to give me the room i need.
only other option would be to use a gforce case with the toploader pattern on it.
Im also converting it to a ram hydrulic throwout bearing while im going, i think it should end up interesting.
im still waiting for the drive gear to arrive from the states. after that gets here i should be able to assemble the box and get exact messurements to compare to the aussie box i have.
Also the toploader bellhouseing i have here dosent seem to have quite enough meat on the bottom of it for the two lower holes to be drilled, im thinking of welding a few lumps on it to give me the room i need.
only other option would be to use a gforce case with the toploader pattern on it.
Im also converting it to a ram hydrulic throwout bearing while im going, i think it should end up interesting.
#39
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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:51 PM
trial assembly today, bellhouseing face to center shifter 660mm, or 26", same as aussie four speed as far as i can tell i think i nailed it?
#40
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:06 PM
a little update. been doing a bit on this conversion. got my bellhouseing sorted. trial fitted the box up with the new rear extention. as i said the shifter ends up at 26" same as the aussie box. worked out the mustangs rear mount is on a 5 degree angle but if i make a bracket that sits the mount directly behind the mustang location and about 70mm down from the mainshaft centre line it will be exactly ware a t350 mount is. that means u can either run a t350 x member or hunt up a powerglide z plate from a hk/t/g and use it on a stock x member.
next job is to shorten the shift rail 51mm. u could just use a stock mustang shift rail but i dont have one so i will be cutting the ford one.
anyway heres a photo of it so far.
next job is to shorten the shift rail 51mm. u could just use a stock mustang shift rail but i dont have one so i will be cutting the ford one.
anyway heres a photo of it so far.
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#41
_Azza_
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:31 PM
Hey Jason,
Very interested to see how this all fits in. I used a VN V8 T5 on my LX and I had to cut the front seat support member to get the shifter to fit in. I regret doing that and always will. I did it due to getting bad advice from some idiot Auto Wreckers. Anyway, very keen to see some photos of it in the car.
What engine are you bolting it all up to? I bolted mine up to a 253, non turbo pattern, so I needed an additional adaptor plate to go between the T5 box and the bellhousing. This pushed the gearbox back a further 40mm..
I'm really keen to move this gearbox forward so I can repair the floor properly. Everything is welded up at the moment but I just regret doing it, so I want it changed.
I'm glad you're going through all this effort and doing your own research. I've learnt that going on advice from someone trying to sell you a product is probably the worst thing you can do..
When I go to my car next I'll get some photos of where mine is sitting and some measurements.
Cheers
Very interested to see how this all fits in. I used a VN V8 T5 on my LX and I had to cut the front seat support member to get the shifter to fit in. I regret doing that and always will. I did it due to getting bad advice from some idiot Auto Wreckers. Anyway, very keen to see some photos of it in the car.
What engine are you bolting it all up to? I bolted mine up to a 253, non turbo pattern, so I needed an additional adaptor plate to go between the T5 box and the bellhousing. This pushed the gearbox back a further 40mm..
I'm really keen to move this gearbox forward so I can repair the floor properly. Everything is welded up at the moment but I just regret doing it, so I want it changed.
I'm glad you're going through all this effort and doing your own research. I've learnt that going on advice from someone trying to sell you a product is probably the worst thing you can do..
When I go to my car next I'll get some photos of where mine is sitting and some measurements.
Cheers
#42
_pinklx_
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:42 PM
bro its going behing a mild 355 injected holden v8. i messured up an aussie bellhousing one time to fit a t5 to to trimatic pattern block and it could be modded to fit. if then u use the mustang rear half on the vn v8 box your shifter would sit i think 38mm futher back than stock. still thats a long way forward of a stock vn v8 box would, about 70mm. then u also wouldnt have any addapters. the only other option would be to find a walky or vk group a bellhouseing which are both trimatic pattern and will bolt to a vn t5. but u would still need to go the mustang rear half to bring the shifter way forward. or a ford 6 rear extention but your only gaining about 20mm.
#43
_Azza_
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:47 PM
Hey I forgot to mention, have you considered making custom engine mounts which bring the engine forward further? Or does anyone know if there are any mounts that can do this?
Cheers
Cheers
#44
_Azza_
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:51 PM
Thanks Jason. I'm going to look into changing it all.
I just need it forward enough to clear the seat support so I can reinforce it again.
I just need it forward enough to clear the seat support so I can reinforce it again.
#45
Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:15 PM
Commodore mounts will bring it further forward but you would reduce oil capacity a bit much after you modified the sump to fit, and of course a Torana certainly doesn't need the weight shifted further forwardHey I forgot to mention, have you considered making custom engine mounts which bring the engine forward further? Or does anyone know if there are any mounts that can do this?
#46
_pinklx_
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:35 PM
yeah i wouldnt be keen on moveing the motor either. i think it would be just better to fix the actual problem of the shifter location rather than create alot more problems by moving the engine.
i will take a second look at that aussie bellhouseing again when i get a chance. i dont think it would be hard to modify.
i will take a second look at that aussie bellhouseing again when i get a chance. i dont think it would be hard to modify.
#47
_pinklx_
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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:49 AM
hey azza i just re read your post and realised your running a spacer between then box and the bellhouseing?? what bellhouseing are you useing? if its a dellow one designed for the ford 6 box they only have an input shaft of 167mm, it u have a v8 box on it they have an input of 205mm, a 38mm diferance. u could pull out the v8 box and put in a ford 6 box which also uses a differant shifter location and move you shifter ruffly 60mm forward.
you would also have to change the clutch disk (not the pressure plate) to a ford v8 one. aslo minnor mods to the crossmember. and your tailshaft would be 38mm too short, and a differant spiggot bearing as well.
the ford boxs also have lower raitios 1 thru 3rd and are cheap as chips. v8 boxs for holdens still go for good money. the most ive payed for a ford 6 t5 is $50.
you would also have to change the clutch disk (not the pressure plate) to a ford v8 one. aslo minnor mods to the crossmember. and your tailshaft would be 38mm too short, and a differant spiggot bearing as well.
the ford boxs also have lower raitios 1 thru 3rd and are cheap as chips. v8 boxs for holdens still go for good money. the most ive payed for a ford 6 t5 is $50.
#48
_Azza_
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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:03 PM
Hey Pinky,
It was about 5 years ago I bought everything for the setup so the memory aint the best. It's a trimatic pattern bellhousing I think out of a commodore. Then there is an adaptor plate bolted to the bellhousing, and the gearbox bolts to the plate. The adaptor is about 40mm thick, that's probably to cater for the longer V8 shaft I assume?
Are there any differences between the 6 and 8 gearboxes strength wise? Or is it mainly just the ratio's that differ? I am running a 3.9 ratio diff as well. I'm not the best when working with ratio's, would you know what gearbox would best suit the diff?
Cheers
It was about 5 years ago I bought everything for the setup so the memory aint the best. It's a trimatic pattern bellhousing I think out of a commodore. Then there is an adaptor plate bolted to the bellhousing, and the gearbox bolts to the plate. The adaptor is about 40mm thick, that's probably to cater for the longer V8 shaft I assume?
Are there any differences between the 6 and 8 gearboxes strength wise? Or is it mainly just the ratio's that differ? I am running a 3.9 ratio diff as well. I'm not the best when working with ratio's, would you know what gearbox would best suit the diff?
Cheers
#49
_pinklx_
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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:42 AM
bro the only trimatic pattern manual bellhouseing for commodores made afaik were the aussi 4 speed which is about 190mm and the t5g bellhouseings, two types made, the hdt and the hsv versions. both near identical except one has hdt and the other has hsv on it. the to suit the very short input shaft of 160mm that the t5g had.
if u have a 40mm spacer on an aussie bell u must be running a commodore v6 box. it has a realy long input shaft, 240mm??? from memeory. or u have a v8 box on a t5g bellhouseing.
most t5s we have in aus are pretty much as strong as each other (all weak as piss) but some people say because of the ratios in the v8 boxs they are a little stronger. the differance is minimal tho. a stock 5L driven not overly hard can break one.
bro you realy need to mesure the distance from the back of your block to the gearbox main case to get an idea what input shaft length u are running that would tell me what box you have. also look at the bellhouseing i think ware the starter motor bulge is and see if it has hdt cast on it or up the top below the dizzy i think is where they put hsv. im goin off memeory here and theres been alot of jack danials between when i saw one last and now.
as for those diff gears a v8 ratio box would be better as there taller ratios in the first 3 gears. if u run a 6cly box they are lower in the first three gears so u would be better off with tall diff gears, say 3.25, 3.5 depending on tyer size. the one advantage of going that way is you can still get the nice acelleration in the lower gears but get better hyw cruiseing and ecconomy.
one thing i have been looking into for the ford 6 boxs is astro performace in the states are now makeing full internals for these e series boxs, you can buy a kit for around 1800us that will make them handel 600f/lbs. a stock t5 is over rated at 300. the word is that an astro fitted t5 ford 6 box will out last a tremec tko600 and be half the size and weight.
thats the main reason im sticking with the ford 6 setup and trying to make it fit without mods to the car so if it all works out i'll buy an astro kit and pretty much never have to worrie about it again. btw the astro kit is actually made in v8 ratios.
i guess in the end its all about what u plan on doing to/with the car and what parts u have now to work with to solve your problem. trust me if u have a hdt or hsv bellhouseing in that car u could near pull it out n sell it and buy a brand new dellow bellhouseing and a used ford 6 box n maybe have enough left over for a carton.
if u have a 40mm spacer on an aussie bell u must be running a commodore v6 box. it has a realy long input shaft, 240mm??? from memeory. or u have a v8 box on a t5g bellhouseing.
most t5s we have in aus are pretty much as strong as each other (all weak as piss) but some people say because of the ratios in the v8 boxs they are a little stronger. the differance is minimal tho. a stock 5L driven not overly hard can break one.
bro you realy need to mesure the distance from the back of your block to the gearbox main case to get an idea what input shaft length u are running that would tell me what box you have. also look at the bellhouseing i think ware the starter motor bulge is and see if it has hdt cast on it or up the top below the dizzy i think is where they put hsv. im goin off memeory here and theres been alot of jack danials between when i saw one last and now.
as for those diff gears a v8 ratio box would be better as there taller ratios in the first 3 gears. if u run a 6cly box they are lower in the first three gears so u would be better off with tall diff gears, say 3.25, 3.5 depending on tyer size. the one advantage of going that way is you can still get the nice acelleration in the lower gears but get better hyw cruiseing and ecconomy.
one thing i have been looking into for the ford 6 boxs is astro performace in the states are now makeing full internals for these e series boxs, you can buy a kit for around 1800us that will make them handel 600f/lbs. a stock t5 is over rated at 300. the word is that an astro fitted t5 ford 6 box will out last a tremec tko600 and be half the size and weight.
thats the main reason im sticking with the ford 6 setup and trying to make it fit without mods to the car so if it all works out i'll buy an astro kit and pretty much never have to worrie about it again. btw the astro kit is actually made in v8 ratios.
i guess in the end its all about what u plan on doing to/with the car and what parts u have now to work with to solve your problem. trust me if u have a hdt or hsv bellhouseing in that car u could near pull it out n sell it and buy a brand new dellow bellhouseing and a used ford 6 box n maybe have enough left over for a carton.
Edited by pinklx, 13 February 2013 - 10:49 AM.
#50
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Posted 04 December 2014 - 10:17 AM
Anyone use the mustag idea in a kingswood sedan hj
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