Food for thought.
http://www.rta.nsw.g...rn-creek-qa.pdf
Qld anti hoon laws to be reviewed
Started by
S pack
, Nov 03 2012 11:54 PM
377 replies to this topic
#251
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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:47 PM
#252
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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:19 PM
The only stat quoted is the % of accidents that can be accredited to hooning. Somehow, to you that translates to hooning is safe? No it's a high risk activity that only results in low overall incidents because there is only a tiny minority of idiots that do it.
Credentials of dr Michael Henderson, if you want to seriously consider the recommendations of someone who claims street racing is a minor offence then any sensible discussion is really impossible, don't you think.
If you read the article I posted, Dr Michael Henderson never claimed street racing is a minor offence, what he advised the Parliamentary Committee was that there clearly is a hazzard, however the penalties seem Draconian for what is essentially a nuisance activity when the penalties for more dangerous things like recidivist drink drivers were not as harsh. (no specific form of hooning was singled out so one would presume he was referring to hooning in general)
It was the report compiled by the Parliamentary Committee that the conclusion was drawn from that Hooning is not a Road Safety Problem.
Edited by S pack, 14 November 2012 - 08:22 PM.
#253
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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:49 PM
I don't quite follow, maybe I missed something, can they impound your car if you have not committed an offence?
When a police officer is provided with the opportunity to make decisions with little knowledge, training or guidance, it leaves it open to cars being impounded when no offence, or a minor offence, has been committed, all in the name of removing "hoons" from the roads. I'm not sure of the fate of the Transport Flying Squads in the current purge......the Police would stop a vehicle and it would have to wait for suitably trained and qualified TMR officers to assess for roadworthy or illegal mods.......These days the police only need SUSPICION of street racing or burnouts to fine and/or impound your car. In an area where burnouts are reported? you're screwed. same thing for street racing.
These laws will remove the requirement, and the police will just make a decision.........
#254
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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:01 PM
For those who want facts, here is a breakdown of the 169 Queensland hooning related accidents for the period 1999 to 2004 (6 years), compared to the total of 100,000 Queensland motor vehicle accidents for the period 1999 to 2003 (5 years).
Data has been compiled from Queensland Transport’s Webcrash2 database.
Of the 169 crashes:-
7 involved fatalities
36 hospitalisation required
50 minor injury/medical help required
76 involved property damage.
Data has been compiled from Queensland Transport’s Webcrash2 database.
Of the 169 crashes:-
7 involved fatalities
36 hospitalisation required
50 minor injury/medical help required
76 involved property damage.
Edited by S pack, 14 November 2012 - 11:02 PM.
#255
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:12 AM
This was reported recently in the Courier Mail, apparently.
New road fatalities statistics show that up to one third of car crashes in Queensland are caused by drivers using mobile phones.
So, based on that, a hypothetical rough estimate based on the 1999 - 2003 Queensland crash data would be 33,333 crashes out of 100,000 caused directly by mobile phone use whist driving. Whilst hooning, on the other hand (in all it's supposed forms), caused 169 crashes.
Obviously a lot more people choose to talk on their mobile phones whilst driving compared to the number of people hooning so the number of phone related crashes will be greater. Both activities can be dangerous but I can see which is the greater threat to our road safety.
I've also read that approx 30% of crashes are caused by drink driving, so drink driving and mobile phones can be directly attributed to cause approx 60% of all crashes.
Scary to say the least. About time they impounded and crushed the vehicles of people caught drink driving or using hand held mobile phones.
New road fatalities statistics show that up to one third of car crashes in Queensland are caused by drivers using mobile phones.
So, based on that, a hypothetical rough estimate based on the 1999 - 2003 Queensland crash data would be 33,333 crashes out of 100,000 caused directly by mobile phone use whist driving. Whilst hooning, on the other hand (in all it's supposed forms), caused 169 crashes.
Obviously a lot more people choose to talk on their mobile phones whilst driving compared to the number of people hooning so the number of phone related crashes will be greater. Both activities can be dangerous but I can see which is the greater threat to our road safety.
I've also read that approx 30% of crashes are caused by drink driving, so drink driving and mobile phones can be directly attributed to cause approx 60% of all crashes.
Scary to say the least. About time they impounded and crushed the vehicles of people caught drink driving or using hand held mobile phones.
#256
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:30 AM
This was reported recently in the Courier Mail, apparently.
New road fatalities statistics show that up to one third of car crashes in Queensland are caused by drivers using mobile phones.
So, based on that, a hypothetical rough estimate based on the 1999 - 2003 Queensland crash data would be 33,333 crashes out of 100,000 caused directly by mobile phone use whist driving. Whilst hooning, on the other hand (in all it's supposed forms), caused 169 crashes.
Obviously a lot more people choose to talk on their mobile phones whilst driving compared to the number of people hooning so the number of phone related crashes will be greater. Both activities can be dangerous but I can see which is the greater threat to our road safety.
I've also read that approx 30% of crashes are caused by drink driving, so drink driving and mobile phones can be directly attributed to cause approx 60% of all crashes.
Scary to say the least. About time they impounded and crushed the vehicles of people caught drink driving or using hand held mobile phones.
Oh dear: we have an argument that just because other deliberate and mindless activities cause road accidents then hooning isn't a safety issue.
And the majority of accidents that are caused by lack of judgement etc, then by your reckoning they are the ones that should be getting their cars crushed because they are the largest %.
I"ll leave it there, as i said previously sensible discussion based on the logic ^ is impossible.
#257
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:47 AM
But due to the flawed system, how many of those actually were "hoon" related.For those who want facts, here is a breakdown of the 169 Queensland hooning related accidents for the period 1999 to 2004 (6 years), compared to the total of 100,000 Queensland motor vehicle accidents for the period 1999 to 2003 (5 years).
Data has been compiled from Queensland Transport’s Webcrash2 database.
Of the 169 crashes:-
7 involved fatalities
36 hospitalisation required
50 minor injury/medical help required
76 involved property damage.
A sensible discussion is impossible while YOU fail to see sense.Oh dear: we have an argument that just because other deliberate and mindless activities cause road accidents then hooning isn't a safety issue.
And the majority of accidents that are caused by lack of judgement etc, then by your reckoning they are the ones that should be getting their cars crushed because they are the largest %.
I"ll leave it there, as i said previously sensible discussion based on the logic ^ is impossible.
Targeting a minority group in the name of road safety is not fair, reasonable or sensible.
Resources would be better spent targeting mobile phone usage and drink driving,tightening the laws and increasing the penalties surrounding these issues.
This would have more than 1000 fold greater effect on road safety than targeting a minority (while actually attacking others who just happen to fit a vague and propagandistic profile.....)
As you can no longer back up your flawed arguement and continue to fail to back it up with accurate facts, I hope you take your own advice and cease posting solely for the reactions you engender.
Grant..
#258
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:58 AM
#259
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:08 AM
But due to the flawed system, how many of those actually were "hoon" related.
A sensible discussion is impossible while YOU fail to see sense.
Targeting a minority group in the name of road safety is not fair, reasonable or sensible.
Resources would be better spent targeting mobile phone usage and drink driving,tightening the laws and increasing the penalties surrounding these issues.
This would have more than 1000 fold greater effect on road safety than targeting a minority (while actually attacking others who just happen to fit a vague and propagandistic profile.....)
As you can no longer back up your flawed arguement and continue to fail to back it up with accurate facts, I hope you take your own advice and cease posting solely for the reactions you engender.
Grant..
But due to the flawed system, how many of those actually were "hoon" related.
A sensible discussion is impossible while YOU fail to see sense.
Targeting a minority group in the name of road safety is not fair, reasonable or sensible.
Resources would be better spent targeting mobile phone usage and drink driving and tightening the laws and increasing the penalties surrounding these issues.
This would have more than 1000 fold greater effect on road safety than targeting a minority (while actually attacking others who just happen to fit a vague and propagandistic profile.....)
As you can no longer back up your flawed arguement and continue to fail to back it up with accurate facts, I hope you take your own advice and cease posting solely for the reactions you engender.
Grant..
I have noo problem targetting minority groups, they are why we generally have to put laws in place or indeed need a polic force.
There are just some that are too stupid to understand that what they are doing is dangerous or disruptive to the rest of the community and those that do understand but put their own puerile needs ahead of others.
Yes, get all the cretons using phones and the drunk drivers as well, deliberate acts that endanger us all.
Edited by torbirdie, 15 November 2012 - 06:10 AM.
#260
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:19 AM
So if the punishment for hooning in confiscation of your car.I have noo problem targetting minority groups, they are why we generally have to put laws in place or indeed need a polic force.
There are just some that are too stupid to understand that what they are doing is dangerous or disruptive to the rest of the community and those that do understand but put their own puerile needs ahead of others.
Yes, get all the cretons using phones and the drunk drivers as well, deliberate acts that endanger us all.
What is the punishment for talking on your mobile??? Burnt at the stake???
It appears to be a lot more of a factor regarding road safely but you get away with a slap on the wrist and a couple of demerit points.
#261
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:18 AM
I have noo problem targetting minority groups, they are why we generally have to put laws in place or indeed need a polic force.
There are just some that are too stupid to understand that what they are doing is dangerous or disruptive to the rest of the community and those that do understand but put their own puerile needs ahead of others.
Yes, get all the cretons using phones and the drunk drivers as well, deliberate acts that endanger us all.
How diluted are you, how can a simple thing such as cruising with fellow enthusiasts be dangerous or disruptive ?
If your against minority groups, why are you here on this forum ? If and I mean IF, your a car enthusiast, your a part of this minority group.
#262
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:59 AM
Brad, if you see Neil out n about, shake his hand for me and congratulate him and his club on having the cruising rule removed.
1 down many more to go, here's hoping other clubs have as much luck as the Cairns Ford Club.
1 down many more to go, here's hoping other clubs have as much luck as the Cairns Ford Club.
#263
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:10 AM
Brad, if you see Neil out n about, shake his hand for me and congratulate him and his club on having the cruising rule removed.
1 down many more to go, here's hoping other clubs have as much luck as the Cairns Ford Club.
I will be seeing Neil in a few weeks Mort.
#264
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:19 AM
The removal of the cruising referrence was a collaborative effort. Myself and many others phoned, emailed and wrote CARRS-Q to express our concern. I believe Les Cavanagh was also instumental in this win, suss out the Gruntfiles facebook page for more info.
Im not taking anything away from Neil or anyone else as one person MIGHT make a difference but many people WILL make a difference. Regardless of who fired the fatal shot, this demonstrates that a sensibile and united approach will get results. In say that, Brad, when you see Neil, tell him the QTCC thanks him for his efforts as well :-)
Its a small win for us, and just what we need to gather momentum for the cause.
I will be meeting with Keith Littler (the grunt files dude) in the near future along with others who have jumped on board to nut out a plan to change the communities perception of Car Enthusiasts. At the moment the gruntfiles campaign is gathering facts, as much as we can to support our concerns and once the facts and information gathering is complete the next phase can begin.
I encourage anyone who wants to see a shift in perception to come on board and get behinds this. As has been demonstrated, we have strength in numbers, more number means more power.
What can you do?
If you are in a car club get your committee onto this as a priority.
If you are on other forums, spread the word and direct forum members to the gruntfiles facebook page or website.
If other forums, clubs, groups are doing something similar to gruntfiles please let me know and if possible, give me contact names. I dont care if they are imports, fords, morris minors, bikes, boats etc. One in, all in as far as I am concerned.
Promote the cause to your friends, work mates, family etc. Ram it home that we ARE NOT HOONS.
This is NOT a campaing to legitimise Burnouts and Street Racing, please be clear on that. This is a campaign to legitimise our hobby in the eyes of the public who have been persuded thus far the we are the same as the hoons. We are not.
Im not taking anything away from Neil or anyone else as one person MIGHT make a difference but many people WILL make a difference. Regardless of who fired the fatal shot, this demonstrates that a sensibile and united approach will get results. In say that, Brad, when you see Neil, tell him the QTCC thanks him for his efforts as well :-)
Its a small win for us, and just what we need to gather momentum for the cause.
I will be meeting with Keith Littler (the grunt files dude) in the near future along with others who have jumped on board to nut out a plan to change the communities perception of Car Enthusiasts. At the moment the gruntfiles campaign is gathering facts, as much as we can to support our concerns and once the facts and information gathering is complete the next phase can begin.
I encourage anyone who wants to see a shift in perception to come on board and get behinds this. As has been demonstrated, we have strength in numbers, more number means more power.
What can you do?
If you are in a car club get your committee onto this as a priority.
If you are on other forums, spread the word and direct forum members to the gruntfiles facebook page or website.
If other forums, clubs, groups are doing something similar to gruntfiles please let me know and if possible, give me contact names. I dont care if they are imports, fords, morris minors, bikes, boats etc. One in, all in as far as I am concerned.
Promote the cause to your friends, work mates, family etc. Ram it home that we ARE NOT HOONS.
This is NOT a campaing to legitimise Burnouts and Street Racing, please be clear on that. This is a campaign to legitimise our hobby in the eyes of the public who have been persuded thus far the we are the same as the hoons. We are not.
Edited by Big T, 15 November 2012 - 10:21 AM.
#265
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:41 AM
As i have stated, both here and on Grunt Files. I will stand up, and support the cause. Being in NSW, i feel like a fish out of water, on the Grunt Files Facebook pages, i think i'm the only guy from NSW who is willing to stand up, and be counted.
So if there are fellow New South Welshmen/women out there, who are willing to stand up, join Grunt Files, and join the cause.
So if there are fellow New South Welshmen/women out there, who are willing to stand up, join Grunt Files, and join the cause.
#266
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:23 PM
Exactly Rob, this is not a QLD issue, this is a National issue. Every state has had a govt and media campaign waged agaist car enthusiasts.
#267
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:46 PM
And just to back ^ that up.....
To quote Tracy Grimshaw at the end of an ACA Super Hoon story "If you have an issue with "car enthusiasts" in your area we would like to hear about it". In that story they used the terms "super hoons", "rev heads" and "car enthusiasts" all in the same context. This is the shit we need to stop.
Video below:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=WbGSLFAwbig
To quote Tracy Grimshaw at the end of an ACA Super Hoon story "If you have an issue with "car enthusiasts" in your area we would like to hear about it". In that story they used the terms "super hoons", "rev heads" and "car enthusiasts" all in the same context. This is the shit we need to stop.
Video below:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=WbGSLFAwbig
#268
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:11 PM
Tony, Les and everyone else behind the scenes that was involved, a very big congratulations and thank you for your efforts in turning around the cruising rule.
#269
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:50 PM
Pleasure mate :-) I was just reading the ford forums seeing what they are doing and noticed Les's post up there. Both he and Neil are from Cairns so I gather they know one another, so good on them for getting together and getting a result. 
Ford guys working with Holden guys for the common good. 'Tis a beautiful thing
Ford guys working with Holden guys for the common good. 'Tis a beautiful thing
#270
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:54 PM
Just have to get everyone else to work together.
#271
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:20 PM
Great result by the Ford club in Cairns and all others involved. A small but nonetheless important milestone.
Just to keep it all in perspective though, the removal of any reference to 'Cruising' on the Qcarrs Hoon fact sheet won't mean the Law has changed, however it may give you ammunition to fight a charge in court.
Please correct or enlighten me if my perception of the issue is incorrect.
Cheers
Dave.
Just to keep it all in perspective though, the removal of any reference to 'Cruising' on the Qcarrs Hoon fact sheet won't mean the Law has changed, however it may give you ammunition to fight a charge in court.
Please correct or enlighten me if my perception of the issue is incorrect.
Cheers
Dave.
#272
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:18 PM
Correct Dave, the removal off the reference has no real bearing on current anti-hoon laws but it does send a message to the researchers that their work is being closely scrutinised. And since the law makers use such research (CARRS-Q research has been used to draft current and proposed legislation) the removal of "cruising" as a hoon activity gives us (that is ALL of us) a bit of a break, not only from future amendments, but also from the media and public. It is step forward in making the distinction between hoon and enthusiast.
Aside from that it is a morale booster, something we desperately need.
I think you will find Rob that as momentum grows more and more groups will work together. Concerned individuals have started to form small groups, those small groups will find other small groups and unite to form larger groups, from there it snowballs.
Chris, is there any buzz on Toymods about this?
If anyone comes across other groups, i.e facebook pages with the same agenda, chuck the details up here. Im happy to get in contact with the key players and have a yarn. If it wasnt for DJ Bomber mentioning gruntfiles was onto this I wouldnt have know and would still be searching for comrades. So thanks Bomber, you rock man
Aside from that it is a morale booster, something we desperately need.
I think you will find Rob that as momentum grows more and more groups will work together. Concerned individuals have started to form small groups, those small groups will find other small groups and unite to form larger groups, from there it snowballs.
Chris, is there any buzz on Toymods about this?
If anyone comes across other groups, i.e facebook pages with the same agenda, chuck the details up here. Im happy to get in contact with the key players and have a yarn. If it wasnt for DJ Bomber mentioning gruntfiles was onto this I wouldnt have know and would still be searching for comrades. So thanks Bomber, you rock man
Edited by Big T, 15 November 2012 - 07:19 PM.
#273
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:11 PM
Tony, i'm sure there will be others in NSW who will join the fight, might be a little slow, but we will catch up. I'll just continue to spread the word where ever i can. I'll keep working with Keith and others to keep the wheels turning, and help where ever i can.
#274
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:17 PM
^ Keep doing what you are doing mate, it is folk like yourself who are needed to keep this going. Just make sure that in keeping those wheels turning you are not losing traction causing undue smoke and noise hahahaha.
If anyone is keen to put their name on a petition, go here http://www.activism....i-hoon-laws/785
Im not sure exactly who started the petition but good on them
If anyone is keen to put their name on a petition, go here http://www.activism....i-hoon-laws/785
Im not sure exactly who started the petition but good on them
#275
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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:25 PM
How diluted are you, how can a simple thing such as cruising with fellow enthusiasts be dangerous or disruptive ?
I know its a big ask to read the whole thread, but if you are going to start flinging muck around its the least you can do before you post. I have also expressed concern regarding the "cruise" clause and would reserve judgement with more clarification, post 36. (diluted?,,,interesting)
If your against minority groups, why are you here on this forum ? If and I mean IF, your a car enthusiast, your a part of this minority group.
Against minority groups? depends what they are up to, if its playing scrabble in their own living rooms not endangering limb and life or disturbing the peace then I really dont have a problem.
Car enthusiast. As I said before, genuine car/motoring enthusiasts should be applauding anything that rids our roads of idiots and their cars. Lumping all car enthusiasts as those who sail close to the wind in terms of modifications to their cars and are prone to "accidental traction loss and street racing incidents" is insulting.
Edited by torbirdie, 15 November 2012 - 08:25 PM.
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