That was very entertaining.
Thankyou.
Myself, i can't see the obsession with little aluminium plates and magical numbers, dragging your car around on a trailer too scared to touch it in case you ruin its "value".
Cars are made to be driven, hard in the case of XU1s.
I'd rather see every XU1 in the country put into the wall than sit around in some blokes shed and do 12 miles a year!
a word of warning
Started by
_LONA-CK_
, Nov 29 2012 08:49 PM
266 replies to this topic
#152
_Skapinad_
_Skapinad_
-
- Guests
Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:24 PM
Lol, i mostly agree except about putting them into walls ...... Rebodies on the other hand!
At any rate this is not the point of the thread.....it is to remind people that welding in body numbers and bodging up cars is not cool....unless ya honest, and dont try to rip people off.
The argument about what constitutes a real or original car is also irelevant.... ASSUMING the seller is honest and divulges all information....at that point the seller can make up their own mind...... If that happened every time, this thread would never have existed..
At any rate this is not the point of the thread.....it is to remind people that welding in body numbers and bodging up cars is not cool....unless ya honest, and dont try to rip people off.
The argument about what constitutes a real or original car is also irelevant.... ASSUMING the seller is honest and divulges all information....at that point the seller can make up their own mind...... If that happened every time, this thread would never have existed..
#153
_1973bathxu1_
_1973bathxu1_
-
- Guests
Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:50 PM
hi ive been reading this thread with interest, i agree with cruisa, do as u wish with these cars providing the tags stay in place, i myself own 6 xu1 toranas 3 of these cars are untouched and low ks and 3 have been restored, so i can go either way i also have an lj gtr ex rally car and an A9X 4 door,so yes i do have a lot o interest in keeping these cars right,i understand where johns comming from, but at the end of the day, these toranas have been parts and taged and resheled for as long as i can remember, half of the owners wouldent have a clue if there car had been reshelled or retaged,etc etc, i know a fella who advertised his lc xu1 some years ago, as concourse condition, a chap in sydney bought it for 22k unseen, photos only,he got this car checked by brian the ex sydney club president, he told the owner that he got robbed and this car is worth between 3 to 5 k at most,it went to court, the judge ruled that because the car was advertised as concourse, and it wasnt but it was in ex cond, my mate got his car back and paid 20k back, this xu1 was sent to my house to resell 2 weeks later i sold the xu1 for 25k but i advertised it as good condition only
the moral of the story is never sell a car which states either totally original or concourse condition, it will bite u on the arse, at any time, eg if taged, reshelled etc has not been told to the buyer,
almost forgot i bought my son an lc gtr with the 3 id tags and he is gonna build it his own way, different trim wheels etc etc
my 2 bobs worth
regards aldo
ps this is the longest post ive put up, as i only use 1 finger its taken me ages
the moral of the story is never sell a car which states either totally original or concourse condition, it will bite u on the arse, at any time, eg if taged, reshelled etc has not been told to the buyer,
almost forgot i bought my son an lc gtr with the 3 id tags and he is gonna build it his own way, different trim wheels etc etc
my 2 bobs worth
regards aldo
ps this is the longest post ive put up, as i only use 1 finger its taken me ages
#154
_AD_75_
_AD_75_
-
- Guests
Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:26 AM
Haha, not bad for a 1 fingered post aldo. 
Another interesting point which somebody brought up is the use of the words "Original" and "Genuine"..i can't count how many times ive seen cars for sale and they are listed as "original XU1" or "original SL/R" yet the same ad states its had fresh paint and an engine rebuild ect ect. To be clear, original is when you have an unrestored as it came out of the factory car.."Genuine" is when you have a numbers matching and inspection verified car.
Back on topic tho! i dont see a problem with calling a car genuine if it can be verified that the car in question was a genuine vehicle prior to having any major structural bodywork done to it..bit tricky these days though unless the car was part of a club or listed on a register, i'll leave that one to the experts.
Another interesting point which somebody brought up is the use of the words "Original" and "Genuine"..i can't count how many times ive seen cars for sale and they are listed as "original XU1" or "original SL/R" yet the same ad states its had fresh paint and an engine rebuild ect ect. To be clear, original is when you have an unrestored as it came out of the factory car.."Genuine" is when you have a numbers matching and inspection verified car.
Back on topic tho! i dont see a problem with calling a car genuine if it can be verified that the car in question was a genuine vehicle prior to having any major structural bodywork done to it..bit tricky these days though unless the car was part of a club or listed on a register, i'll leave that one to the experts.
#155
unclefestal34s
-
- Members
-
- 1,125 posts
Forum Fixture
- Joined: 02-April 07
Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:00 AM
the first car i ever owned was a 72 lj gtr which stayed in my hands for 6 years,..like my most gtr-s it grew up into a wild over powered xu1 style car in its time with me running low 13 second times,muncie gearbox,triple webbers,custom made extractors,detriot locker diff,.etc..i sold the car over a quarter of century ago after it was stripped in my own garage by car thieves..needless to say i sold it 2 weeks later as i couldn't bare the sight of my raped and #@$^%& partner..
i was made aware recently and in no uncertain terms my old white rabbit as it was affectionally known in the family was alive and well with a new identity,hair transplant,nose job the works...
like the late michael jackson its had a colour change its had new organs via donors etc....well guess what the car's a XU1 now and even featured a in a top name mag ....and yes its a genuine XU1...
from the day that car left my hands in 1985 i forgot about it and moved on only a chanced conversation recently reveal its fate....my old car had gone from a second grader to a fully fledged first grader with the ultimate gold medals...
now i'm sure somewhere along this can be explained...my old car was used to ressurect a written off XU1 which happen quite frequently back in the day or somebody scored XU1 id tags and parts and built the car up and changed its identity...there's probaly a million scenarios that could have happen...
People here need to remember that up until the late 90's these car's were just cars and a lot of illegal things done back then have been forgotten and 100% likely a lot of these changed hands a 100's of times especially the amount of rolling XU1 & GTR bodyshells i saw in my time for sale through damage car auctions,trading post..etc just reading some of these posts really amuses me..
You could changed the roof the complete front panels,inner guards,rear cut rear end etc and the car will still be what it is,...some of the problems started when these cars would get rear ended badly and there fronts would be used for cut and shuts with numbers and id staying on giving another car a new life or another body shell would be sourced per insurance company request and body numbers would stay on but id tags would be changed causing all this mis-match in some of these cars....
the law has always stated you cannot not to touch or remove id tags in anyway but smash shops had no problem following insurance company orders..
because our torana's were so poorly thought out when when designed when it came to id tags and chassis numbers this is the long term end result people being able to mess with id tags and numbers..i mean there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to tampered with a holden six engine number unless your trying to change it to benefit from it...
but with a holden v8 the minute you recondition it your removing the engine number in some cases and that can create problems
id tags and chassis numbers should have been fitted else ware to eliminate the need to be touched only viewed
i guess with a lot of hindsight nower days this is easy to question now....
i was made aware recently and in no uncertain terms my old white rabbit as it was affectionally known in the family was alive and well with a new identity,hair transplant,nose job the works...
like the late michael jackson its had a colour change its had new organs via donors etc....well guess what the car's a XU1 now and even featured a in a top name mag ....and yes its a genuine XU1...
from the day that car left my hands in 1985 i forgot about it and moved on only a chanced conversation recently reveal its fate....my old car had gone from a second grader to a fully fledged first grader with the ultimate gold medals...
now i'm sure somewhere along this can be explained...my old car was used to ressurect a written off XU1 which happen quite frequently back in the day or somebody scored XU1 id tags and parts and built the car up and changed its identity...there's probaly a million scenarios that could have happen...
People here need to remember that up until the late 90's these car's were just cars and a lot of illegal things done back then have been forgotten and 100% likely a lot of these changed hands a 100's of times especially the amount of rolling XU1 & GTR bodyshells i saw in my time for sale through damage car auctions,trading post..etc just reading some of these posts really amuses me..
You could changed the roof the complete front panels,inner guards,rear cut rear end etc and the car will still be what it is,...some of the problems started when these cars would get rear ended badly and there fronts would be used for cut and shuts with numbers and id staying on giving another car a new life or another body shell would be sourced per insurance company request and body numbers would stay on but id tags would be changed causing all this mis-match in some of these cars....
the law has always stated you cannot not to touch or remove id tags in anyway but smash shops had no problem following insurance company orders..
because our torana's were so poorly thought out when when designed when it came to id tags and chassis numbers this is the long term end result people being able to mess with id tags and numbers..i mean there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to tampered with a holden six engine number unless your trying to change it to benefit from it...
but with a holden v8 the minute you recondition it your removing the engine number in some cases and that can create problems
id tags and chassis numbers should have been fitted else ware to eliminate the need to be touched only viewed
i guess with a lot of hindsight nower days this is easy to question now....
#156
REDA9X
-
- Inactive
-
- 0 posts
Removed
- Joined: 08-November 05
Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:01 PM
I met a bloke last night who tells me his mate has a bag full of matching plates for "special" cars and a paddock full of old cara to put them onto. He even described the process this guy uses to change the identity of these cars! His mate seems to think its all ok. I think if I was buying a car these days I would be buying one with unquestionable history, there are far too many shonks out there claiming to be something they are not.
#157
_sunburst73-xu1_
_sunburst73-xu1_
-
- Guests
Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:23 PM
I reckon the cars them selfs tell most the story
#158
_Quagmire_
_Quagmire_
-
- Guests
Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:36 PM
youu met richo...do tellI met a bloke last night who tells me his mate has a bag full of matching plates for "special" cars and a paddock full of old cara to put them onto. He even described the process this guy uses to change the identity of these cars! His mate seems to think its all ok. I think if I was buying a car these days I would be buying one with unquestionable history, there are far too many shonks out there claiming to be something they are not.
#159
REDA9X
-
- Inactive
-
- 0 posts
Removed
- Joined: 08-November 05
Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:39 PM
Hahaha it could well be Richo. I didn't meet the guy only met his mate. Funny unclefesta about the car appearing later in a magazine as an XU1, that's been a common thing, have seen plenty over the years and people believe it if it's in print.
#160
_L34 Hooon_
_L34 Hooon_
-
- Guests
Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:20 PM
the first car i ever owned was a 72 lj gtr which stayed in my hands for 6 years,..like my most gtr-s it grew up into a wild over powered xu1 style car in its time with me running low 13 second times,muncie gearbox,triple webbers,custom made extractors,detriot locker diff,.etc..i sold the car over a quarter of century ago after it was stripped in my own garage by car thieves..needless to say i sold it 2 weeks later as i couldn't bare the sight of my raped and #@$^%& partner..
i was made aware recently and in no uncertain terms my old white rabbit as it was affectionally known in the family was alive and well with a new identity,hair transplant,nose job the works...
like the late michael jackson its had a colour change its had new organs via donors etc....well guess what the car's a XU1 now and even featured a in a top name mag ....and yes its a genuine XU1...
from the day that car left my hands in 1985 i forgot about it and moved on only a chanced conversation recently reveal its fate....my old car had gone from a second grader to a fully fledged first grader with the ultimate gold medals...
now i'm sure somewhere along this can be explained...my old car was used to ressurect a written off XU1 which happen quite frequently back in the day or somebody scored XU1 id tags and parts and built the car up and changed its identity...there's probaly a million scenarios that could have happen...
People here need to remember that up until the late 90's these car's were just cars and a lot of illegal things done back then have been forgotten and 100% likely a lot of these changed hands a 100's of times especially the amount of rolling XU1 & GTR bodyshells i saw in my time for sale through damage car auctions,trading post..etc just reading some of these posts really amuses me..
You could changed the roof the complete front panels,inner guards,rear cut rear end etc and the car will still be what it is,...some of the problems started when these cars would get rear ended badly and there fronts would be used for cut and shuts with numbers and id staying on giving another car a new life or another body shell would be sourced per insurance company request and body numbers would stay on but id tags would be changed causing all this mis-match in some of these cars....
the law has always stated you cannot not to touch or remove id tags in anyway but smash shops had no problem following insurance company orders..
because our torana's were so poorly thought out when when designed when it came to id tags and chassis numbers this is the long term end result people being able to mess with id tags and numbers..i mean there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to tampered with a holden six engine number unless your trying to change it to benefit from it...
but with a holden v8 the minute you recondition it your removing the engine number in some cases and that can create problems
id tags and chassis numbers should have been fitted else ware to eliminate the need to be touched only viewed
i guess with a lot of hindsight nower days this is easy to question now....
Are you practising to write a book Joe, nicely paragraphed and all. As Howard Marsden once said * Of the 300 GT-HO Phase III,s produced there may be as few as 500 remaining * The same can be said about our toranas.
#161
_mikecatts_
_mikecatts_
-
- Guests
Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:59 AM
Are you practising to write a book Joe, nicely paragraphed and all. As Howard Marsden once said * Of the 300 GT-HO Phase III,s produced there may be as few as 500 remaining * The same can be said about our toranas.
LOL....
#162
enderwigginau
-
- Moderators
-
- 2,000,527 posts
Admin Wrangler
- Name:Grant
- Location:Parramatta
- Car:76 LX Sedan, 4 seater
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:29 PM
People keep saying that lately, but there's a big difference between dodgy-ing up a GT and creating an XU1.As Howard Marsden once said * Of the 300 GT-HO Phase III,s produced there may be as few as 500 remaining * The same can be said about our toranas.
For a start, GTR/XU-1s need 82911 on the tags.......GTs don't have anything to definitively ident them........just a wide date range and all the "good" bits fitted.
Yes there are XU-1 around that are not the real deal, but considering the attrition rate I and many more qualified than myself doubt there are more around than we're produced.
Grant..
#163
_hqgts_
_hqgts_
-
- Guests
Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:02 PM
For a start, GTR/XU-1s need 82911 on the tags.......GTs don't have anything to definitively ident them........just a wide date range and all the "good" bits fitted.
This statement is not correct.... On a GT Falcon id tag they have unique identifiers in the prefix and the code JG33 is unique to the GT... Also the model number is unique to GT as well...
#164
_red roar_
_red roar_
-
- Guests
Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:08 PM
This statement is not correct.... On a GT Falcon id tag they have unique identifiers in the prefix and the code JG33 is unique to the GT... Also the model number is unique to GT as well...
Accurate info here, HQ GTS is onto it. You can also add JG66 as a GT coupe.
#166
enderwigginau
-
- Moderators
-
- 2,000,527 posts
Admin Wrangler
- Name:Grant
- Location:Parramatta
- Car:76 LX Sedan, 4 seater
- Joined: 04-February 07
Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:16 PM
But that's ny two numbers easily pressed into a dodgy tag........
And you very well know how many ave been done like that.......
And you very well know how many ave been done like that.......
#167
_Agent 34_
_Agent 34_
-
- Guests
Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:36 PM
Was told by the ( professional ) that it would be easier to cut and shut my gtr rather than repair it. I'm an honest person and whilst the rust repairs were extensive . The chassis and the inner guard and the three tags and the motor are all together and as per they left the factory. It's a piece of mind thing for me.
It would have been cheaper to " cut and shut". - but that would have been dodgy and I'm not dodgy.
three cents.
#168
lakeside
-
- Members
-
- 2,703 posts
Lotsa Posts!
- Name:Col
- Location:melb
- Car:LC SBC
- Joined: 07-November 05
Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:31 PM
How much of the car do you have to keep to call it original?
Is fitting your XU1 front on to another car or replacing 80% of the shell because of rust, new brand trim and $$$$$$$$ spent eBay for parts, called original?
Is fitting your XU1 front on to another car or replacing 80% of the shell because of rust, new brand trim and $$$$$$$$ spent eBay for parts, called original?
#169
_threeblindmice_
_threeblindmice_
-
- Guests
Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:11 PM
Only if you want to change the meaning of the word ,.
#170
RallyRed
-
- Members
-
- 8,147 posts
Oh My, Don't you post alot
- Name:Col
- Location:NSW
- Car:LC GTR etc
- Joined: 02-October 11
Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:21 PM
Hi John ( original poster )....this thread is a good one and has covered some ground.....but back to the original comment.....have you had to 'out' anyone yet?
#171
lakeside
-
- Members
-
- 2,703 posts
Lotsa Posts!
- Name:Col
- Location:melb
- Car:LC SBC
- Joined: 07-November 05
Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:37 PM
Being serious here, do we start dobbing in people who re shell a Torana? I seen a few being done while out buying parts but that's their problem and not mine.
#172
_Got1UR1_
_Got1UR1_
-
- Guests
Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:11 PM
It is only your problem when you get dudded, ask the member who bought a "genuine, original" SLR/5000. Posted pics here for all to see, then got told his car was not what he thought he paid for. He very quickly returned the car and received his hard earned $$$$$ back. Should of threatened the seller with the fraud squad, kept the car and got nearly all of his $$$$$ back..............Dont ask how I know, but this was absolute fraud on the sellers part.
#173
S pack
-
- Members
-
- 15,721 posts
Scrivet Counter
- Name:Dave
- Location:Luggage Point
- Car:73 LJ
- Joined: 25-January 10
Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:44 PM
Being serious here, do we start dobbing in people who re shell a Torana? I seen a few being done while out buying parts but that's their problem and not mine.
Maybe not publicly for all the world to see, but If I was going to spend tens of thousands of $$$$ on a genuine original muscle car that isn't what it is claimed to be then I would appreciate being informed (on the QT at least) by someone who knows the difference between the real deal and a fake.
These cars are not just cars, to some people they are an investment. Not a real good investment ATM though with prices going up and down like a roller coaster.
#174
wot179
-
- Members
-
- 6,784 posts
Green Eggs and Spam
- Name:Jesus Bloody Christ
- Location:Sunny Santa Maria
- Car:Goon
- Joined: 06-February 09
Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:13 AM
Was told by the ( professional ) that it would be easier to cut and shut my gtr rather than repair it. I'm an honest person and whilst the rust repairs were extensive . The chassis and the inner guard and the three tags and the motor are all together and as per they left the factory. It's a piece of mind thing for me.
It would have been cheaper to " cut and shut". - but that would have been dodgy and I'm not dodgy.
three cents.
I dont reckon there is much difference between a car that has been cut and shut and one that has had the front guards,the A pillars, the sills and the rear quarters replaced when it comes to describing a car as "original".
Of course,thats just an opinion.
Im glad you got it back together,regardless.
#175
xu2308
-
- Members
-
- 4,704 posts
Grail Hunter
- Name:AL
- Location:Belconnen ACT
- Car:SMP LJ GTR V8 Prototype-Confirmed By HHS and Ex GMH XW7 Engineers
- Joined: 09-April 09
Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:29 AM
I agree WOT179, what is the difference and a shut and cut if done in a safe manner is still the same car by law
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
