hi....to me I'd be filthy if I bought a cut and shut that I THOUGHT / WAS TOLD was 'original'.
Sure 'original' means so many things to so many people....but a car that's had a new front/rear grafted on, to me at least , is not "original" as I see it.
The actual cut and shut may have been done so well that it really doesn't matter, however it sort of spoils the dream that you have a car that is just as it left the GMH plant.
I guess simply put...and I think some else has already said it....
There are 2 cars for sale , both the same model,year,colour,miles/km, options and price -
1 is cut and shut
1 is not cut and shut
Which one would you buy?
Most people would have an inherent desire to buy the uncut one, I would think?
Alternately, you find a real rare car, you like it, it is in your price range and you know they are getting really hard to find...you are told/figure out that it a cut and shut...probably buy it any way if its been done well ( assuming you can determine that)
just my ideas, probably not everyones
a word of warning
Started by
_LONA-CK_
, Nov 29 2012 08:49 PM
266 replies to this topic
#176
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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:47 AM
#177
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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:12 AM
I agree WOT179, what is the difference and a shut and cut if done in a safe manner is still the same car by law
I'm with you Al. I'd rather see a car repaired that way than try and patch up rust that is going to come back. I'm not sure how many W size 1-tonners, utes and vans i've seen repaired that way over the years, by replacing the whole firewall/floor with a sedan/wagon/statesman firewall and front floor from the windscreen pillars right around to the factory front-rear floor joint. Once finished you'd never know. This is how i'd repair a rusty Sandman today if I had to, and it'd still be a Sandman. I do understand where Jon is coming from though, repairing a car vs deliberately defrauding someone are very different things. Lots of cars were "restored" in the 80's using a new shell as it was less work. Normally they'd have used the wrong shell and are easy to spot, but i'm sure there are plenty of these around today that people think are the real thing albeit an older resto, and will eventually sell them as the real thing. So as far as I am concerned it is still "buyer beware", but if you are selling use plenty of photos and let people make their own minds up, don't make any claims you cannot prove in court!
#178
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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:30 AM
repairing a car vs deliberately defrauding someone are very different things. Lots of cars were "restored" in the 80's using a new shell as it was less work. Normally they'd have used the wrong shell and are easy to spot, but i'm sure there are plenty of these around today that people think are the real thing albeit an older resto, and will eventually sell them as the real thing. So as far as I am concerned it is still "buyer beware", but if you are selling use plenty of photos and let people make their own minds up, don't make any claims you cannot prove in court!
I think you have hit the nail on top of the head with that line.
There is a big difference between a genuine repair and fraud, whether it be done by a pro or a back yard enthusiast, yesterday or 20yr ago.
#179
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Posted 06 April 2013 - 05:30 AM
repairing a car vs deliberately defrauding someone are very different things
spot on.
i mean to say i have a 9-73 lj gtr here that has had a shut and cut and it was done back in the 80s, not really well hidden, but i could hide it and sell it on as a real clean original gtr and get top dollar, but i must sleep easy with that.
i also have a lc gtr here with a sunroof and a fxxked boot floor, one rear quarter is gone too, do i shut and cut this car and tell no one.
RallyRed
Hi John ( original poster )....this thread is a good one and has covered some ground.....but back to the original comment.....have you had to 'out' anyone yet?
answer to your question mate i try hard not to by given the buyer and seller the info needed when i know and hoping that the seller then gives the buyer the truth, sometimes the buyer just keeps it on the quiet, but no doubt gets the car at the justifid price for what it is, its only when people are sold cars as a re-birthed car for little coin and then passes it on to someone that dont know that much with added xu1 or gtr tags and it triples in price, like the car at the start of this thread, because that is deliberately defrauding.
cheers gong
#180
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Posted 06 April 2013 - 07:05 AM
I recently visited a guy and his collection of muscle cars,there was a claimed xu1 he had bought,the front inner guard number was incorrect to tags,he had bought it off ebay without looking first,the story from the sella was it was crashed and a replacement guard used to repair,this is after car is in his shed,and paid for.Anyway i checked the car over and this is still possible.
He then rings one of the biggest dealers of XU1 parts and restorations in the country,he recommends to cut a driver side inner guard out of another car,send it to him,they will dissect the guard and he will restamp the number for him,and will show how to do job.I wont mention WHO on an open forum,BUT what chance do you have when SOME of the dealers are crooked!!!They also (research) this forum for more info on every trick needed,right down to every date code.
Now ill load the weapons,and wait i guess!
Funny,there is 2 cars with same numbers,and no one is game to talk about,so where is this leading to.
Top end cars rarely end up in the market place,sold behind closed doors.
The dealer has not spoken in this thread as far as i can see,but has contacts watching i imagine.
Edited by 73BATHXU1HTBATH350, 06 April 2013 - 07:15 AM.
#181
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Posted 06 April 2013 - 07:20 AM
Two cars running around with the same numbers is not at all cool.
#182
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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:40 PM
I recently visited a guy and his collection of muscle cars,there was a claimed xu1 he had bought,the front inner guard number was incorrect to tags,he had bought it off ebay without looking first,the story from the sella was it was crashed and a replacement guard used to repair,this is after car is in his shed,and paid for.Anyway i checked the car over and this is still possible.
He then rings one of the biggest dealers of XU1 parts and restorations in the country,he recommends to cut a driver side inner guard out of another car,send it to him,they will dissect the guard and he will restamp the number for him,and will show how to do job.I wont mention WHO on an open forum,BUT what chance do you have when SOME of the dealers are crooked!!!They also (research) this forum for more info on every trick needed,right down to every date code.
Now ill load the weapons,and wait i guess!
Funny,there is 2 cars with same numbers,and no one is game to talk about,so where is this leading to.
Top end cars rarely end up in the market place,sold behind closed doors.
The dealer has not spoken in this thread as far as i can see,but has contacts watching i imagine.
This is in regards to a certain hatch im assuming?
I agree with an earlier comment made in regards to the value of these cars as investments, i dont really think they are an ideal investment its more a case of get what you want at a price you can afford and be happy with that! if you're lucky you may get your money back when you decide to sell.
#183
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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:58 PM
73BATHXU1HTBATH350
He then rings one of the biggest dealers of XU1 parts and restorations in the country,he recommends to cut a driver side inner guard out of another car,send it to him,they will dissect the guard and he will restamp the number for him,and will show how to do job.I wont mention WHO on an open forum,BUT what chance do you have when SOME of the dealers are crooked!!!They also (research) this forum for more info on every trick needed,right down to every date code.
thats ok craig, as the changers are a body bit and not in the date code, so if he or she thinks getting away with dodgy things like that wont come back and bite his work on the ass, more full him.
and just so you all know ever year model is diffrent in there own ways.
cheers gong
#185
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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:05 PM
.
The dealer has not spoken in this thread as far as i can see,but has contacts watching i imagine.
So long as they know we know.thats ok craig, as the changers are a body bit and not in the date code, so if he or she thinks getting away with dodgy things like that wont come back and bite his work on the ass, more full him.
and just so you all know ever year model is diffrent in there own ways.
cheers gong
This is why I and others tell everyone to post your numbers and details, as it protects you more than hiding your tags under the bed.
If you are a seller, and someone tells you here that there is something dodgy, confirm it with those members that will know for certain.
If you are a buyer, you want to know all is correct, or matches the price you are preparing to pay.
It is not this site that is the final word, it is the community encompassing all those with bucket loads of time and knowledge invested in these cars.
And we do have contacts within the countries police forces, many of whom browse here when possible.........
Grant..
#186
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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:03 PM
this add is specified for those whom think they can just take any year and model and turn it into an xu1 i have 20 plus years of hands on ex with these cars and i know by telling people my findings that these changers can be made, it want matter what book you read or what info you have unless you know what i do you will be court out, i would reconmend any one that is buying an xu1 to contact me and we will talk over the car has i dont want anyone getting robbed any more, also to the people that have re birthed the 71 and 73 bathurst cars for making money out of, you are all ass holes and busted, i will not under cut anyone wanting to know about the car there looking at so you can feel safe with asking or giving me photos and numbers to a car your looking at, but in saying this i will not give the details of the body changers to people to look for them selfs, i have great confadence in bazza and his numbers but im sure he will give me the same respect about the bodys
your call
cheers gong
I am looking for a LJXU1 would you be able to let me no if any are for sale,preferibly an 73 LJ XU1 with all matching no's
#187
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 05:41 PM
here is a little story for you fellers take it how you want but use this info in the right way...
in 1971 gmh had a plan to build the LJ torana and with this car they also planed to place a radio in the dash but like the early 69 and 70 model lc the radio would hit the back of the dash where the wiper arms bolt up
as can be seen in these pics above^^^
so in 1971 gmh changed the shells and added a recess like in these pics
and my 71 CK BATHURST
wham bam
cheers gong
#188
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 05:54 PM
Wow. Cool, thanks for that bit of info. Quirky.
So up until that change, did Torana's not have a radio in the dash? Sorry. I don't know much about little Torana's.
So up until that change, did Torana's not have a radio in the dash? Sorry. I don't know much about little Torana's.
Edited by hanra, 22 June 2013 - 05:57 PM.
#191
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:11 PM
the lc had a under dash radio and bracket.
cheers gong
#192
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:19 PM
Ahhhh well there you go. Thanks for that info. Probably an obvious difference if you know Your little Torana's. I had no idea!!! Hahahahaha.
Good one.
Good one.
#193
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:13 PM
Just a point I'd like to make here, as has been mentioned and as far as I was aware, swapping tags is itself illegal so who is going to tell a potential buyer that they themselves have re-bodied a car unless they know that person extremely well and know that the car will NEVER be sold again... ?
For cars such as HQ to WB's and early Camaros etc swapping the chassis number requires no cut and shut or welding in, only a tag / chassis swap, for example. I am aware that it is quite legal to re-chassis these cars if the RTA is informed but a tag swap is something else again.
Even putting Belmont tags / chassis on a Monaro is highly illegal AFAIK, not that it is likely to occur...
#194
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:17 PM
who is going to tell a potential buyer that they themselves have re-bodied a car unless they know that person extremely well and know that the car will NEVER be sold again... ?
I dont get this bit ?
#195
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:41 PM
And this is just one of many changes that Gong has pointed out in these shells. Not only LC but LJ as well.
#196
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:09 PM
I dont get this bit ?
Re-bodying a car would require a tag swap wouldn't it... ?
#197
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:13 PM
More the knowing the person well something bit.... The whole statement confused me... Am a little slow.
#198
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:17 PM
I mean that you would be admitting to a criminal act to a stranger. So someone might be more inclined to take the chance that it would not be noticed.
#199
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:19 PM
Ahhhhh geez stop beating arounds the bush ! Lol.
#200
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:30 PM
I mean that you would be admitting to a criminal act to a stranger. So someone might be more inclined to take the chance that it would not be noticed.
If you rebodied a car, esp a valuable model you'd be completely stupid if you admitted it to a potential buyer.
I expect dodgy people would lie through their back teeth to deny the car is, or claim they didn't know the car is a rebody when they get caught out by someone who can spot the irregularities.
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