Well I'm going to be upgrading gearbox and diff regardless once the cars done on the rotisserie brakes are upgraded so as far and $ go I'm thinking about maybe going a 350 crate or 383 as they are reasonably priced and plenty of people have fitted them with easy
How much $$ to build a strong 202
Started by
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, Dec 16 2012 10:16 PM
105 replies to this topic
#29
yel327
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:09 PM
Then another 5k to make it all fit if your half competent on the tools, 10 if your not.
Not everyone likes v8's.........Nor does everyone feel the need to put a v8 in absolutely every torana on the face of the earth.
Jokes about 6 vs V8 aside, and comparing apples with apples:
If you are looking towards a V8 conversion, regardless of what it is you have to but radiator, mounts, exhaust, better diff and tailshaft plus whatever else is needed.
The injected 304 bolts straight in using standard Torana and Holden V8 bits, so sump, pickup, dipstick, mounts, radiator, rad hoses etc. Cast iron exhaust manifolds off VR on work well. TH700R4 will fit using a modified or off the shelf TH350 crossmember. People sell throttle cables on Ebay ready to go. Move the battry and all VN-VSIII cables, fusebox etc all work. Buy an off the shelf swirl pot (American autos), HQ-HZ TH400 shifter operates the box. Little bit of plumbing to get the airbox hose to line up.
Yes wiring is a bit of mucking around if you aren't familiar for about $750 exhange you can get a harness ready to plug and play.
And with a cam change if you are keen and a modded memcal these engines go really well, especially in a light car like an LX. Throw in a set of 3.45 gears and it'll go real hard.
You can buy a whole car for $3000 or thereabouts : VQ on Statesman. Sell the rest remaining.
#30
WhaleOilBeefHooked
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:37 PM
Once fitted a monster like this with 56/94 or close to, Lobes were taller than inside diameter of bearing shells and camshaft had to be hammered into block.. Was a WILD RIDE...I see you are playing Ball with us again,
Wake the little Six up with a 52/ 90 11,000rpm knifed crank to scare your little mitts off
#31
N/A-PWR
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:08 PM
Once fitted a monster like this with 56/94 or close to, Lobes were taller than inside diameter of bearing shells and camshaft had to be hammered into block.. Was a WILD RIDE...
Wow WHALEOILBEEFHOOKED,
I am amazed, we had to tow the tory to start it. Dave I
#32
wot179
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Green Eggs and Spam
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:33 PM
Go with a 15/16ths race cam...at least 1/16th streetable.
#33
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:03 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself.If you want a cheap, reliable and OK on fuel daily driver you can't beat an injected 304 conversion. Even cheaper if you run an auto like a TH350 or even the 4L60 from the donor car. Probably the cheapest and easiest conversion and hp uprgrade money can buy.
#34
_Last-Rites_
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:35 PM
Go the 350 mate. Honestly a hell of a lot cheaper for more power and better future prospects.
#35
_Quagmire_
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:15 AM
there are pros and cons to both the 304 and 350
you have to work out what you want
and how much you have to spend
i've got the same delimeia for my stato project
mind you i know of a smashed vs with a vt roller block in it going for 1k
you have to work out what you want
and how much you have to spend
i've got the same delimeia for my stato project
mind you i know of a smashed vs with a vt roller block in it going for 1k
#36
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:43 AM
Hi All,
For a daily driver Tory, you need to impress, loud lumpy idle and a quick get up and go.
To achieve this, is a good Lumpy Comp Thumpr ® cam grind, single exhaust system with a straight through muffler ( be it 6 or an 8 ) and shiny. Dave I
For a daily driver Tory, you need to impress, loud lumpy idle and a quick get up and go.
To achieve this, is a good Lumpy Comp Thumpr ® cam grind, single exhaust system with a straight through muffler ( be it 6 or an 8 ) and shiny. Dave I
#37
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:28 PM
My sympathies go to the OP and his simple question.
The anwer is somewhere between $2500 and $10000 depending on every variable known to mankind.
RIP,thread.
The anwer is somewhere between $2500 and $10000 depending on every variable known to mankind.
RIP,thread.
#38
yel327
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:31 PM
I just got offered a good condition unopended good compression VT 195kW engine complete today for $1150. It was a manual (Getrag rubbish!). One of these in a Torana with a properly built TH350 behind it would be a good thing in an LX!
#39
Uncle Chop Chop
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:22 PM
My sympathies go to the OP and his simple question.
The anwer is somewhere between $2500 and $10000 depending on every variable known to mankind.
RIP,thread.
The problem is that simple questions often have many answers.
#40
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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:30 AM
I think the question was already well and truly answered by yel327 back in post #29 - you can drop in a 304 for much less than it would cost to do a decent 202.
#41
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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:49 PM
i've beein in quiet a few stock 304 powerd cars, i think dollar for dollar you would still be better off with the six performance wise.
#42
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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:08 AM
No chance. Ask Craig (73BATHXU1HTBATH350) about his WB tonner. Good used red 308 with VN top end and mild cam (he'd have the cam specs), VN 180kW memcal and knock sensor, standard VN headers with single exhaust and Muncie with 3.36 gears. Goes like the clappers for a 308. Feels as quick as any old carbied 350 Chev I ever owned.
#43
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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:56 PM
Honestly,this has been a great combo for me,the amount of towing this engine has done for me is unbelievable.
i started with a red bottom end,stuck on VN heads,injection etc.The wiring is off the vn,i kept the fuse for injection and from memory ,nar thats rooted i,d have to go and have a look,but used 2 fuses in the VN fuse holder,stuck the computer behind passanger kick panel,from the computer ran 2 wires to power,in ignition.
I have a low pressure pump external to tank,it feeds a swirl pot,the a VL turbo high pressure pump for fuel rail,return line just runs back to filler neck in tank.I,ve never experienced fuel starvation like my friends with in tank pumps,they seen to have problems when under quarter of a tank.
As for reliability ,starts first go every time ,even below freezing and idles perfectly,is cammy,try that with a carby and no throttle.The engine has been flogged at high revs many times,i,ve been waiting for it to fly apart,10 years later and its still a pearler.
Up against LS1 ss ute,will stay a wisker in front, but i run out of gears and legs ,very impressive for something that cost not much.
If you look in my outback adventure thread,you will see the work it has done,i,ve only ever changed oil,and cleaned air filter,that reminds me those plugs would be rooted by now.
Best part all bolts in,muncie is a great box with just a 10 bolt LSD.
i started with a red bottom end,stuck on VN heads,injection etc.The wiring is off the vn,i kept the fuse for injection and from memory ,nar thats rooted i,d have to go and have a look,but used 2 fuses in the VN fuse holder,stuck the computer behind passanger kick panel,from the computer ran 2 wires to power,in ignition.
I have a low pressure pump external to tank,it feeds a swirl pot,the a VL turbo high pressure pump for fuel rail,return line just runs back to filler neck in tank.I,ve never experienced fuel starvation like my friends with in tank pumps,they seen to have problems when under quarter of a tank.
As for reliability ,starts first go every time ,even below freezing and idles perfectly,is cammy,try that with a carby and no throttle.The engine has been flogged at high revs many times,i,ve been waiting for it to fly apart,10 years later and its still a pearler.
Up against LS1 ss ute,will stay a wisker in front, but i run out of gears and legs ,very impressive for something that cost not much.
If you look in my outback adventure thread,you will see the work it has done,i,ve only ever changed oil,and cleaned air filter,that reminds me those plugs would be rooted by now.
Best part all bolts in,muncie is a great box with just a 10 bolt LSD.
#44
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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:04 PM
go a RB25/26. good on fuel. haul ass and will pass rego no worries. can buy them rebuilt for about $4000. Standard would blow a 202 and prob 304 away. chuck a hair dryer on it and it will boot. look how many fast VL's there are around.
or the new thing to do is the toyota motor. 1ZJ think they are called. they go hard!!!!
Stav if you want something even more different my mate has 2x cars for sale. VR/VS 1's a black ute with L67 Supercharged V6 and Other is a Turboed V6 Sedan 5spd man (runs low 13's from memory) . Both run Great and prob worth about 5K ea. think he is asking about 6k for both. Doesn't use them as he just bought a new VW sports thing. Rip the motor/gearbox out and sell the reat. Parts alone would be worth a bit and prob pay its self off. Expesh up here. Bloody rip off!!.
I'd buy the sedan just for a strap car but i got 2 already so no point.
or the new thing to do is the toyota motor. 1ZJ think they are called. they go hard!!!!
Stav if you want something even more different my mate has 2x cars for sale. VR/VS 1's a black ute with L67 Supercharged V6 and Other is a Turboed V6 Sedan 5spd man (runs low 13's from memory) . Both run Great and prob worth about 5K ea. think he is asking about 6k for both. Doesn't use them as he just bought a new VW sports thing. Rip the motor/gearbox out and sell the reat. Parts alone would be worth a bit and prob pay its self off. Expesh up here. Bloody rip off!!.
I'd buy the sedan just for a strap car but i got 2 already so no point.
Edited by injlc304, 21 December 2012 - 03:18 PM.
#45
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#46
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Posted 21 December 2012 - 05:37 PM
yel327, before all this bullshit started this was the post i was commenting on.
Then we start comparing apples with bananas and suddenly our bog stock auto 304 became cammed up, manual, chipped, possibly extractors, frOck knows what else.
Reviewing your list of things you need i cant see any way you could have one in a car for less than 2k bog stock, not an extra thing done to it, unless you spent five years chasing up bargain parts. I think im being conservative with that estimate, btw.
What i was saying is with my experience, having been in a few, an hell even driven a manual 5L VS ute (before you belt on about heavy, there not THAT heavy, i think there doughey dog rooting peices of shit. I honestly think for 2k i could put together a 202 that would be just as reliable and a fair bit nicer to drive, more responsive an dare i say quicker down the strip. You woulnt need to do much after all, and considering were talking about a non reconditioned 304 that probably has 400,000km for that money i dont think a re ring is even needed in my 2k budget!!
Insult to injury, my $1000 turboed engine in the LH walked past the particular VS ute i had a bit of a drive of.........
So if your talking putting in a cam, chip, extractors, etc, i can see our budget to get our "stock' 304 in there going towards 3k real quick. Recon i could put together a pretty nice little turboed holden six for 3k, and i would put the same amount of money on what would come out infront on the black dyno.....keeping in mind were still talking a 400k old engine in regards to our cammed chiped etc 304 i recon reliability would be similar to.
i disagree with this to, as i've personally walked away from three different NA skylines and two VL's back when i had a 173 that owed me $400 in the LJ.
Also disagree that turboing one is necessarily even better, as i walked a mates turboed VL with my turboed LH!! My engine owed me less than $1000 in that car, how much would it cost to get a RB30DET into one? More than that i will tells ya.
Now, im not dissaggreeing that if your chasing hp either of these are a bad way to go. They will both shit on a little holden six dollar for dollar if you choose to push a few mos in. What shits me is people mentioning bog stock engines that im very very certain wont come close for the same kinda money once you fit it. If your chasing budget performance in a nice streeter and already have a holden six fitted, keep it. If your chasing budget performance for now and a nice streeter in a car already equipped with a hoden six, but wish to push it a lot more later in the set, then fit something else.
Cheers.
If you want a cheap, reliable and OK on fuel daily driver you can't beat an injected 304 conversion. Even cheaper if you run an auto like a TH350 or even the 4L60 from the donor car. Probably the cheapest and easiest conversion and hp uprgrade money can buy.
Then we start comparing apples with bananas and suddenly our bog stock auto 304 became cammed up, manual, chipped, possibly extractors, frOck knows what else.
Reviewing your list of things you need i cant see any way you could have one in a car for less than 2k bog stock, not an extra thing done to it, unless you spent five years chasing up bargain parts. I think im being conservative with that estimate, btw.
What i was saying is with my experience, having been in a few, an hell even driven a manual 5L VS ute (before you belt on about heavy, there not THAT heavy, i think there doughey dog rooting peices of shit. I honestly think for 2k i could put together a 202 that would be just as reliable and a fair bit nicer to drive, more responsive an dare i say quicker down the strip. You woulnt need to do much after all, and considering were talking about a non reconditioned 304 that probably has 400,000km for that money i dont think a re ring is even needed in my 2k budget!!
Insult to injury, my $1000 turboed engine in the LH walked past the particular VS ute i had a bit of a drive of.........
So if your talking putting in a cam, chip, extractors, etc, i can see our budget to get our "stock' 304 in there going towards 3k real quick. Recon i could put together a pretty nice little turboed holden six for 3k, and i would put the same amount of money on what would come out infront on the black dyno.....keeping in mind were still talking a 400k old engine in regards to our cammed chiped etc 304 i recon reliability would be similar to.
go a RB25/26. good on fuel. haul ass and will pass rego no worries. can buy them rebuilt for about $4000. Standard would blow a 202 and prob 304 away. chuck a hair dryer on it and it will boot. look how many fast VL's there are around.
i disagree with this to, as i've personally walked away from three different NA skylines and two VL's back when i had a 173 that owed me $400 in the LJ.
Also disagree that turboing one is necessarily even better, as i walked a mates turboed VL with my turboed LH!! My engine owed me less than $1000 in that car, how much would it cost to get a RB30DET into one? More than that i will tells ya.
Now, im not dissaggreeing that if your chasing hp either of these are a bad way to go. They will both shit on a little holden six dollar for dollar if you choose to push a few mos in. What shits me is people mentioning bog stock engines that im very very certain wont come close for the same kinda money once you fit it. If your chasing budget performance in a nice streeter and already have a holden six fitted, keep it. If your chasing budget performance for now and a nice streeter in a car already equipped with a hoden six, but wish to push it a lot more later in the set, then fit something else.
Cheers.
#47
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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:21 PM
Wont let me edit, but to elaborate further, i dont particularly dislike veeates like most people think i do......
Infact, i've already picked out the Shaffroff that will be going between the rails of the lj if it ever gets defected to the point i go frOck it its not on the street anymore....If my budget cant stretch to a Nelson of course......It just annoys the frOck out of me how everyone belts on about them in there standard form as if there gods gift to mankind just because they have that stupid veeate cackle. "mate, that sounds like a V8, we best crack another VB and celebrate this" Fact is in stock form there not overly great, in stock form a holen six isnt overly spectacular either though....
The only reason i particularly dislike RB's is because every frOckwit goes "omg uleh just chuck like a full sick bog stock rbdirty DET in2 it it will be like full hektik like my cousins dogs breeders brothers sisters boyfriends mates full sik vl turbo that pulls mad driffffts bro and de sluts dey love da bov uleh ey?"
Personally i quiet like the toyota J series of engines though....1j, 2j......Mmmmmmm 2j. 2j will cock its leg and piss on any 308/4 dollar for dollar once you start chasing hp....
Whats better than that?? Cubes before technology always seems to win, The BAXR6-T engines are proving rather stout, hehehehe......
Infact, i've already picked out the Shaffroff that will be going between the rails of the lj if it ever gets defected to the point i go frOck it its not on the street anymore....If my budget cant stretch to a Nelson of course......It just annoys the frOck out of me how everyone belts on about them in there standard form as if there gods gift to mankind just because they have that stupid veeate cackle. "mate, that sounds like a V8, we best crack another VB and celebrate this" Fact is in stock form there not overly great, in stock form a holen six isnt overly spectacular either though....
The only reason i particularly dislike RB's is because every frOckwit goes "omg uleh just chuck like a full sick bog stock rbdirty DET in2 it it will be like full hektik like my cousins dogs breeders brothers sisters boyfriends mates full sik vl turbo that pulls mad driffffts bro and de sluts dey love da bov uleh ey?"
Personally i quiet like the toyota J series of engines though....1j, 2j......Mmmmmmm 2j. 2j will cock its leg and piss on any 308/4 dollar for dollar once you start chasing hp....
Whats better than that?? Cubes before technology always seems to win, The BAXR6-T engines are proving rather stout, hehehehe......
Edited by Bomber Watson, 21 December 2012 - 06:24 PM.
#48
_V6 UC_
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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:35 PM
Dollar for dollar te 1j or 2j will hose anything that came ou in a Holden. Why not just put a v6 in it...
*ducks and RUNS*
*ducks and RUNS*
#49
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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:37 PM
All the bentedness of a veeate without the benefit (only benefit) of cubic inches???
*grins like a madman*
*grins like a madman*
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