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60 degrees static ignition timing?

Started by _Bluejinx202_ , Dec 24 2012 07:06 PM

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134 replies to this topic

#101 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:17 PM

Pretty sure i'd manage, and also pretty sure i stated i wanted the boat before you did (previous thread)

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#102 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:37 AM

There's only one way to settle this.
Give it to me.
Good to hear it's at least usable now. Did you try more valve lash? I'm sure it would help a little.

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#103 _Bluejinx202_

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:21 AM

Here you go fellas they aren't hard to find, and I think mine will be with me till the end...

http://m.boatsales.c...ils/?R=13638431

I didn't try the valve lash, it's set at .022 at the moment, what would I set them to and what would be a sign that they are right or wrong.

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#104 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:07 PM

Give it about 0.028.

Edited by oldjohnno, 12 March 2013 - 12:11 PM.

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#105 _Bluejinx202_

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

Give it about 0.028.

Just the inlets?

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#106 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:37 PM

I'd be inclined to do both, but at least the inlets

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#107 _stretchlc_

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:07 PM

Here we go Bomber.....Grab this!

http://www.ebay.com....=item2ec6e7d4ad

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#108 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

Pretty sexual.

Out of my budget and out of my state.

I think i have two logical options....

1) rip and sell the mid mount 308 gear out of my boat, go inline six and Z drive. Cut and shunt top half of boat (lucky i can glass) to make everything fit (incl me!!) Can always add wood venere to the top half when im done.....

2) Sell my boat and buy rear mount v drive boat from the states, sell big block when it gets here and fit a 292 inline six chev with a blower.....Again if i want a "woody" i can just wood venere it......

Oh yeah, option 3, and the one i will probably persue for the forseeable future, keep playing with the dirty bent eight type anchor it has now, after all, it is reliable and goes well.

I could try rear mounting a six in my boat with a V drive, but as it sits with two largish lads in the back the boat starts porpousing like a motherfrOcker at about 60kph and up....So not confident how it would go with the weight change.

Hmmmm

Edited by Bomber Watson, 12 March 2013 - 08:18 PM.

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#109 _Bluejinx202_

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:49 PM

Still haven't put the new/old engine back together. Trying to get my head around the dynamic compression ratio thing at the moment. If I use an online calculator it shows that to achieve the 9:1 dynamic that OJ suggests on his site, I need 12.2:1 static for the comp cam I have here in its box still. I need about 13.5:1 for the wade 949a that I was using with the massive timing (40deg locked with 11.2:1 static) so up till now, all makes sense... The wade cam had low dyn comp, needed heaps of ign timing to work, so change the cam and run the comp to match it properly and all will be good. Only thing is, when I had the wade cam with the 12 port and the 6 throttles it was normal in the timing department, I blew a head gasket when I put 40 deg total with a graphed dissy, and that only had about 10:1 because of the open chamber 12 port. So I can now assume that cylinder filling efficiency was much better and couldn't deal with the timing? So is this now a guessing game on compression ratio? Will a dynamic ratio with a Holley and a 9 port be more than 9:1 because of its poorer cylinder filling characteristics? Is 9:1 dynamic too much when dealing with an individual throttle scenario? Put it this way... If I put this comp cam in and set it for 12.2:1 put my 9 port and Holley on it and use 31 total timing, then next season, put my other head and tripples on it and blow the head gasket apart straight away with the same comp?

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#110 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 07:23 PM

Step 1: Increase compression ratio untill it detonates uncontrollably.

Step 2: Get better fuel.

Step 3: See step 1

:tease:

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#111 N/A-PWR

CABIN ENGINE CONTROLS GALORE

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9,636 posts

Name:Dave I
Location:Wooroloo, 65km's East of Perth
Car:'1969' LC RAT TORANA
Joined: 08-December 12

Posted 04 May 2013 - 07:46 PM

Step 0 : stop just before Detonation

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#112 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:01 PM

the 9:1 dynamic that OJ suggests on his site, I need 12.2:1 static for the comp cam I have here in its box still. I need about 13.5:1 for the wade 949a that I was using with the massive timing (40deg locked with 11.2:1 static) so up till now, all makes sense...

The numbers on my site are very conservative, I probably should update that section. Come to think of it, the whole thing could do with a thorough update/rewrite, there's a lot of sections that contain dated info. Hard to justify for a nearly 50 year old engine that not many use though.

What you said about the Holley and the IR manifold behaving differently is normal and to be expected. IR will normally like more cam and less spark, not so much because of the better fill so much as the big reduction in charge contamination. I'd have no hesitation in running more comp with the 12 port IR, but don't be surprised if it only wants 30^o or even less. In other words use the same CR for either manifold but tune to suit and start with a conservative total advance with the 12 port.

I hear you blokes went very well at Echuca; congratulations.

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#113 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

I'd have no hesitation in running more comp with the 12 port IR, but don't be surprised if it only wants 30^o or even less.

I'll back that up, mine only needs about 26-28 total.

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#114 _Bluejinx202_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

I hear you blokes went very well at Echuca; congratulations.

Yeah we did thanks. We won by 3-4sec, 3 out of the 4 class races we entered with 8 competing. came 2nd in the 4th race by 0.8 sec out of 1.00m race Then 7th overall in an open class with 23 in (18 of which were 350's) so upset a few v8 boys which is very satisfying.

Can I get a confirmation that my comp looks ok for a place to start?

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#115 _Bluejinx202_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

I was going to go pro the final and put it on one of my threads here but it fell in the water idling up to the flag. Couple of hours in the sun and the camera is ok but didn't get the footage. I could put up one of the skiing heats maybe

I was going to go pro the final and put it on one of my threads here but it fell in the water idling up to the flag. Couple of hours in the sun and the camera is ok but didn't get the footage. I could put up one of the skiing heats maybe

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#116 _Bluejinx202_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

For anyone who is interested... This isn't my video, but someone from our club did it and it shows what we do. We are the second boat in the clip when the racing is shown called jester. White sides with blue bottom. Sorry it's not torana related but as I said, whoever is interested in Holden motors doing non car jobs.

Edited by Bluejinx202, 05 May 2013 - 01:12 PM.

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#117 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:25 PM

...Then 7th overall in an open class with 23 in (18 of which were 350's) so upset a few v8 boys which is very satisfying.

Expect a marriage proposal from Bomber shortly. Might even be worth considering; apparently he has a shedful of Holden six spares...

That was a really well done video, looks like great fun. I'll take a look at the CR numbers later, is the 5.6" rod length correct?

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#118 _Bluejinx202_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:30 PM

No, I'm in the shed now, not the lounge room so it's actually 5.3"

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#119 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:32 PM

Expect a marriage proposal from Bomber shortly. Might even be worth considering; apparently he has a shedful of Holden six spares...

Old news, i proposed when he first joined the forum and said what he had....

*cough5.25"cough??*

Cheers.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 05 May 2013 - 01:32 PM.

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#120 _stretchlc_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:58 PM

Subtle Bomber.......Subtle hahaha

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#121 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 06:01 PM

Assuming that A) you're gonna advance the cam a couple of degrees (which I think you should) the engines run pretty cool, which I guess they would and C) you're gonna spend whatever time it takes on tuning, I'd be inclined to try to get it up to around 12.4 - 12.6

Edited by oldjohnno, 05 May 2013 - 06:16 PM.

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#122 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 06:06 PM

Glad you got it sorted ,Awsome video ,love timber ski boats especially with holden 6 power . A few years ago I got to drive a 1960's timber Lewis with 179 power on Smiths Lake near Forster nsw , the owners wiped my drool off the boat and let me drive if i lent them a ski because they wanted to see one of their mates ski behind it ,their mate happened to be Fred Williams , in his seventies,no life jacket ,he jumped waves like the best ,I'll never forget it.

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#123 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 06:22 PM

Assuming that A) you're gonna advance the cam a couple of degrees (which I think you should) the engines run pretty cool, which I guess they would and C) you're gonna spend whatever time it takes on tuning, I'd be inclined to try to get it up to around 12.4 - 12.6

In case that doesn't make any sense, that's supposed to be a "B", not a smiley face...

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#124 _Bluejinx202_

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:34 PM

Ok, so it's been six months. The comp cam is in, it's is +4, 110lsa 250/255@50, 350-360 odd lobe lift, I've taken 0.040 off the head and I'm at 12.5:1 compression, I've set the dissy at 12 deg static.... It still runs like shit till it gets shitloads of timing!

I was out with a bloke today as he has just run in he's engine, it's a copy of mine as an engine builder mate (who did my head porting) used the same recipe as mine to put it together. Same carb, same head (the chambers were cut the same day as mine in the rvr) same cam, lower comp (10.5:1) I set the timing up for him yesterday at static 13, when I went out with him today I cranked up the advance minutely just to see if it would pull harder off the line and it clearly started to ping. I backed it off and she's running smooth as again. I might see if I can borrow he's distributer and coil....

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#125 _Ned Loh_

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:38 AM

hi james,

how much timing did the 10.5 motor take total? will be real interesting to hear what the result is of you swapping the dizzy, and how much total your 12.5 motor takes.

Cheers