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Help! 308 running hot

Started by _76S.L.R_ , Jan 02 2013 05:32 PM

New alloy radiator

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226 replies to this topic

#101 _The Baron_

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

within a few mins the temp has risen to 100 and the fans not kicked on!?,its get to 105 on the temp gauge and the fans start up they whirl like mad and its struggling to bring the temp down at all??. I get home and the fans still going, it takes a good 5-6 mins now to get the temp to 90 . I turn the motor off and come back outside and turn the key to acc the temp is now back up to 95

Whilst not likely to be the root cause of your problem, what thermal fan switch are you using? ( what are your on/off temp values?) Mind you, once they run they should be dragging the temp down faster than that (5-6min) I would think. My setup when siting on a stinking hot day (38 plus) will cycle on at 3/4 gauge and off at half gauge with an on time of around 30-90 seconds and then generally off for say 4-8 minutes .

My temperature switch (off the top of my head) starts the fans @ 102 deg C and goes off at @ 94 deg C. Normal (around 60Km) and fast (highway) driving where the fans are not needed, I sit just under 1/2 guage with the 82 Deg C thermostat.

Do you have a trans cooler infront of the radiator or in it (assuming auto). A high stall may heat things up quicker when thrashed. Also a lot more to cool down through a setup with an in the radiator trans cooler. Maybe clutching a straws but this is a think tank!

Any photos of you setup?

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#102 _76S.L.R_

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:42 PM

I'll have to check the rating on the Thermo Fan Switch tomorrow but it usually kicks them on at 95 c .

I have Turbo 350 Box, Normal Standard Converter,I have just had braided Transmission Lines made up and plumbed them into the fittings on the Lower tank on the Radiator. I previously had a Big Trans cooler infront of the Radiator with the old radiator I had on but I Took that Tranny cooler off cause I thought it was Hampering Airflow to the radiator causing the Overheating but this is doing the same thing!

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#103 GML-31

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

have you checked your hoses, does bottom one have spring in it ... sometimes the bottom hose can suck flat otherwise

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#104 _76S.L.R_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

have you checked your hoses, does bottom one have spring in it ... sometimes the bottom hose can suck flat otherwise

I just fitted a brand new lower hose yesterday and it has the spring in it so at the moment I'm still baffled as to what the problem is.

The car use to run fine and when the fans kicked on previously the temp use to really rocket downwards like no tomorrow?,I just cant recall exactly when it started running hot cause its really not driven much at all and ive not really made any mods for many, many years apart from Cosmetic mods.

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#105 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

I have a infra red temp gun you can borrow to help diagnose the problem.

The first thing to check would be that the fans are wired correctly (sucking, high speed) and the radiator temp at the bottom hose drops when they are on. Once you have confirmed that the radiator is providing cool water then you can look at water flow issues.

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#106 _76S.L.R_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

I might have to borrow that mate!! cause now im even more puzzled!!!!!!

I drained the Coolant yet again!( sighhhh) I then tested like S Pac Suggested and popped some wire through the Thermostat Opening on the Manifold to see if the Intake to Head Gaskets are indeed on the wrong way ,but no = 100% these ports are open and the gaskets are on the correct way around. So the problem still lies somewhere else!?????

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#107 _76S.L.R_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:20 PM

I just got back fron Veale Auto Parts and was talking to the guys there, they said they have a customer they call " GTR Steve" over here in W.A who has a GTR with a V8 and was having the same issues for ages and in the end it was a Cracked head!!.

Also with my thermo fans, they are mounted on the back of the radiator and are currently pushing air to the front of the car, I thought this might be the cause of the overheating ie pushing the air instead of pulling it but ive done some googling and suposedly it makes hardly any difference at all??....

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#108 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

The fans must move air through the radiator in the same direction as the natural airflow when the car is moving forwards. Typically this would require a pusher fan in front of the radiator or a puller fan behind the radiator. A fan behind the radiator is slightly more efficient than a fan in front of the radiator because the fan body is not blocking the natural airflow.

In most cases an electric motor or fan blade running in the opposite direction to the direction is was designed for will be less efficient that it would running in the designed direction. Some motors and fans are not directional but most are.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 05 January 2013 - 02:31 PM.

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#109 hanra

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:32 PM

Also with my thermo fans, they are mounted on the back of the radiator and are currently pushing air to the front of the car, I thought this might be the cause of the overheating ie pushing the air instead of pulling it but ive done some googling and suposedly it makes hardly any difference at all??....

So.......... are you saying your fans are mounted on the engine side of the radiator and are pushing air forwards towards the front of the car???????

Where is your thermatic switch located?

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#110 _torbirdie_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:57 PM

You have au fans?, they are only suitable as pullers, should be pulling if wired correctly. Would explain a lot about why they are not doing much.

But it would also appear that they have always been wired back to front and you only needed them to function when the car was going very slowly or stationary previously.

Still doesn't explain why the motor is still getting too hot in the 1 st place on cruise, but heh, reverse the wires, and see, fans blowing the right way may make it driveable.

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#111 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

Still doesn't explain why the motor is still getting too hot in the 1 st place on cruise, but heh, reverse the wires, and see, fans blowing the right way may make it driveable.

There would be a speed where the airflow from the car travelling forward would be cancelled by the airflow of the fans blowing which in theory could cause the car to run hot when cruising if the fans cut in.

Edited by ls2lxhatch, 05 January 2013 - 03:10 PM.

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#112 Ice

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

I thought au fans had to go between grill and radiator for best results all the ones i have seen are there

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#113 S pack

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:17 PM

You have au fans?, they are only suitable as pullers, should be pulling if wired correctly. Would explain a lot about why they are not doing much.

But it would also appear that they have always been wired back to front and you only needed them to function when the car was going very slowly or stationary previously.

Still doesn't explain why the motor is still getting too hot in the 1 st place on cruise, but heh, reverse the wires, and see, fans blowing the right way may make it driveable.

Definitely not going to help though having the fans blow hot air from the engine bay back through the radiator.

76 S.L.R. Good to hear the gaskets are installed correctly - one more potential problem crossed off.

Edited by S pack, 05 January 2013 - 03:18 PM.

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#114 _torbirdie_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

There would be a speed where the airflow from the car travelling forward would be cancelled by the airflow of the fans blowing which in theory could cause the car to run hot when cruising if the fans cut in.

Sure, but doesn't explain why things got hot enough to trigger the fans on cruise, once triggered at speed they'd make it run even hotter.

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#115 _torbirdie_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

I thought au fans had to go between grill and radiator for best results all the ones i have seen are there

Have a look at an au ford, they are between engine and rad. There maybe indeed some people that have mounted them the other way, but it ain't good use of these fans. I've never tested them to see if they'll operate in reverse, but guessing they do! The blades are designed for optimum flow in one direct only, and are physically impossible to remove and fit backwards on the au fan motors. Also the motors aren't designed to be hit with large volumes of water, which they'd be exposed to on the front

Edited by torbirdie, 05 January 2013 - 03:32 PM.

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#116 _torbirdie_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

Definitely not going to help though having the fans blow hot air from the engine bay back through the radiator.

76 S.L.R. Good to hear the gaskets are installed correctly - one more potential problem crossed off.

When stationary, don't believe it would make much difference. Swings and roundabouts, the engine surfaces are getting hit by hot air from the radiator when the flow is conventional so there will be less cooling of the engine and exhaust manifolds by conduction of heat from its surfaces than when the flow is reversed. In reality very little heat is removed form the engine via direct air contact anyway, though not the same can be claimed for the exhaust manifolds.

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#117 _76S.L.R_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:01 PM

Well they must have allways ran in the direction they are now?, I had an Auto Elect wire them all up years ago,it wasnt me that wired it all up. Though it did use to run cool!??

Is it possible they could run the opposit way from me taking connections off of relays etc and putting them back on the wrong terminals?? I have to firgure out how to reverse the fan direction( im pretty hopeless with electrics!)

Hanra= The Thermic switch is in the top corner of the to radiator tank,the switch has stamped on it 85 80 yet my fans kick on at 95 and sometimes 105!?....... WTF?

Edited by 76S.L.R, 05 January 2013 - 04:07 PM.

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#118 _torbirdie_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:14 PM

Well they must have allways ran in the direction they are now?, I had an Auto Elect wire them all up years ago,it wasnt me that wired it all up. Though it did use to run cool!??

Is it possible they could run the opposit way from me taking connections off of relays etc and putting them back on the wrong terminals?? I have to firgure out how to reverse the fan direction( im pretty hopeless with electrics!)

Its possible, Im assuming that both your fans come on together and there is no sophistication in using the two speed facility on the au fans or coming on separately.
The fans should each be powered by separate relays, so hard to believe you managed to get the connections wrong on both relays, or perhaps your autoelec only used one. Go to the fans and trace back the wires that go from each motor, and see where they connect and reverse the connections(fingers crossed there is nothing there that is sophisticated that will smoke things, or perhaps get the auto elec to do it in case he has booby trapped it!)

Edited by torbirdie, 05 January 2013 - 04:16 PM.

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#119 _76S.L.R_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

Theres 1 relay for each fan, stupidly I have no fan controller,just the Thermic Switch in the top Radiator tank,so the fans are either both off or both on at full speed( but spinning in the wrong direction!).

'll have a look at the relays and wires but I dont know which actual wires on the relay to swap around??

Edited by 76S.L.R, 05 January 2013 - 04:34 PM.

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#120 _torbirdie_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

'll have a look at the relays and wires but I dont know which actual wires on the relay to swap around??

Go to the fans and trace back the wires that go from each motor, and see where they connect and reverse the connections(fingers crossed there is nothing there that is sophisticated that will smoke things, or perhaps get the auto elec to do it in case he has booby trapped it!)

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#121 ls2lxhatch

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

It should not be possible to get the wires wrong at the relay. The relay would normally only switch the positive (typically a red or brown wire.) The wires may have got switched around further down stream from the relay.

The black earth wire should be running to the chassis.

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#122 _76S.L.R_

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

Ive just had another look, theres a red wire coming out of one relay and a black one out the other relay, these trace up and are spliced together into a spade bit,the other end of the spade bit gous to a single red wire that then goes to a missile type kill switch for the fans.I recall we put this in so that when I go to start the car and its still hot,the fans dont kick on at the same time( it use to do that) and cause staring probs.

Theres 2 Red Wires from the fans to the relays( one into each relay) I'll try get some pics up...

Edited by 76S.L.R, 05 January 2013 - 06:08 PM.

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#123 _torbirdie_

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:32 AM

.I recall we put this in so that when I go to start the car and its still hot,the fans dont kick on at the same time( it use to do that) and cause staring probs.

sounds like the autoelec used the igntion for the relay trigger. An easier solution than another switch is to use an accessories terminal for the trigger, it gets switched out when you crank the starter.

Of course this means the fans can become active when you have the ignition in the accessories position, best solution is to combine accessories trigger feed in series with a tachiometric relay so fans will only trigger when the engine is running.