Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

SLEEVES IN BORES FOR ADDED BLOCK STRENGTH?

Started by _stretchlc_ , Apr 25 2013 01:39 PM

Please log in to reply

16 replies to this topic

#1 _stretchlc_

Guests

Posted 25 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

Well, I've been brainstorming again trying to plan my next engine build with high boost. I have been researching Darton Cylinder Sleeves and I am considering sleeving all 6 bores on my chosen engine block. The bores on this block are .030" over and are in really good condition (no huge score marks, arent football shaped -mic'd up perfectly).......BUT........for a little added strength to the cylinders walls and maybe even the block itself indirectly, I have been thinking about having new sleeves installed.

I'm planning on running ALOT of boost into this future engine and I was just wanting to know what the thoughts are about sleeves from any of the engine guru guys here. The engine doesnt need the sleeves as such, but I need the block strength to be up there with the silly amount of cylinder pressures I plan on making this engine accept. I will also be using this engine on the street at every chance, as well as the track, so things like grout filling the block are'nt really an option for me.

The reason I got to thinking about sleeves, is Klunker engine when I built it, had a sleeve installed in number 4 cylinder and at the time it got me thinking about preparing a block so that sleeves can be installed in ALL 6 cylinders as opposed to a factory bore. I'm really interested to hear any advice and comments about going down this route and if its not deemed as a viable excercise, I'll not bother.

Thanks all

Back to top

#2 greens nice

Forum Fixture

Members
1,011 posts

Name:Kevin
Location:QLD
Car:EH Holden
Joined: 01-November 08

Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:18 PM

you could use a blue 173 block, with minimal overbore bores would have at least .200 wall thickness.

don't be scared to grout the block, it won't run hotter coolant temp's, but the engine oil will hold more heat so a good oil cooler and a guage would be insurance

Back to top

#3 _coupe202_

Guests

Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

how boost do you want to run

Back to top

#4 _bathurst-racer_

Guests

Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:36 PM

I used to work for a team which won a lot of races. Our engine machinist used to sleeve every bore but not for block strength but to have a better quality material for the rings to work on. As mentioned above grouting the block is a much better solution assuming you can keep temperatures in range for the use you intend.

Back to top

#5 _outer control_

Guests

Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

You could use stepped sleeves and grouting would help strength and absorb vibes

Back to top

#6 warrenm

Forum Fixture

Members
2,118 posts

Location:Central West NSW
Car:1972 LJ Torana
Joined: 08-November 05

View Garage

Posted 26 April 2013 - 07:52 AM

I know of an engine builder that has done exactly what you are asking about as well as grouting the block in a 202, it will be a turbo engine, but hasn't been fired up yet.

Back to top

#7 _runna_202_

Guests

Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:21 PM

grouts good stuff. As greens nice said it wont affect your cooling bugger all, buts its worth doing some reserch on exactly how much to use as every application is different. Ive used it on every one of my turbo engines without any drama. Id say your on the right track with the darton sleeves,ive also looked into it and would be an expensive exercise although worth the results. Also running big boost you'll struggle to keep the head on the thing so id go with 1/2 in clevo studs torqed @ 95ft pound which gives you a bit more clamping force but more importantly gives you lower chance of stud yield because your not using the 110 ft pound that arp recomend,if you do you will pull the thread clean out. Also keeping the head on,copper head gasket o rings on the block and on the head get a reciever groove directly above the o ring to lock the gasket between both surfaces,this works a treat. If your block is as ridgd as you can get,ie;darton sleeves that will help with keeping the head intact also.

Having all the good gear is only part of the story,the tune up it just as important. Big boost on the street you want good fuel,id op for e85 if you can that stuff is blood awesome for boosted engines. Then theres ignition timing,the right heat range plugs,correct dizzy curve etc.One last thing,if your running a carb blow through or draw through,you must tune your engine to the worst clinder. hope that helps mate good luck. peter.

Back to top

#8 Stinga

.

Members
2,114 posts

Name:Stinga
Location:Wollongong, NSW
Car:HD Holden ute, and sedan, UC torana
Joined: 05-December 05

Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:35 PM

you could use a blue 173 block, with minimal overbore bores would have at least .200 wall thickness.

don't be scared to grout the block, it won't run hotter coolant temp's, but the engine oil will hold more heat so a good oil cooler and a guage would be insurance

slightly related, but could you completely grout fill the block on a strip only engine with no cooling system being used?

Back to top

#9 _runna_202_

Guests

Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:23 PM

slightly related, but could you completely grout fill the block on a strip only engine with no cooling system being used?

yes. buts its a thing thats towed to the line raced and then towed to the pits and usually run on methanol. Ive seen blokes run fully grouted blocks and just have coolant pass through the heads.cheers peter

Back to top

#10 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:58 PM

Would there be much benefit going higher than about half way up the welsh plug holes?

Back to top

#11 greens nice

Forum Fixture

Members
1,011 posts

Name:Kevin
Location:QLD
Car:EH Holden
Joined: 01-November 08

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:07 PM

seeing as though grout only give's compressive strength, i had another wacky idea that if you filled the block to the bottom of the welch plug's, you could bolt a head on with a head gasket of a different origin ( ie blue h/g on a red block, not 1 water passage lines up) spin it upside down and fill the top maybe, 1 inch of the block.

it wouldn't make the deck any stronger but would put strength in the bore where it count's.

you could still circulate some water through the block too.

and just run a drill bit through the grout to open the water galleries back up.

cheers

Back to top

#12 Stinga

.

Members
2,114 posts

Name:Stinga
Location:Wollongong, NSW
Car:HD Holden ute, and sedan, UC torana
Joined: 05-December 05

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:13 PM

Would there be much benefit going higher than about half way up the welsh plug holes?

isnt the strength needed more towards the top of the cylinder?

Back to top

#13 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:29 PM

frOcks me, probably

Back to top

#14 N/A-PWR

CABIN ENGINE CONTROLS GALORE

Members
9,639 posts

Name:Dave I
Location:Wooroloo, 65km's East of Perth
Car:'1969' LC RAT TORANA
Joined: 08-December 12

Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:55 AM

Here is a Read:-

http://www.gmh-toran...-filled-blocks/

Edited by TORYPOWER, 29 April 2013 - 12:56 AM.

Back to top

#15 _oldjohnno_

Guests

Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:29 AM

Well, I've been brainstorming again trying to plan my next engine build with high boost. I have been researching Darton Cylinder Sleeves and I am considering sleeving all 6 bores

Have you tried contacting Paul Cole, the ProFC guy? Not saying you won't get some good info here but he's actually done the high-boost turbo 202 thing very successfully and would be my first choice as a source of information.

Back to top

#16 _runna_202_

Guests

Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:56 PM

Have you tried contacting Paul Cole, the ProFC guy? Not saying you won't get some good info here but he's actually done the high-boost turbo 202 thing very successfully and would be my first choice as a source of information.

thats very stout that thing old johnno,i remember reading about it in the street machine a while ago. He also raced na 202s and revved them to 8k plus that ran 12s.....holy fu#k! But i do also remember him saying he need to darton sleeves to stiffen the block,and on the turbo engine he didnt run a cooling system because he didnt want the welsh plugs to pop out and put water on the track then on to the tyres then put the old girl into the wall. Alky injected with no cooling system wouldnt make for the best street car though,imagine goin down to the local donalds drive-through to get a mcflurry?

Back to top

#17 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:36 PM

I had as much of a chat to Paul at the six banger nats as he would put up with, didnt wanna give to much away, basically darton sleves lots of grout lots of boost no revs everything that has been mentioned elsewhere.

What he wouldnt say was more interesting to me, like why didnt he go mfi etc....lots of long pauses and awkward looks. Nice enough guy though.