2118 replies to this topic

[Heath]

I think lots of people use Repliglass flares, but I have no experience. As I said, mine are Alfa flares.

 

If the car is getting painted anyway, welding up the old flare holes isn't a big deal. But I would say that if you're paying someone to do the bodywork, you certainly wouldn't use fibreglass panels to save money. I don't want to imagine the cost of paying people to adjust panels like I had to. It was a love job with the explicit purpose of reducing the car's weight - not a cost-saving exercise.

 

And the car's bodywork would be better if the panels were steel. The fibreglass moves around at different temperatures and the ripples in the flat sections of bodywork change, etc.

Edited by Heath, 22 November 2022 - 10:28 AM.

[Liam S]

I think lots of people use Repliglass flares, but I have no experience. As I said, mine are Alfa flares.

If the car is getting painted anyway, welding up the old flare holes isn't a big deal. But I would say that if you're paying someone to do the bodywork, you certainly wouldn't use fibreglass panels to save money. I don't want to imagine the cost of paying people to adjust panels like I had to. It was a love job with the explicit purpose of reducing the car's weight - not a cost-saving exercise.

And the car's bodywork would be better if the panels were steel. The fibreglass moves around at different temperatures and the ripples in the flat sections of bodywork change, etc.

Yep that was my thinking too. Cheers mate appreciate all feedback and advice.

 

G'day Liam,

Remember to factor-in that the bolt holes will almost certainly be in different places if you buy replacement flares.

I'm not sure where you're up to in terms of bodywork but if the current flares are already fitted that may mean welding-up some holes and drilling others?

Hey mate it’s in queue to get to Dirtbag for panel work. The holes in it currently are way too big for the flare bolts it should be using (12mm holes!) so welding up and redoing is a no biggie on my side.


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[Heath]

I decided I wasn't totally happy with the rear tow hook design.



Now it's a bit thicker, lighter, and slightly tighter against the beaver panel.
 
Also that stupid hydraulic handbrake master was leaking... brand new part obviously. Plus the lever force required to lock the rear tyres up was impractically high, and the master bracket I made for the car all those years ago was flexing about a bit (the tunnel isn't really strong enough to support it adequately from one side only; poor design on my part, https://www.gmh-tora...-31#entry974322)
 
I bought a 0.625" bore master to replace the faulty 0.7" one that came with the hydro. The new one has two seals in series along the piston, where the old one only had one. Without studying it too hard, I hope that'll help, haha!
 
Anyway, it was time for a re-work of the assembly.
 
I made a longer linkage section out of some stainless materials I had lying around, this suits the more "forward" position I've adjusted the handle into now.

I drilled out the aluminium base of the handbrake lever and made a brass bush on the lathe to go in there.

 
Also made a longer stainless tube handle... tacked it together and then stuck it in the lathe to get it really nice and "flush" before welding it properly.

 
I took a template of the area that the master bolts up to, and started cutting some stainless sheet out to sandwitch into that assembly.

Welded a bit of stainless flat bar onto it:

Trimmed the fat:

 
Hell yes.


So that bracket holds things nice and firmly so it's supported on both sides, and because it's a bolt-in part, when it's removed, you can still get the carpet out of the car.

Also entered the car into the Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge for next weekend which will be the car's first competitive event (I am shitting myself, really don't know how to drive it yet)
And fitted (stretched dramatically using pyrotechnic methods) some new rear tyres onto it. Pleased to report there was not much left of those old Pirellis.

[SHEEL]

Those little changes look awesome, nice to see some bits being refined so well...

 

can't wait to see pics from a driving event!

[LXCHEV]

Looks great. Hope you have a blast at the driving events - and remember if you're not breaking stuff then you're not trying hard enough

[Heath]

Yeah... I mean it's what the car was built for. But that doesn't mean I'm anything but nervous!

The next area is the warranty replacement starter (another Aeroflow one) has been having a problem where it doesn't engage consistently, and often makes a pretty nasty grinding sound before or (even during) it engages and cranks. The clearance is as good as it can be (given the runout that can't be adjusted out) and it sounds okay while cranking.
 
I figured maybe the problem was on the side of my car instead of just blaming the starter motor itself (although the other starters did not have this problem)
I pulled out a spare ignition switch (I think every other switch in the car was pretty much replaced or reconditioned when I put the car together... just not the ignition switch)


A bit of an ugly build-up in there, but nothing to be worried about.

Cleaned everything, then wire brushed & scotch-brite'd all the conductive surfaces with contact cleaner, coated the terminals in De-Oxit and assembled with a bit of Dielectric grease.


 
Put it back together and swapped it over with the one in the car... and the problem is un-changed. It obviously wasn't the cause of the problem.
 
My clearance problem has not changed, so I don't think I can fit a CAE or CVR gear reduction starter.
I called CAE about building me a Hitachi-style starter to suit a Holden V8 and they said it would be over $1,000 because they don't have a design for the adaptor block (half tempted to make one myself), but then I found this cheap one on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com...tm/155065858479
 
My thinking is... buy one of those; hopefully it fits and works, and if it fails in a short timeframe, then maybe I can use that same adaptor block and bolt in a higher quality Hitachi-style starter unit in the future? Such as one from CAE. Here's hoping.

[Bigfella237]

Ah... but it only suits "Commodore VL 4.9 V8 HDT SS Group A 304 (Black) Sedan"

 

What a load of crap!

 

But I'm wondering why they specify "Automatic applications" only?

[Heath]

Haha, yeah. I don't really care about the specifics of the incomplete listing; I just care that they claim it bolts onto a Holden V8. If it doesn't, then I've got something to stand on!
 
In other news, I finally weighed the car. It's actually 1,301kg.
 
That's with about 1/4 tank of fuel. No huge surprise to say that I was expecting it would be less... I was hoping for it to be like 60kg lower.
 
But I know that I've pulled at least 115kg out with my weight saving efforts, so that final figure is instructive about how much weight we add into these cars if we don't think about weight reduction. These are things chassis bracing, different induction systems, big balancers, heavy duty diffs, tailshafts, and gearboxes, big brakes, big fuel tanks, bodykits, large diameter exhaust systems, wheels and tyres, etc. and even down to my fire extinguisher, tow points, simple stereo, hydraulic handbrake, and so on.

I haven't deleted many things from the car, certainly less than I've added. I've just tried to be weight-conscious with everything. I've got a spread-sheet that lists everything I've weighed, but it does have some holes and I don't REALLY know what these cars actually weigh standard, with fluids. (for reference, the commonly shared ~1,200kg standard weight seems impossible to repeat if you're using good accuracy weighing equipment)
 
- cameron posted a few years back in this thread about a bone stock 4.2L SS hatch being weighed at 1,340kg (no stereo, 13" wheels, not much fuel)
- Someone else on the forum posted about a factory A9X sedan having a weight of 1,360kg with a quarter of a tank of fuel.
- axistr's sedan with air con, power steering, and a 6spd in it, is 1,440kg with half a tank in it.
 
I've been to weigh bridges and seen smaller figures, but I don't trust them.
 
I actually corner weighted mine and found it's not exactly distributed all that nicely. It's 54% front, 46% rear, which is fine. But there's a diagonal weight bias that's fairly undesirable... Right Front and Rear Left are more heavily loaded than the others by about 40kg unladen. It gets a little bit better with me in it, but certainly not ideal. Need to sleep on that one as there are no great solutions to the problem. The way the flares are a bit asymmetrical and the fitment is pretty tight means it's a bit tricky to start spacing the springs too radically away from where they are.

[Bigfella237]

~ I've got a spread-sheet that lists everything I've weighed, but it does have some holes ~

PMSL...

[Heath]

It lists a total of 1,347 speed holes.

 

But unfortunately, there are also some gaps in the data.

[claysummers]

I can’t remember where you put your battery but maybe you could swap sides to improve things?


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[76lxhatch]

Fingers crossed on the starter front.

 

Weight sounds pretty good to me, less than 100kg heavier than the factory dry weight. It's really hard to compete with the weight of the original gearbox, diff, wheels and tyres simply because they are so much smaller. Then almost every other modification adds a bit more.

 

My math is probably out but surely 40kg doesn't take much spring spacing to fix? You only need to shift half that (otherwise it will go the other way) and that's between two springs. Even if they are only 200lb/in (90kg/in) springs you only need a few mm spacer on the lighter corners to bring that number down.

[355LX]

Have told you before but happy to say it again, love every aspect of this car Heath well done mate.

 

I just have to know, how much weight did the culmination of just your speed holes save? I'm hoping it is negligible so as to dissuade myself from doing the same thing, haha.

 

I did a rough estimate of an average of 25grams per speed hole x 1347 comes to 33.68kg which is a healthy weight saving. If that were the case I actually would be tempted to go through the process myself.   

[Heath]

Corner weighting the car will make the wheel gaps get a bit more uneven, which is unfortunate, but it may need to be done and you're right that a small spacer should have a big impact on it, but when I tried to emulate that with some shit under the wheels, it didn't work. Anyway, right now that is the bottom of the list, and I wish I didn't know about it.

 

I'm happy with the overall weight thing.

 

The only thing that is a bit lame is that everyone thinks their Torana is 1,180kg plus 20kg extra when they put their upgraded diff in, when the total is nowhere near that figure. But it may make people who are a bit simplistic view these efforts as a waste of time.

 

I can't tell you exactly what the speed holes equate to, my data isn't organised in that way exactly. The parts that I was going to use anyway (OEM parts or aftermarket parts I was going to use, then modified), that I have measured before and after shaping and drilling, equate to about 15kg of reduction. A lot of the holes (sunroof panel frame for example) are just in a part that I made, so there's no "before" weight for that part... So I am talking about OEM parts or aftermarket parts that I bought and would have used anyway, then modified them. I would say there's probably another 5kg that I haven't got good data for (yet, at least; I wasn't 100% thorough with my measuring before and after, and I don't have every standard Torana part on the shelf of course, so this is why there are gaps in the data).

 

But most holes would be waaaaay less than 25 grams. Some are certainly more.

 

Small holesawing in the sheetmetal structure of the car's shell is absolutely not worth it. If I had my time again I would still do all the re-shaping of edges etc. because it makes it way nicer to work on under the dash etc, but I realise that those holes in the thin stuff are like... frOck all. I think it was about 2.5kg I weighed that I cut off the shelf, but half of that was bracketry that was unnecessary, and that was thicker. So that is totally not substantial. I would still cut the bracketry off, obviously.

 

Doing the parts that bolt onto the shell... no regrets there.

 

Cutting bolts to the right length, no regrets there either. Particularly on the bigger diameter fasteners.

[myss427]

Still a good weight  for so many luxury items! Mines a little under 1350 with alloy big block, alloy diff centre fibre-glass bumpers and lightweight Recaro seats, gearbox is a pig though. Made sure when building it did not put any unnecessary extra heavy stuff in it. Soon mines going to be a little heavier, going For one of Axistr's power steering conversions, sick of the big front wheel heave slow steer.

[Heath]

Yeah, I think it's pretty good.

 

Alloy block would be nice. That's a pretty awesome figure on yours, I thought yours would be heavier, but I forgot about the block.

 

Coming up to the street car challenge, I discovered that I really under-cooked the material selection on the brace between the rear towers.

Only 1.6mm wall section, and a diameter that wasn't really up to the task of mounting a harness on it.

 

I sourced some 42.2mm O.D., 2.77mm wall section 316 stainless "pipe" that was a bit more substantial. I stuck it in a friend's (bigger) lathe and manually spent a few hours linishing it down to a nice brushed finish to match the other stainless materials in the car.

 

Made some discs to make the bolted connections at the rear towers, and rough cut some short mitred sections to make the end pieces. Also ground the inside of these with a carbide burr and then that sanding (radial flap wheel thing) to once again get the surface finish I wanted.

 

Made a jig of the old one by welding some brackets onto the benchtop, then notched the new pipe to fit onto the new welded end pieces. Takes me aaaaages to do this stuff, haha.

 

Drilled and tapped some 316 bar stock, so that I could screw the high grade harness eyebolts into the bar.

 

Gluing the bits together.

 

Re-tapped the threads, scotch brite all the discolouration off, and vuola.

 

Drove home with it on last night. Feels pretty good actually. I wasn't sure that it would be like without a racing seat with proper loops, but seems good even just with the Recaro.

 

And now the car has over 1,300km on the clock. Not sure how many times I've said this now, but it is awesome.

[76lxhatch]

Nice work. Looking forward to a report on what the handling is like with your rear suspension setup.

[355LX]

Cheers for that Heath, good explanation and a relief to hear. I am very comfortable cutting excess material out of fabricated and bolt on parts - the shell less so though. 

 

I sold my brand new Magnum 6 speed and Quicktime bellhousing to change over to the new TKX and lighter Lakewood bellhousing based purely on the weight saving. I am saving 20kg just from that change alone and the bonus was I bought my magnum when the AUD was stronger against the USD and came out about $1200 ahead after the change over. Don't get those sorts of wins often! I would probably say moving the LSA on was a large part due to weight saving as well, not having the weight of the additional water pump, heat exchanger and supercharger itself.

 

Love the latest touches, look so good!

[SHEEL]

Eagerly awaiting action shots!!!

[Heath]

Great to hear I'm not the only one interested in weight on these things!

 

I'm still working on getting some action shots, sorry. Optima employed a professional film guy and a photographer, and I put a friend's GoPro on my car for a few runs also. I'm of course hoping to get my hands on some stuff, but nothing really good enough to share, yet.

 

The seppos who came over and ran this two-day event at Calder Park Raceway were bloody legends. Just lovely people and a really well run event. 

Only complaints were it was blooooody hot (a bit too hot for comfort on a track day with a car you're nervous about overheating things on), and there were nowhere near enough entrants.

 

Event summary:

1) First up was an autocross kind of event. Twisty, short bit of the track with some chicanes and cones added (the cones had to be 360'd around) and into a garage, that was excellent.

2) They also had a "stop-start" I think they called it, which was like a ~100m straight sprint, into a 180 degree corner, through an "either-way" slalom set of cones, into a garage. That was excellent as well.

3) They had a little show & shine type event where you demonstrate your car to the officials and it gets judged on presentation/engineering etc.

4) They had a 1/4 Mile drag race, which was run with a normal Christmas tree, R.T.'s not included.

5) On the Sunday, it was full circuit, with one chicane added on one of the back straights. Configuration was a warm-up lap, two hot laps, and a cool-down lap. Only two cars on the track at once. Very low stress sprint conditions.

 

I had some 225 Hankook RS4's on the front of my car, which are good, and some lousy old 275 Nexens on the rear. So the cornering loads etc. were pretty low and I wasn't setting any lap records. I was treating it as a bit of a shake-down and getting to know the car (going to R-spec tyres at this stage is certainly not the right move).

 

The harness worked really well, I'm very happy I got that done before the event even with the street tyres. The Recaros look sick but really don't have all that much support. The harness made them totally fine.

 

In the autocross and stop-start events (they run these in series, so you do one, and then the other, then back to the first again when you're ready) the car was all over the place. I was just oversteering everywhere and getting a feel for the car. It was super fun. Using the hydro to initiate 360's around the two cones on the course is awesome, and the car just blazes the tyres as much as you want.

 

The show and shine was cool, I mostly had a yarn to one of the yank officials about the car and he seemed really interested. Some of the guys running the event said that my car was the perfect Aussie example of a 'Pro Tourer' and their favourite car at the event, so that was really nice. 

 

I did about 6 or 7 runs down the quarter mile with a best time of 11.91 seconds, sorry, the winning slip didn't mention the MPH so I do not know that. Shifting into 3rd in a TKO is famously un-intuitive, and something you need to get used to (I have not gotten used to it yet) and I was missing shifts on most of the runs. I don't take drag racing too seriously and should probably concentrate a bit more next time. But anyway, the car is awesomely fast when it gets grip and if I drive it better, it obviously has potential for better times.

Grant in the orange car was struggling for traction and was in the 12's, but I know that car runs like mid 11's when he's running with drag rubber, so one would expect that my car would go a fair bit faster with appropriate tyres, also.

 

On the Sunday, we did the full circuit. Honestly, I was pretty uncomfortable with the car. Of course I've never raced the track at Calder before (who has? I don't know if they've run a club sprint type event there in my lifetime). The circuit is quite uneven. Some areas are really slippery. I don't know what the limits of my brakes are, so I have no confidence with them, and I just don't want to be learning them at those speeds. The back half of the course is fine because it's tighter, but the main straight is something else. You come onto the straight and you just cannot get the power down, so you're oversteering between concrete barriers at high speed, and once you hook up in a car of this weight with 500hp a few seconds go by and you're at 220+km/hr. There are no markers for braking zones... and I was scared my car was going to fall apart, lol.

 

Certainly something that compounded my concerns was the fact that my motor is failing to retain oil. It seems to be filling the top end with oil, to the point where it saturates the catch can ports in the rocker covers, and then the blowby creates a pressure in the crankcase that pumps oil through the lines until it's filling the catch can. Then it's getting on the tyres and the surface of the road and it's all a mess. Plus I was super scared that the sump was going to be starved.

 

In conclusion, that was very fun, but I have some more work to do on this old girl.

[SmacT]

Calder is a hell of a track to run test a new build, how did she go over the Hump? I've done plenty of laps there on Mudderbikes, and that right hander at the end of the straight is terrifying (will my brakes work?). Ha ha.

 

Seems like a small list of issues from such a punishing place. The event seems excellent, good on you for having a crack!

[LXCHEV]

Yeah bloody awesome. You've done well - especially considering the extreme heat on top of everything else you normally have to worry about.

 

11.9 quarter mile is already super impressive too for first time out! That's actually seriously impressive - and a really good sign of a well sorted car and driver. Will be really interesting to see how much further you can reduce that, with better weather, prepped track, drag rubber etc... hats off to you mate.

 

Just out of curiosity - the "professional film guy" - does this mean they produce some kind of event package? Where will that end up - YouTube or elsewhere? I'd love to see some video of the day.

[Liam S]

Awesome mate, you did intend for this car to do the circuit style stuff if I remember correctly, and with your mods etc, did it meet your design brief?

Nice work all around.


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[Bruiser]

That’s a great test and tune day you had there
Congrats on the 11.9, you must be stoked

Did you deliberately request the racing number 253 on your door?

[gtrboyy]

High 11's is wicked considering it's not setup for drag racing.

 

Machinists would open up pushrod & return holes to help a little with oil return but serious guys would also add drainback in back of head or rocker cover to sump.

 

Some blokes would have 2 lines from intake valley & one off timing cover f/pump block off.

 

TK & Struggler posted up a lot those tricks on av8 forum back in the day