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JL 202 engine block cast dates

Started by S pack , Sep 08 2013 11:47 AM

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#1 S pack

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:47 AM

Hi all,

Recently we've been entertained by some spirited debate about dual cast date 7th & 8th month 1973 cast JP blocks (thread seems to have vaporised).

Reflecting back on what Mike 73 has said about the casting marks found inside the crankcases of Holden red 6's it would seem that Holden have been tinkering for years with different compositions of the cast iron alloys used to make our faithful old power plants. If the conclusions reached from Mikes research are correct then not all 202 blocks, whether they be eg: QL, JL or JP, are metalurgically the same.

I suspect these dual cast date JP blocks will also have these casting marks inside the crankcase and wondered if they match up with any of the casting mark combinations found in earlier production QL,JL or JP blocks.

Also I was pondering this question and feel it needs to be asked:

Does anyone have, or know of, or ever seen a dual cast date 7th or 8th month 73 JL or QL 202 block?

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#2 dattoman

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:04 PM

That thread is being cleaned and will return

So please don't get it started again here

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#3 S pack

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:46 PM

That thread is being cleaned and will return

So please don't get it started again here

Well, I didn't get a chance to post my question up in that thread as it suddenly vanished, so I've had no choice but to start a new thread.

Not intending this thread to become a slinging match, however, I can't control what others post.

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#4 dattoman

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:02 PM

You could wait for the thread return

However... I understand

I'll just keep and eye on it and maybe even add it to the end of the other thread later

I can control what others post

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#5 Ice

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:25 PM

oooohhhh big bad datto were all scared NOT

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#6 S pack

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:51 PM

You could wait for the thread return

However... I understand

I'll just keep and eye on it and maybe even add it to the end of the other thread later

I can control what others post

Well, I thought the same had happen to the other thread as what what will happen to education reform, GONESKI.

Edited by S pack, 08 September 2013 - 03:52 PM.

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#7 _Skapinad_

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:34 PM

That thread is being cleaned and will return
So please don't get it started again here

Hey Neil,

How long does this usually take? These threads have a habit of dissapearing forever ? So who had a cry and contacted mods ?

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#8 dattoman

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:48 PM

If a thread gets reported then it needs looking over... as that one had

Since I'm really not interested in sifting thru 6 pages of dribble right now it can wait till after Toranafest

I'd never even looked in the thread till it was reported... I can't read everything so I assume you blokes are playing nice till I'm told otherwise.

As for the other thread your talking about if its political and it got busted... it aint ever coming back

Wrong place for that here

Feel free to PM me if you have any concerns about content

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#9 _1973bathxu1_

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:53 PM

dattoman hi just reading this thread and i also was gonna contact u regarding the thread on the duel cast dates as i have mega dollars invested in these toranas and would want the record right, not some one like people like crabb and norm darwin trying to change the course,or write whats wrong,
as for s pack i see nothing wrong asking the question regarding the 7/8 month duel cast date blocks, what he has put up is correct to see if other engines in that era has a duel cast block eg
JP JL QL NP
as for skapined ive had my run with him, and i think he has the right in asking when and how long it will take for the thread to come back.

my 2 bobs worth
aldo

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#10 dattoman

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:32 PM

Aldo

I'm more than happy for the info to be correct

But the previous thread obviously upset someone enough to report it due to PM's being published in the thread (thats what the report said)

I haven't read the thread yet and since its quite long wasn't going too till after Tfest

Bit of a busy week here

By all means set the record straight if you have the info when the thread re-emerges

Once I've taken the time to read it I'll weed out the offending info and let you boys back at it

Neil

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#11 _LONA-CK_

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 02:58 AM

to answer the question,,, no the jl and ql blocks never had the duel cast dates in that era,

7-8-9-10-11 months of 1973,,, did the np and jp yes some did and some didnt,,,having a car with or without one of these duel cast blocks dont meen you have a re-bodied car like crab recons,,, but in saying that there was a change made to the bodies of the 73 bathurst cars and this change was very miner and was made between the 21-27 of the 8-1973...

cheers gong

Edited by LONA-CK, 09 September 2013 - 03:11 AM.

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#12 _sunburst73-xu1_

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:36 AM

to answer the question,,, no the jl and ql blocks never had the duel cast dates in that era,

7-8-9-10-11 months of 1973,,, did the np and jp yes some did and some didnt,,,having a car with or without one of these duel cast blocks dont meen you have a re-bodied car like crab recons,,, but in saying that there was a change made to the bodies of the 73 bathurst cars and this change was very miner and was made between the 21-27 of the 8-1973...

cheers gong

+1 :iagree:

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#13 _Skapinad_

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:45 AM

be careful what ya post... richo is back !

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#14 _Mike73_

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:43 PM

Hello all Mike 73 here, the reference to me needs to be elaberated on a little, I do accept that some blocks were different in the Aug 73 period in production and also that some NP replacements were different from Aug 72 to Aug 74 , but not all NP's were the same.

The dual date thing is interesting and something that was known before the production of Torana Tough.

While the dual date blocks seem to have had alterations for specific reasons it is not known if this was hand rubbing of sand cores to allow more metal in key areas, or a different cast Iron, ( or both for that matter), i believe meturlurgical testing is taking place to detirmine this, being a fitter machinist I have studdied meturlurgy and understand these differences.

Time will tell but it may be simply that dual date blocks contained strengthened areas and might not have had a different cast iron at all, will wait and see how history pans out.

I own a Aug 73 GTR and the original engine does not have dual cast dates, this was mainly a late production XU-1 thing, and some NP replacement thing, but not necessarily totally confined to XU-1's.

I have not seen a dual date QL block, but I would not say this never happened, as I do know that some specific performance blocks did make it into QL and CD engine production, the number would be very low ( probably something like 20 ) if this occurred.

As far as crancase markings all these performance blocks do not always have an X mark, though this a prodoment feature.

All cyl blocks in a given time period, in this instance the 72 to 74 period will share the same crancase marks, just some are more common than others, I have examples of most of these, and have records of even more.

Mike

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#15 _Skapinad_

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 08:20 AM

If a thread gets reported then it needs looking over... as that one had

Since I'm really not interested in sifting thru 6 pages of dribble right now it can wait till after Toranafest

I'd never even looked in the thread till it was reported... I can't read everything so I assume you blokes are playing nice till I'm told otherwise.

As for the other thread your talking about if its political and it got busted... it aint ever coming back

Wrong place for that here

Feel free to PM me if you have any concerns about content

bump

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#16 lj72bathurst

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 03:42 AM

The other dual cast thread disapeared

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#17 wot179

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 05:30 AM

good

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#18 _Skapinad_

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 06:54 AM

good

not really mate, another thread will get going then we have to listed to it all over again...

if the bloody mods would just leave one up, would save all the repetition.... not to mention that last thread blew lots of holes in the credibility of the three musketeers

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#19 yel327

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 07:21 AM

I never saw if Crabba answered why the numbers posted up of a supposedly good car to learn from weren't even off the same car. Shame. But the thread was a joke to start with, good to see it gone.

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#20 S pack

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 08:05 AM

Byron

I believe he posted up body number 85203A more than once in that thread so it must be the body number on Rob C's 'VERY ORIGINAL' XU1's body ID plate.

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#21 dattoman

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 08:57 AM

If you guys didn't piss and moan so much and turn these threads into personal attacks and shitfights you'd find they would stay around abit longer

But the childish behaviour that always comes out gets the threads reported... then removed for cleaning

While trying to clean up the abuse and dribble we realise the content of the thread can't be saved coherently so we just give up and leave the thread invisible

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#22 yel327

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 09:14 AM

Shame Datto, but some of us can't tolerate criminal or fringe criminal behaviour which is what appears to be behind all this. Faked cars, faked engine numbers and the apparent perpetrators accusing others of it that call them on it!

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#23 WhiteA9XS

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 09:34 AM

I feel i must be honest and fess up that the CAC block was a fake !

but the single cast 150 is the real deal

i think i,ll dial out for a while

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#24 jd lj

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 11:20 AM

If you guys didn't piss and moan so much and turn these threads into personal attacks and shitfights you'd find they would stay around abit longer

But the childish behaviour that always comes out gets the threads reported... then removed for cleaning
While trying to clean up the abuse and dribble we realise the content of the thread can't be saved coherently so we just give up and leave the thread invisible

Well said.
Leave the personal attacks out of it and show a bit of respect for each other and we might be able to make it a constructive thread.

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#25 _RS250_

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 12:12 PM

I feel i must be honest and fess up that the CAC block was a fake !

I was thinking that was a bit of a rev up after having a good look at it, main thing is you came out and said it.

However I'm still hoping there could be some real discussion/info around on whether a 202 block is simply basically a 202 block regardless of engine number prefix JL/JP/NP/QL.

Interesting thing last night, I was watching the 7mate "Shannon's Legends of Motorsport" topic was "Bathurst 72 race" and had interviews with Graham Moore, Frank Lowdnes and Ian Tate. Ian said that they went and hand picked the engine blocks, crankshafts, heads at Holden. This suggests that if it had to be hand picked, then one could assume nothing was made or cast specifically for the race team......at least not at that stage into their race program.

Now you have to allow that Ian is speaking about 43 years ago and memories or words can get skewed in front of a camera, however did say "hand picking from a pile at Holden" which is a pretty definitive and easy thing to recall doing. If something is made "special" their is no hand picking required......just thought I'd throw that out there....don't go and bash Ian Tate over it either....we should be thankful he has shared info to us the enthusiasts. He was the one that actually first told me "HX" camshaft was really a "XH" camshaft and that the 73 race cam was known as a "XJ" camshaft when I bought 2 off them directly from him. He had Clive Cams do them on request for me and I was just a punter off the street who walked into his workshop and he gave me at least 30mins of his time showing me around some of his old parts.

Edited by RS250, 27 November 2015 - 12:15 PM.