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Thoughts on this 202 combo


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#176 SA EH

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:04 PM

No trailer here, it's a street car dammit!

#177 N/A-PWR

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:09 PM

that's the Way Jonesy



#178 MictheAussie

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:41 AM

Looking good Jonesy. I'm interested to see what it runs.

 

is it 1/4 mile or 1/8th this weekend?

 

What is that on the back window on the wheels up pic?


Edited by MictheAussie, 26 April 2014 - 07:52 AM.


#179 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:31 PM

Got my wheels up earlier today :rockon:

I thought u said it was doughy off the line ,yours lifts them higher than Warrens .

 

attachicon.gif009.JPG



#180 SA EH

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:27 PM

Ha ha! Well thats the only way its going to get the wheels up at this rate!

 

It is pretty doughy off the line, came away from the drags last night pretty disappointed the way it ran.

Really dont know :wtf: was going on but it could only manage a 14.4 @ 95mph... (1/4 mile miccy boy)

Did 2 runs on E85 before i drained the tank & went back to premium, thinking that was the problem, but still no improvement. Its an absolute slug off the line, like im taking off with the bloody handbrake dragging. Flashing the converter hits 4000rpm but it seems to stay at that until the 60ft timers...!!?? The more timing i gave it the better off the line it was but then the top end suffered. Maybe it just doesn't have the torque to pull its heavy ass out of the hole, maybe it needs better gears or bigger converter, not sure. And nothing really happens until 5000 so everytime it would drop below that on a gearchange it would fall in a hole.  

Anyway, my thoughts were that the change to auto really sucked balls, lucky i still have the manual box laying around.

 

 

 

& thats just my fold up shelter hanging out of the window miccy boy (it wouldn't fit in the boot!)



#181 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:54 AM

Ha ha! Well thats the only way its going to get the wheels up at this rate!

 

It is pretty doughy off the line, came away from the drags last night pretty disappointed the way it ran.

Really dont know :wtf: was going on but it could only manage a 14.4 @ 95mph... (1/4 mile miccy boy)

Did 2 runs on E85 before i drained the tank & went back to premium, thinking that was the problem, but still no improvement. Its an absolute slug off the line, like im taking off with the bloody handbrake dragging. Flashing the converter hits 4000rpm but it seems to stay at that until the 60ft timers...!!?? The more timing i gave it the better off the line it was but then the top end suffered. Maybe it just doesn't have the torque to pull its heavy ass out of the hole, maybe it needs better gears or bigger converter, not sure. And nothing really happens until 5000 so everytime it would drop below that on a gearchange it would fall in a hole.  

Anyway, my thoughts were that the change to auto really sucked balls, lucky i still have the manual box laying around.

 

Hi all, saw the light on, thought I'd drop in :)

 

Don't be too despondent - you've built the motor and dropped it in but you're only half way there. The other half is tuning and setup, and this can take at least as long as the engine build. It can be a lot of fun though when all the little gains you make along the way add up.

 

First thing first - get a big notebook and record every run, every change, every test. You may end up making dozens of changes and it's easy to lose your way. With good notes you can always go back to the best combo to date. Include plenty of detail: what you changed, the combo (jetting, timing etc), how it felt and how it ran. Use the same test road and procedure every time.

 

Consistency is everything. Choose a fuel and stick with it. Chopping and changing will get you nowhere. Don't worry if you don't get spectacular results early on, what you're looking for are patterns or behaviours that tell you what the engine wants or needs. It might be tempting to throw another converter (or a manual) in it but first make sure it's making as much low end torque as it can. Once you've done that you can make changes to the driveline to get the good numbers.

 

Use an A/F meter. Just like with timing, improvements made at one end of the rpm range are often at the expense of the other end. Your ET may stay the same but the A/F meter will show whats going on and where the potential gains are.

 

I like to run a locked dissy for the preliminary testing. Ignore ET for the time being, just test until you find out what it wants to get out of the hole then test again to find what's needed at the top end. Use that info to put together a timing curve. Make life easy for yourself and use a dissy that's easy to adjust. Be aware that anything in the tune or setup that's less than optimal will cause the engine to want more advance. As you home in on the perfect setup you'll find the engine will want progressively less and less advance.

 

Basically, be patient and systematic, don't make changes impulsively, make good notes, review them and look for patterns. The performance will come.



#182 warrenm

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:22 AM

Couldn't agree more oldjohnno, I have every pass logged in a book with time card info. My car went from 14.0 to 13.2, over a period of time using the same setup just changing driving technique, jetting,tyre pressures etc. without buying anything new, just used what I had on the car.



#183 _Macca97_

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:40 PM

14.4 is defently alot better than standard, keep us updated though, would really love to hear how much it has in it :)

 

149 LC "Low Compression" Standard Sedan Manual:
        1st: 32 mph (51 km/h)
        2nd: 68 mph (109 km/h)
        3rd: 85 mph (137 km/h)
        0-60 mph (0-97 km/h): 15.8 seconds
        Standing Quarter Mile (400 metres): 20.2 seconds
    149 HC "High Compression" Standard Sedan Manual:
        1st: 40 mph (64 km/h)
        2nd: 69 mph (111 km/h)
        3rd: 93mph (149 km/h)
        0-60mph (0-97 km/h): 13.1 seconds
        Standing Quarter Mile (400 metres): 19.3 seconds
    149 HC "High Compression" Standard Sedan Hydramatic Automatic:
        1st: 33 mph (53 km/h)
        2nd: 59 mph (95 km/h)
        3rd: 88 mph (142 km/h)
        0-60 mph (0-97 km/h): 15.7 seconds
        Standing Quarter Mile (400 metres): 21 seconds
    179 S4 Sedan Manual:
        1st: 40 mph (64 km/h)
        2nd: 69 mph (111 km/h)
        3rd: 95 mph (156 km/h)
        0-60 mph (0-97 km/h): 11 seconds
        Standing Quarter Mile (400 metres): 19.0 seconds
    179 Premier Hydramatic Automatic:
        1st: 35 mph (56 km/h)
        2nd: 62 mph (100 km/h)
        3rd: 96.7 mph (156 km/h)
        0-60 mph (0-97 km/h): 14.1 seconds
        Standing Quarter Mile (400 metres): 19.8 seconds



#184 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:43 PM

And those figures are usually the best of several runs downhill with a tailwind over a standing 390 meters.....If you get my drift....

 

Cheers. 



#185 SA EH

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:16 PM

Makes me feel SO much better Bomber.
Cheers guys

Still getting compression into the cooling system, puking coolant every time I drive the car.
Cracked head? Cracked block? Head gasket again? I think you know where this is heading...

#186 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:28 PM

Yeah mine did that just before the hole in the combustion chamber got big enough to start humping water into the cylinders and out of the exhaust pipe. 



#187 SA EH

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:37 PM

Yeah no joke im so pi$$ed off after spending descent coin on that head though... hope its not that. But, meh! Thats life i guess.



#188 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:49 PM

My failed head owed me about 3k. 

 

I know the pain. 

 

Greens nice has a new core for me now, and one night i'll get around to stripping down my old head and sending him all the useable stuff, start again, slowly slowly....

 

Not saying thats the issue, and i hope its not, so dont go tearing her down yet. 

 

Checked the thermostat?

 

Cheers. 



#189 greens nice

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:10 PM

What gasket are you using? Ive never had a problem aspirated with an acl/monotorque gasket and standard bolts, used studs this time around for insurance.

Check that the cylinder head dowel's aren't holding up, IE shaved head and the dowel hole in the head isn't deep enough.



#190 N/A-PWR

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:15 PM

yep, Cooling system gas leaks,

I changed Head Gaskets 3 times, put stop leak every time too on a standard work ute, still getting worse.

So got another motor in with a different head, all fixed. Dave  I



#191 SA EH

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:18 PM

I've just got a feeling this time round Kev that its not the head gasket. Its an MLS gasket from Gasket Solutions but i reckon its still ok. Will carry out compression checks etc this weekend if i get the chance. But good idea checking dowell holes.

The thermostat should be ok bomber, it tested ok before it went in this time round, and it is fairly new.



#192 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:56 PM

Hey Jonesy , its only early days and you havn't even scratched the surface , like Jonno and Warren said you need to get the best from this combo before you make big changes , learn from it  and take notes as you go.

Firstly the 95 mph speed is enough for a 13.7-13-8 you just have to get the car to do it . What was the 60 ft time and was there much wheelspin? you can calculate the actual rear wheel horsepower in the car on the day from this formula HP= (MPH /234 )3 X weight in lbs with the driver which is about 166HP . As you thought you are losing lots time in the first half of the track ,work on this first and you'll find 6 tenths .Also what rpm did you cross the line at ?



#193 SA EH

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:29 PM

Apprecitate the info Mick, and yeah it is early days. I guess my expectations were too high.

I couldnt get it to wheelspin, even if i tried mate. best 60ft time at 2.159, crossing the line at 5k ish at 94.65mph.

 

 

Now the only downside is, i cant even let it warm up, do a 1/4 mile pass then return to the pits without the coolant spewing issue...



#194 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:36 PM

You shoudl be able to take half a second off that 60' alone with slicks?

 

Cheers. 



#195 _STRAIGHTLINEMICK_

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:04 PM

Yep you will need sticky tyres to get into 13s but first we need to work out why there is a lack oof low end torque . I looked up the cam specs and its a bit bigger and has longer ramps than optimum but still can be made to work . Did you dial it in to the cam card ? what is your compression ratio and cranking pressure ?



#196 N/A-PWR

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:05 PM

did you weigh the EH Jonesy - what is the weight



and what was the LC's weight too please



#197 N/A-PWR

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:09 PM

did you weigh the EH Jonesy - what is the weight


 

and what was the LC's weight too please

 

 

 

 

Oh, and welcome back Oldjohnno:-

http://www.gmh-toran...e-8#entry827021

 

Hi all, saw the light on, thought I'd drop in :)

 

Don't be too despondent - you've built the motor and dropped it in but you're only half way there. The other half is tuning and setup, and this can take at least as long as the engine build. It can be a lot of fun though when all the little gains you make along the way add up.

 

First thing first - get a big notebook and record every run, every change, every test. You may end up making dozens of changes and it's easy to lose your way. With good notes you can always go back to the best combo to date. Include plenty of detail: what you changed, the combo (jetting, timing etc), how it felt and how it ran. Use the same test road and procedure every time.

 

Consistency is everything. Choose a fuel and stick with it. Chopping and changing will get you nowhere. Don't worry if you don't get spectacular results early on, what you're looking for are patterns or behaviours that tell you what the engine wants or needs. It might be tempting to throw another converter (or a manual) in it but first make sure it's making as much low end torque as it can. Once you've done that you can make changes to the driveline to get the good numbers.

 

Use an A/F meter. Just like with timing, improvements made at one end of the rpm range are often at the expense of the other end. Your ET may stay the same but the A/F meter will show whats going on and where the potential gains are.

 

I like to run a locked dissy for the preliminary testing. Ignore ET for the time being, just test until you find out what it wants to get out of the hole then test again to find what's needed at the top end. Use that info to put together a timing curve. Make life easy for yourself and use a dissy that's easy to adjust. Be aware that anything in the tune or setup that's less than optimal will cause the engine to want more advance. As you home in on the perfect setup you'll find the engine will want progressively less and less advance.

 

Basically, be patient and systematic, don't make changes impulsively, make good notes, review them and look for patterns. The performance will come.



#198 SA EH

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:21 PM

Welcome back indeed Oldjohnno, never a better time to have a complee team on board!

Yeah Dave the EH weighed in at 1231kg - im pushing my mate to get the lc done this week.

 

Mick, the cam was dialed in, like the last one, ending up being dot to dot.

Compression is 11.5:1

Cranking pressure - will let you know on the weekend.

Appreciating the help muchly fellas  :spoton:

 

Trying to get a vid up of one of the runs...


Edited by SA EH, 28 April 2014 - 10:23 PM.


#199 SA EH

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:41 PM

Here it is...

 

http://youtu.be/svlf2QgOroc



#200 N/A-PWR

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:47 PM

 

Jonesy, my 9 port head is 63mm x 41mm at the Inlets



Great Sound, the Red 6 Hey






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