642 replies to this topic

[RallyRed]

this was always going to be a sad / emotional thread.

Just as a matter of interest, does anyone actually KNOW what percentage of the cost of a new Holden, is DIRECTLY related
to wages IN THE FACTORY?
i.e. I'm assuming most of the parts suppliers are NON UNION places.

So,if the big bad union guys at Holden have rorted the place into oblivion.....and their wages cost is ,say 5% ???? of a new
car (I dont know by the way), then if they took an 80% pay cut ( YES 80% cut ) then the car would COST 4% less to make.

Just what that would do for the SALE price, well I dont know.

The other thing to ponder is...just say a new SV6 was retailing at $17990 drive away.....how many would they sell?

Its all to easy to blame the government ( either persuasion ) or the unions, or the whatever.

[RallyRed]

I asked the same question several pages ago and got the run around and a whole heap of bla bla bleep bleeps.
 
And just remembered, Thumbs up for Howards last post, wheres teh like button?
 
Cheers.

sorry Bomber....I got lost in some of the longer posts, and just went to the end,......

[Collo]

Looks like we've hit the trifecta...

Bye Bye Toyota

Edited by slr_v8, 13 December 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Dr Terry]

this was always going to be a sad / emotional thread.

Just as a matter of interest, does anyone actually KNOW what percentage of the cost of a new Holden, is DIRECTLY related
to wages IN THE FACTORY?
i.e. I'm assuming most of the parts suppliers are NON UNION places.

So,if the big bad union guys at Holden have rorted the place into oblivion.....and their wages cost is ,say 5% ???? of a new
car (I dont know by the way), then if they took an 80% pay cut ( YES 80% cut ) then the car would COST 4% less to make.

Just what that would do for the SALE price, well I dont know.

The other thing to ponder is...just say a new SV6 was retailing at $17990 drive away.....how many would they sell?

Its all to easy to blame the government ( either persuasion ) or the unions, or the whatever.

Wages are the biggest single overhead in manufacturing. Much more than raw materials or rent.

 

Once again simple arithmetic will tell the story.

 

If you get the gross wage figure & then divide it by the total number of cars which exit the factory gate you will have your number.

 

The exact gross wage figure is probably a closely guarded secret but figures like $1.2B & $900M have been thrown around in the media. Let's pick the lower figure for example, to keep the number conservative. Total no. of cars produced (incl. exports) in the last year (2012) approx. 80,000.

 

$900M divided by 80,000 equals $11,250 per car. Now this figure is at best a guestimate, but again is in line with figures that are often thrown around in the media. It could be only $9,000 or it could be $12,500 depending on what those gross numbers really are.

 

There is also other labour to be accounted for. Every one of those parts or assemblies sourced outside the Holden factory, includes a content of labour also. So it wouldn't be over-exaggerating to suggest that the labour content could be as high as 50% of the retail cost of a new Holden.

 

Dr Terry

[Potta]

And that right there is why they are pulling out.

 

If they can halve their costs elsewhere, they can lower the price for increased sales and increased profit = GM out of the sh!t.

[EunUCh]

It would have been easy to prevent the demise of GMH a long time ago but it is too late now.

 

Back in the early 1930's our  industry was was semi protected by laws that stated that automobiles that came to this country

were required to have a certain % of Australian content.In those early years most cars in this country had bodies made by T.J.Richards of Adelaide.

 

The Holden brothers came along later as body builders and amalgamated with GM from America which was funded by Buik and a couple of others in the states.

Holden as we know them have been around longer than most people think.

Holden bodied 39 Buik for example..

 

How about a a 37 Vauxhall

 

Despite what the bean counters,unions,press,company bosses say IF we had some people that really cared for our Nation as a whole for the good

of all they would have kept the protection laws and slapped every import with hefty taxes then we would not be where we are now.

We were once one of the most innovative,free,rich protestant nations left.

 

But alas...they are all working together despite the petty differences they portray to us as fact to do exactly what is happening,like it or not.

 

"The further back I look the further forward I can see"...never a truer statement spoken.Dont ignore history.

[Bart]

Which is why they should have cut pay to at least the award amount to have a chance

[S pack]

Which is why they should have cut pay to at least the award amount to have a chance

And that alone still wouldn't save them, just prolong the inevitable.

[Bart]

That alone you're probably right.

A whole bunch of changes needed to be made including model of car, management, gov tariffs, unions, carbon tax, renewable energy pushing power cost up and up, mate when i think of it there realy is no chance. I think this is all part of deindustrialising Australia. Turn us into 3rd world as many in the UN have said it is their duty to do to wealthy countries. But that another story, but relevant to our issues.

[Bart]

I agree Noball

I dont think we need hefty tariff just enough to keep the playing field fair but gov's on all sides reduced even zero tariff's on imports when we export a Ford Territory to Asia in a "free trade" agreement yes it has no tariff when it arrives there but is hit with other taxes which made it cost 100000. Who in this Asian counrty would buy a Territory for 100k? We wouldnt even pay that mean while with this "free trade" shit we suck their shit boxes in with zero tariff zero tax. Fair trade? Fair shit i say

[Dr Terry]

Back in the early 1930's our industry was was semi protected by laws that stated that automobiles that came to this country
were required to have a certain % of Australian content.In those early years most cars in this country had bodies made by T.J.Richards of Adelaide.

The Holden brothers came along later as body builders and amalgamated with GM from America which was funded by Buik and a couple of others in the states.

A few inaccuracies there.

It wasn't the 1930s, it was before WWI.

TJ Richard's history is a little sketchy, but it appears they built their first car body around 1913-14. TJ Richards was swallowed up in 1951, to become Chrysler Australia, which in 1980 became Mitsubishi Australia, only to finally cease local manufacture in 2008.

Holden & Frost (not the Holden brothers) began motor body building in 1917 (the 2017 closure will actually mark their centenary). In 1931 Holden Motor Body Builders 'merged' with GM Australia to become General Motors - Holden. From 1917 up until the 48 Holden was released they built about 800,000 cars, Most of these were GM vehicles, Chevs, Pontiacs, Buicks, Vauxhalls, Bedfords etc. etc. However back before the GM merger they built Ford Ts & Dodges etc.

Dr Terry.

[Bart]

Hey NOBALL

How much union was involved in these early days of Holden??

I imagine not much because if todays union was involved back in the day we never would have heard of Holden or own one

[Statler]

Hey NOBALL

How much union was involved in these early days of Holden??

I imagine not much because if todays union was involved back in the day we never would have heard of Holden or own one

Feel free to support this mindless drivel with something factual. 

[Bart]

May be mindless drivel to you, all I want to do is show the difference between union and no union and stupid free trades and other stupid laws

[Statler]

Oh well in that case, plz educate me on the difference between a Union & a non-union shop? 

[Dr Terry]

I'm not sure when trade unions actually took hold in the vehicle building industry, but I would have thought they were quite well organised into the 50s. They would've been thinking of both workers wages & conditions, & strangely they might have even been thinking of the company's long term future.

 

It wasn't until the mid-60s that they started getting noisy & granted, back then most of their claims would've been legitimate.

 

It's a pity that the unions these days have had so much control, & care little for the company or the tax payer.

 

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Oh well in that case, plz educate me on the difference between a Union & a non-union shop? 

A non-union shop is one that is free from the interference from the union movement & their associated thugs, so probably has a long term future.

 

Dr Terry

[Bart]

Dr Terry pretty well said it all. I agree

[SS hatch]

Unions, wages and all the other reasons.The western society relies on the greed of money which Aust is grossly a part of. How would you survive if lower wages you don't in this country.You wouldn't be able to fill the tank of your imported car, pay all the other expenses which come with living in the great country. All industries are skimping on quality and any other method to increase the profit margin or at the least still make a profit. Really Holden hasn't produced a car that's worthy of its predecessors in years I'm talking build quality for the price.Yes nice to drive but last no its simple this country cant compete when a can of coke and a pie costs $10. Its a vicious circle living costs rise wages go up being a Pty company every year insurances, liability, compensation, increase so what do we do we raise our charge out costs to compensate, and so the circle goes on.I may be wrong but where at the top of the mountain and theirs no more going up its only down and major company's will follow Holdens decision as others have already.I don't know the answer but I do know life was much simpler cheaper prior 90s when we did work for 15 bucks an hr. Theres plenty more pain to come until we find the right pill.