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Holden Pull Out

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#251 _LXSS350_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:46 AM

After all the reporting, the gobbledygook and blame game even Holden's CEO made it perfectly clear - the fact of the matter is that Australia is not a country that you can manufacture cars and be competitive end of story.

 

Once they had looked at all the projections and what it was costing it made no sense for either GM or the Government to keep loosing money to keep those people employed. Why go to work knowing your business is going to loose money? Sure you are employing but thats can't keep going on forever and lets face it the government has been pumping money in since the start and still they are loosing every day they remain open. How many business owners here would keep the doors open bleeding this type of money?

 

Sure you can ask for a bigger freebie handout from taxpayers to keep your loosing business going but this makes far more sense than throwing taxpayers money down the drain on a loosing business model.

 

Very obvious from actual market sighting of 2013 numbers that it doesn't matter if VF dunny was the best large car ever manufactured in the history of the world.

 

The world market simply doesn't want to buy titanic sized cars and building one is clearly going against where the market has been going for over a decade.

 

Why any business would choose to go directly against what the market numbers are telling them is anyone guess.

 

Even GM admitted they where building the wrong cars but unlike Holden they have corrected their mistakes.

 

Now the big whale is finally dead not quite buried  ------ - long live the Chevy Volt and its tiny little offspring. :stirpot:
 

America's 20 best-selling cars in October 2013 are as follows.

November 2013 • September 2013 â€¢ October 2012

Rank
Best-Selling Car
October 2013
October
2012
% Change
2013 YTD 2012 YTD % Change
#1
Toyota Camry
29,144 29,926 - 2.6% 348,134 344,714 1.0%
#2
Honda Civic
27,328 20,687 32.1% 280,889 254,716 10.3%
#3
Honda Accord
25,162 28,349 - 11.2% 307,264 276,196 11.2%
#4
Toyota Corolla/Matrix
23,637 20,949 12.8% 257,184 243,652 5.6%
#5
Nissan Altima
21,785 24,623 - 11.5% 271,303 258,663 4.9%
#6
Ford Fusion
21,740 12,690 71.3% 248,033 206,855 19.9%
#7
Hyundai Sonata
19,872 16,773 18.5% 172,574 192,119 - 10.2%
#8
Chevrolet Cruze
16,087 19,121 - 15.9% 211,862 199,721 6.1%
#9
Chevrolet Malibu
15,746 9629 63.5% 170,696 189,094 - 9.7%
#10
Ford Focus
15,108 18,320 - 17.5% 203,762 205,006 - 0.6%
#11
Hyundai Elantra
14,876 14,512 2.5% 209,469 167,087 25.4%
#12
BMW 
3-Series & 4-Series *
11,715 9729 20.4% 89,636 78,081 14.8%
#13
Chevrolet Impala
11,713 8368 40.0% 132,746 148,547 - 10.6%
#14
Volkswagen Jetta
11,710 13,476 - 13.1% 135,983 140,504 - 3.2%
#15
Kia Optima
11,492 12,948 - 11.2% 135,548 127,676 6.2%
#16
Toyota Prius
10,334 10,677 - 3.2% 135,559 135,669 - 0.1%
 
Prius Sedan
8239 8788 - 6.2% 125,490 126,046 - 0.4%
 
Prius Plug-In
2095 1889 10.9% 10,069 9623 4.6%
#17
Nissan Versa
8626 8311 3.8% 100,161 93,883 6.7%
#18
Nissan Sentra
8399 5624 49.3% 106,680 91,464 16.6%
#19
Chrysler 200
8347 8758 - 4.7% 111,207 109,025 2.0%
#20
Kia Soul
8240 7988 3.2% 98,864 101,344 - 5.4%

Source: Automakers
Red font indicates year-over-year declining sales 
* Until BMW separates 3-Series and 4-Series sales in their own release, we can't separate them, either, as BMW is up until now refusing to separate the two. 
^ Prius breakdown by variant.

 

 

Canada's 20 best-selling cars in October 2013 are as follows.

Rank
Car
October
2013
YTD
October
2012
YTD
%
Change
October
2013
October
2012
%
Change
#1
Honda Civic
54,950
53,235
3.2%
6,852
5,041
35.9%
#2
Hyundai Elantra
48,366
43,661
10.8%
4,021
4,276
-6.0%
#2.1
Hyundai Elantra Sedan/Coupe/GT * 
48,338 36,398 32.8% 4021 4236 -5.1%
#2.2
Hyundai Elantra Touring *
28 7263 -99.6% --- 40 -100%
#3
Toyota Corolla
38,430
35,559
8.1%
4,312
3,518
22.6%
#4
Mazda 3
34,024
34,888
-2.5%
3,821
2,508
52.4%
#5
Chevrolet Cruze
28,490
28,371
0.4%
3,127
3,069
1.9%
#6
Volkswagen Jetta
26,565
22,511
18.0%
3,267
2,821
15.8%
#7
Ford Focus
22,776
24,179
-5.8%
1,872
2,409
-22.3%
#8
Ford Fusion
17,764
14,588
21.8%
1,083
1,272
-14.9%
#9
Hyundai Accent
17,186
20,760
-17.2%
1,393
1,303
6.9%
#10
Toyota Camry
15,375
16,094
-4.5%
1,412
1,435
-1.6%
#10.1
Toyota Camry *
12,710 13,095 -2.9% 1192 1189 0.3%
#10.2
Toyota Camry Hybrid *
2665 2999 -11.1% 220 246 -10.6%
#11
Honda Accord
14,970
7,278
106%
1,550
1,565
-1.0%
#12
Kia Rio
14,180
11,910
19.1%
1,174
801
46.6%
#13
Nissan Sentra
12,673
9,076
39.6%
1,178
540
118%
#14
Hyundai Sonata
12,523
12,832
-2.4%
1,355
1,042
30.0%
#15
BMW 3-Series
10,934
9,384
16.5%
1,079
1,000
7.9%
#16
Chrysler 200
10,834
12,658
-14.4%
820
878
-6.6%
#16.1
Chrysler 200 Sedan *
10,228 11,973 -14.6% 816 874 -6.6%
#16.2
Chrysler 200 Convertible *
606 685 -11.5% 4 4 0.0%
#17
Volkswagen Golf
10,365
11,794
-12.1%
858
1,298
-33.9%
#18
Nissan Versa
10,184
11,368
-10.4%
1,424
1,480
-3.8%
#19
Kia Forte
9,975
13,647
-26.9%
814
1,195
-31.9%
#20
Toyota Matrix
9,790
11,659
-16.0%
668
1,006
-33.6%

Edited by LXSS350, 13 December 2013 - 11:51 AM.


#252 Dr Terry

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:10 PM

Holden make the Cruze here & Toyota make the Camry/Aurion here & neither of those are profitable, as matter of fact, less so than commodore.

 

The USA sales figures above, are for passenger vehicles only. The pick-ups (all brands, Chev, Ford, Dodge, GMC etc.) easily outsell the FWD junk in that market & it is the pick-ups where the profits are.

 

Dr Terry



#253 _Lazarus_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:14 PM

If the CEOs and upper management didn't get ridiculously high pay figures and bonuses etc in these multi-national conglomerations do you honestly think the unions would have a leg to stand on in regards to higher wages and conditions etc ?

 

Car manufacturing, agriculture and airlines are in a different category than many large national industries. They are subsidised in most First World economies due to the many subsidary industries and associated small businesses that rely on their support, both directly and indirectly.

 

The reason Australia has chosen to take an alternative path has nothing to do with national economics or commonsense, it is entirely to do with the traitorous parasites and hangers-on manipulating governmental decisions in this country to benefit themselves financially. 

 

That is the bottom line here.



#254 Dr Terry

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:38 PM

, it is entirely to do with the traitorous parasites and hangers-on manipulating governmental decisions in this country to benefit themselves financially. 

That's a little harsh, I don't like unions either, but I wouldn't call them that.

 

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#255 Bart

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:59 PM

I would call some union that



And some in Gov, on all sides particularly the left



#256 _Lazarus_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:10 PM

I was actuallly talking about the various corporate 'lobby groups' we have acquired courtesy of the ********* scum who took control of our political system with the onset of the Howard regime. 



#257 _LXSS350_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:13 PM

God !! I'm sorry but I've never read such uninformed rubish in my life. You are making all these accusations about the VF without actually giving one a fair go. They are in fact fantastic to drive with the upmarket HSV having some advanced tech on anyone's scale. Remember we are talking large 4 door sedan. Even if you haven't driven one surely you must have taken the time to read the reviews of the various models vs other unaustralian cars? On a different note lets look at the business sense side of things. if someone asks to lend $50 off you with the knowledge of a $500 return you would do it right? Obviously not !
Dr Terry is spot on !!

 

WTF it has nothing to do with selling a good car or bad car. Holden are in the passenger car manufacturing market. Holden needed volume to keep the doors open, their chosen business model to become their volume selling design (was the whale sized vf dunny) a car which is sized like no other passenger car on any of the top 20 selling passenger cars from the USA to Russia and every country in-between.

 

Holden chose an automotive business model that threw away all of the crystal clear and concise guidance from 10yrs of sales history in worldwide passenger car markets. They went into the niche whale sized market and directly against what the market has been buying in increasing numbers.

 

You could say the vf elephant in the room was parked on its creators foot.

 

The BMW 7 series or Merc S Class are not of a size that (forgetting price) that is ever going to be a volume seller for BMW or Merc because THEY ARE TOO BIG for the vast majority of buyers (excluding the obvious price differences). Its size related that is the avoidance by the market, the market will buy big 4x4 just not big passenger sedans.

 

Holden stuffed itself by choosing this as their volume selling design. Now if it was their 3rd line then fine but not as the save us your our number 1 earner to keep us open. They thought they could go against the trend but now like Saab they are heading into automotive past history.

 

The USA sales figures above, are for passenger vehicles only. The pick-ups (all brands, Chev, Ford, Dodge, GMC etc.) easily outsell the FWD junk in that market & it is the pick-ups where the profits are.

 

I know that as I chose not to post usa pick-up numbers because my logic is what the hell do Full Sized Pick-Ups have to do with the Dunnydore and Holden???

 

Maybe I am wrong because you seem to want to compare Full Sized Pick-ups now? But I have always thought the Dunny was a passenger car not a full size pick-up or 4x4.

 

Thinking out aloud again I just thought we are better to stick to the topic although I do understand in the usa that Freightliner are still selling well.



#258 Bart

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:20 PM

LXSS350 makes allot of sense



#259 StephenSLR

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:42 PM

OZ131213.jpg
 
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#260 Litre8

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:46 PM

^LOL



#261 _LXSS350_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:48 PM

Look the issue is if you want to pick up volume in export to offset your domestic lets say you enter the usa market (one of the worlds biggest). Now Oct 2013 the camry sold 29,144 units down to No 20 the Kia Soul at 8240 units. Trouble is none of those are in the same market as the dunny but yet this is the car that has been hailed and created as Holdens No 1 income earner (or supposed to be). Anyone see something very wrong with Holden's Business Model that has zero to do with the dunny being a good, bad or ugly car? Obviously its was not created for the majority of buyers or to follow worldwide market trends.

 

Name me another 2013 manufacturer that has their mainstay volume income model the size of the titanic dunny (not one that's folded up or about to fold)



#262 Litre8

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:59 PM

I think if you take out pickups from both GM and Ford in the US you would have a large dent in their income.?



#263 Litre8

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:02 PM

So if this is all about GMH's bad business model of  large cars dependency then how do you explain the past demise of Nissan, Mitsubishi and now, probably, Toyota?



#264 Dr Terry

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:03 PM

I was actuallly talking about the various corporate 'lobby groups' we have acquired courtesy of the ********* scum who took control of our political system with the onset of the Howard regime. 

Who are these groups of which you speak ? 

 

Are you saying that the Howard govt. was externally controlled, but the Hawke, Keating, Krudd & Juliar govts were not.

 

Dr Terry



#265 Dr Terry

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:06 PM

So if this is all about GMH's bad business model of  large cars dependency then how do you explain the past demise of Nissan, Mitsubishi and now, probably, Toyota?

It's not about the size of the car. There is only one person on this forum (who can't even spell Commodore) pushing that line, while refusing to accept that the high $ exchange rate, hideous wages, carbon tax, & other overheads etc. etc. have had even a slight effect.

 

Dr Terry



#266 Ice

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:07 PM

Going over and over this topic aint going to change things and playing the blame game is stupid because no one is going to say it was there fault
holden are done and there is more than one reason they are finished you could go on all year about it but same outcome
hope you all enjoy driving your new cheap shit imports

#267 Dr Terry

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:09 PM

I think if you take out pickups from both GM and Ford in the US you would have a large dent in their income.?

A huge dent.

 

A pick-up is still a car. Heck some people even think a Chery or a Kia is a car.

 

Dr Terry 



#268 Ice

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:10 PM

Going over and over this topic aint going to change things and playing the blame game is stupid because no one is going to say it was there fault
holden are done and there is more than one reason they are finished you could go on all year about it but same outcome
hope you all enjoy driving your new cheap shit imports

It's not about the size of the car. There is only one person on this forum (who can't even spell Commodore) pushing that line, while refusing to accept that the high $ exchange rate, hideous wages, carbon tax, & other overheads etc. etc. have had even a slight effect.
 
Dr Terry


Love your work Dr Terry

#269 Bart

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:32 PM

That is funny StephenSLR but highly inaccurate and intentionally misleading. In other words you could say the same about Ford, Mitsubishi and Nissan?? Under previous gov?



#270 WA1TNC

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:42 PM

I'm actually worried about what will happen to all our old cars now as the future generations won't have anything remotely like them in the car scene in years to come. As in 10-20yrs the way the car industry seems to be heading the only rear wheel drive cars will be big tradie type utes, expensive euro & jap cars & everything else will be front wheel drive cars designed to be used until something breaks on them & then you'll just go out & get a new one as it'l be cheaper than to fix it.
I mean I grew up like most Aussie kids, got my licence, started in a affordable older(around 15yr old) rear wheel drive car, got off my p's & moved up to a newer, more powerfull rear wheel drive car, loved everything about them & that ended up with me loving older cars which 95% are rear wheel drive.

Now I'm driving down the fwy(as a passenger) as I'm writing this & observing all the cars traveling along with me & every P plate driving is either driving a full bodied commodore/falcon(1990-2013) or every other car is small front wheel drive car like a Mazda 3, lancer, corolla , focus etc....

My point being that all these younger drivers will eventually have no other option but to drive a new/old small front wheel drive car & never get into the car scene as they will end up just seeing cars as just a mode of transport as there will be nothing exciting about them & then in turn look at the old rear wheel drives with no iPod connection this & no reverse camera that & just walk straight past without even batting one eyelid at it.

Makes me very sad :(

Cheers, Nig.

#271 wot179

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:59 PM

I know that everyone on this forum, including me, is a dinosaur that runs around in old cars with outdated technology.

 

However, times change....get used to it.

 

The end of the fossil fuel motorcar is not that far away, it might just be time to find a new hobby.

 

(dons flame suit)



#272 WA1TNC

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:06 PM

Well I'm not getting rid of my cars until those hover boards arrive..... You know, the ones with the little rockets on the back that work over water

Maybe holden can start manufacturing those babies because that would be so sweeeet.

Cheers, Nig.

#273 _LXSS350_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:18 PM

It's not about the size of the car. There is only one person on this forum (who can't even spell Commodore) pushing that line, while refusing to accept that the high $ exchange rate, hideous wages, carbon tax, & other overheads etc. etc. have had even a slight effect.

 

Dr Terry

 

It actually does have a very large impact on your viability if you are choosing to base your "Main Income Earning model" against the market trend. That is not to say 100% that it could have saved you, but you sure as shooting eggs don't need to be going AGAINST - what your majority market is telling you that THEY ARE BUYING.

 

They had abandoned the dunny and falcoon since 2005 not just today.

 

Nothing to do with you or I but MAJORITY MARKET.

When your in business you choose the model you will use and Holden like Fraud went to the BIG SEDAN MODELand the market as clearly seen doesn't want to buy Big Sedans.

 

Why not follow where the money is? Why try and fight against it especially when you have been a decade in red?

 

Correct Holden probably would have still died, but start on the front foot, basing your business on that Whale was a waste of time, money and effort that would have been far better spent developing an Australian volt or small city car (anything but a whale).

 

Even the heavy protected subsidised car companies like BMW and Merc know the Big Sedan Whales are dead in the water dinosaurs. You even seeing the trend slowly following in the SUV getting downsized from X5 - X3 - X1 etc. Big was a seller in the 80's and besides semi- prime movers,  4x4's are the only big vehicles selling..



#274 _oz772_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:24 PM

Name me another 2013 manufacturer that has their mainstay volume income model the size of the titanic dunny (not one that's folded up or about to fold)

A point on that comment. I think you will find the answer to that is Mercedes Benz with it's E class. It certainly used to be the mainstay of Benz throughout the world. Masses of them in the US and Africa. I can't find the latest figures though. They are more profitable than the smaller cars.


Edited by oz772, 13 December 2013 - 03:26 PM.


#275 _Lazarus_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:34 PM

Who are these groups of which you speak ? 

 

Are you saying that the Howard govt. was externally controlled, but the Hawke, Keating, Krudd & Juliar govts were not.

 

Dr Terry

 

Keating is / was his own man, as was Whitlam. The Libs have no understanding of such concepts.

 

Howard opened the gates to an entirely new era for Australian Politics. He sold us out completely in return for his spite fueled 11 years at the top.

 

Rudd took on our new masters, who's position was reinforced post 9 \11 via the legislation brought in to curtail our freedoms, and suffered accordingly.

 

http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=625640

 

Gillard did as she was told. You may have noted that all the decent Labor politicians remaining from the Keating / Hawke years such as Faulkner retired after the sacking of Rudd.

 

 

Abbott is even more of a puppet than John the Browntongue Howard was. He actually wears an earpiece during interviews and is told how to reply by his minder.

 

This is common knowledge amongst those who actually give a sh!t.

 

 

.






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