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Holden Pull Out

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#276 _LXSS350_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

I think if you take out pickups from both GM and Ford in the US you would have a large dent in their income.?

 

 

L8 both Fraud and GM would be suicidal to not build models that the market obviously wants. By the same token they would be foolish to offer the same full sized pick-up model in oz because its not going to sell and would be a total waste of money in comparison to the USA market sales.

 

Its all about building what the market wants not what you want to sell them and this is where Holden went MIA on their business model. The dunny should have got buried a decade ago when its sales clearly showed we had had enough of large sedans.



#277 _LXSS350_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:46 PM

A point on that comment. I think you will find the answer to that is Mercedes Benz with it's E class. It certainly used to be the mainstay of Benz throughout the world. Masses of them in the US and Africa. I can't find the latest figures though. They are more profitable than the smaller cars.

 

 

It might have been but the new Mercedes-Benz compacts are Merc big sellers now:  A-Class, B-Class or CLA-Class model, in Oct raised the brand’s compact vehicle sales by 72.7%.



#278 Bart

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:46 PM

Agreed^ LXSS350



#279 Dr Terry

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:12 PM

It might have been but the new Mercedes-Benz compacts are Merc big sellers now:  A-Class, B-Class or CLA-Class model, in Oct raised the brand’s compact vehicle sales by 72.7%.

As Ford, Toyota & GM-H have found, as each have been market leaders in the past few decades, a big market share doesn't equate to high profits.

 

Toyota in Australia has a huge market share (mostly imports of course) but they rarely make a profit. BMW & M/Benz who sell medium quantities of very average cars (for twice the price they are Europe BTW) are very profitable.

 

Dr Terry



#280 Dr Terry

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:20 PM

 The dunny should have got buried a decade ago when its sales clearly showed we had had enough of large sedans.

If you mean the Commodore, it was far & away the top seller a decade ago. It was also Australia's biggest export (more $$$ than mining). If they are selling like gangbusters why change the recipe. As far as GM US was concerned this was to be there large global platform to be sold in countless markets across the globe.

 

At that time (2001-2004) the VE was in its gestation period & without having your crystal ball, the future was looking rosy,  Who predicted the GFC ?? Was it you.

 

Dr Terry



#281 _oz772_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:24 PM

It might have been but the new Mercedes-Benz compacts are Merc big sellers now:  A-Class, B-Class or CLA-Class model, in Oct raised the brand’s compact vehicle sales by 72.7%.

Yep. That just tells you their compact sales have risen; it doesn't mention how they compare with the full-sized car sales. Can you find any data on what their biggest selling model is in the world? I can't seem to track it down. Just from observations in my travels, the E-class is everywhere on the roads in the US. The butt-ugly CLA is the only small car they sell there, and they have only been released; I see a few in LA, but the owners are surely embarrassed. E classes also dominate the landscape of Africa. Same same, the middle east, though they may be outdone by the S class and the ML. I've noticed B-classes starting to take over from the E class in Germany for the taxi operators. As I say, I can't find the numbers.....either way, it doesn't matter. What Benz does/has been able to do is irrelevant to Australia's landscape of car manufacturing.



#282 Bart

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:32 PM

There were a few commentators who predicted the GFC about 10 years ago, one commentator predicted it for years and right about a few months before it happened. In 2007 Costello said we will be entering hard times when he was still treasurer. But thats another story
I think the trouble was VE was too big for most Australians and couldnt sell enough and a cheap enough price OS particularly Asian countries where they tax the shit out of what we export.



#283 _LXSS350_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:37 PM

Dr Terry I don't disagree with what you are saying re Aust, some valid and very justifiable points, but Holden new their position for decades and new since 2005 that all the new dunny's had been failing in what they needed (volume to gain viability).

 

Why the hell would you keep walking into the same wall when you bloody new that it was there????

They spent how many mega millions on the VF,  yet they new for over 15yrs the dunny had gone from 90,000 odd to 30,000. So what it might be the best vibrating rabbit of car world - the absolute best thing under the sun  --------  the betamax of cars ---- But if no one is buying it then its totally worthless.

 

For Holden to survive everything had to be done right not just rely on luck.



#284 MARKL

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:58 PM

Keating is / was his own man....

 

.

Manufacturing in Australia would have died in the 80's if it wasn't Keating/Hawke/Button. The drivel that has been written in the papers and various forums over the last few days is mind boggling. The Button plan invigorated our manufacturing industry in the 80's & 90's - it intended to get rid of the weak manufacturers but create a stronger more efficient sector - which it delivered.

 

As we moved into the early 2,000's when it became obvious that 'free trade' wasn't equal the Howard/Costello and subsequent governments needed to show some leadership and prepare a plan for the manufacturing sector (or at least update the Button plan). Instead Howard and subsequent governments celebrated how good we are at digging crap out of the ground and rode the mining boom. At the moment I don't see any plan for Australian manufacturing and I think that is scary - you can only sell coal once, you need a plan for the future.

 

Whilst I believe the VE & VF are great cars there size has undoubtedly hurt them, probably a bit unlucky with the GFC but as car sizes have crept up over the years the small and medium size segments are not that different in size to Commodores of recent past. As cars got bigger Holden probably needed to stop at VT size or even slightly reduce.

 

Interesting facts on car dimensions, the fastest/best selling car ever in Australia EH compared to current best seller strolla 

 

Year       Long          Width        Height       Weight

1964      4,511mm   1,727mm   1,478mm    1,200kg

2013      4,545mm   1,760mm   1,475mm    1,310kg


Edited by MARKL, 13 December 2013 - 05:59 PM.


#285 TerrA LX

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 06:41 PM

Wages are the biggest single overhead in manufacturing. Much more than raw materials or rent.
 
Once again simple arithmetic will tell the story.

You keep banging on about wages being the problem, yeah wages are the problem alright, the third world wages they are paying in all these OS manufacturing facilities...

#286 RallyRed

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 07:36 PM

it''s happened, it aint coming back.
Over it.

#287 Ice

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 07:46 PM

it''s happened, it aint coming back.Over it.


Spot on col but we keep going over and over the same old ground

#288 Statler

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 07:47 PM

Australia, land of the rear wheel drive V8.

 

Soon to be ..... Australia, good luck passing that road train  (or most overtaking lanes) without having a head on. 



#289 rodomo

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 07:57 PM

I've got 3..................I'm happy.

#290 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:23 PM

Manufacturing in Australia would have died in the 80's if it wasn't Keating/Hawke/Button. The drivel that has been written in the papers and various forums over the last few days is mind boggling. The Button plan invigorated our manufacturing industry in the 80's & 90's - it intended to get rid of the weak manufacturers but create a stronger more efficient sector - which it delivered.

 

As we moved into the early 2,000's when it became obvious that 'free trade' wasn't equal the Howard/Costello and subsequent governments needed to show some leadership and prepare a plan for the manufacturing sector (or at least update the Button plan). Instead Howard and subsequent governments celebrated how good we are at digging crap out of the ground and rode the mining boom. At the moment I don't see any plan for Australian manufacturing and I think that is scary - you can only sell coal once, you need a plan for the future.

 

Whilst I believe the VE & VF are great cars there size has undoubtedly hurt them, probably a bit unlucky with the GFC but as car sizes have crept up over the years the small and medium size segments are not that different in size to Commodores of recent past. As cars got bigger Holden probably needed to stop at VT size or even slightly reduce.

 

Interesting facts on car dimensions, the fastest/best selling car ever in Australia EH compared to current best seller strolla 

 

Year       Long          Width        Height       Weight

1964      4,511mm   1,727mm   1,478mm    1,200kg

2013      4,545mm   1,760mm   1,475mm    1,310kg

Totally agree, i've never heard so much shit in my life...  most off you if not all,  earn good money thats how you can afford the Torana's you own... and good fuk'n luck to ya's..  but to blame other workers who may work in a different industry for earning good money so maybe they can own nice cars is stupid, who the fuk are you people to dictate whats right for some and not for others....  as i said i'm no no unionist freak by any extreme, quite the oppersite, i too have paid Union fee's for years and received nothing in return....even when retrenched,  but the alternative for manufacturing workers is to be dominated by bosses without a voice... Who says a moron Surveyor is entitled to $100,000 + a year, any frockwit with a calculator could do that job, and OH&S, I have a Diploma in OH&S, $120,000 a year what a load of shit..... I worked twice as hard, and needed a lot more knowledge and skill to build mining equipment as a boilermaker on $50,000,,,   cut there wages you say.....  OK lets half all house prices in australia too so our kids can fuk'n afford a house to, because as of now,  we cant import a cheap houses from Asia...  while i can understand the logic behind flogging a dead horse...  and maybe it was always doomed... I cant get past, the high and mighty stance some off you are putting forward...   I would love to see how you would rate as a valuable employee, but I know self recomendation is no recommendation .......



#291 rodomo

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:26 PM

Year Long Width Height Weight

1964 4,511mm 1,727mm 1,478mm 1,200kg

2013 4,545mm 1,760mm 1,475mm 1,310kg

MPG and power?


Edited by rodomo, 13 December 2013 - 08:27 PM.


#292 _SRV_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:30 PM

Why is this still going. Should have been wrapped up 6 pages ago. God yas can go on. 



#293 Litre8

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:32 PM

^Agree, time to put this to bed....



#294 TerrA LX

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:40 PM

Year Long Width Height Weight

1964 4,511mm 1,727mm 1,478mm 1,200kg

2013 4,545mm 1,760mm 1,475mm 1,310kg

MPG and power?

Length...

God yas can go on.

Cause we can, were not on Holden wages here haha

#295 RallyRed

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:41 PM

Iwas out of this one, but....just before someone does close it down.......tick.....tick....hey Chaos....emotional...but fair, I
reckon.

+1 for me.

a wise old man once said ...""there but by the grace of god""...

#296 _Lazarus_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:46 PM

If we had a government that gave a sh!t they would take Mark De Wits advice, and sponsor a company (preferably Holden) to manufacture a mid sized family sedan that runs exclusively on CNG. All government vehicles where possible could also be supplied by this company, also exclusively CNG powered. Last I heard we were selling this resource to the Chinese for 12c per litre.

 

Tariffs should indeed be reciprocal, we charge other countries precisely what they charge us.

 

It is time the present government stopped crapping on about this supposed debt problem (which is complete BS, less than 10% of our annual GDP), showed some vision and directed investment into projects which will benefit the general public now and into the future.

 

That is how you create a vibrant economy, with intelligent policies which will benefit the nation.

 

If people have more money to spend, because they are not being bled dry by multi-national extortionists like the fuel companies, they have money to create and support local businesses.

 

The trickle down model is an abject failure for the common people. It always was a scam. The results are there for all to see. The demise of Holden is just one.

 

The rich don't give a frOck. I thought we learnt that hundreds of years ago...

 

 

 

 

 

.


Edited by GTR - U9X, 13 December 2013 - 08:51 PM.


#297 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:47 PM

Well I'm not getting rid of my cars until those hover boards arrive..... You know, the ones with the little rockets on the back that work over water

Maybe holden can start manufacturing those babies because that would be so sweeeet.

Cheers, Nig.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=eOH15_pqWZ4

 

Just getting in before its locked lol. 



#298 Bart

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:56 PM

Football meat pies kangaroos and Holden cars

Just wanted to get that out before this is locked

Why lock it by the way??



#299 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:11 PM

Litre8, want to give me a reason why this thread needs to be shut down...  Jeeeesuz  this is still Australia isn't it,,  free speach and all.....  no one has been attacked or victomized, if you don't like the content, feel free not to read it,....  but this is an open forum, and Holden closing down means a lot to some of us, and discussing the pro's & cons of this is just important to some as having the right Oil Cap on there L34 OK, so for those not interested, go back to the shout box and talk crap about fuk all as usual ....  your's truly Ian ..



#300 _ChaosWeaver_

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:21 PM

Where Back .......   B)    One thing I dont understand is the whole large car theme, being Holdens problem....   In 2012 Commodore was the 4th biggest seller in AUS, and that was against all Vehicals, large and small.    While it is true that those figures were down 9%, the Commodore outsold the Cruze (Holden's Smallish mid-sized car).  and in 2012 dispite the GFC, Australian's bought Cars in Record numbers, 1.1 million of them, a jump of more than 10% form 2011, so i doubt whether lack of money, or the GFC is the reason Car Manufacturing in this Country is in trouble.   And if you look at the figures posted, there are quite a few very large vehicles being sold by all the Manufacture's.  And in the CAR sales section, the Commodore was only outsold by Mazda 3 and Corolla, Commodore outsold all others, little CAR's included..  The Commodore is a big car for sure, but for anyone who wants a big safe, fast reliable car like a Commodore Station Wagon, it is perfect, A Large or Mid sized 4x4 is not always everyone pick for various reasons (some of them being Safety, as 4x4's with Higher Center of gravity & narrow wheel track, tend to tip over fairly easily) or cost.  Salesmen have been traveling this country in Holden & Falcon Station Wagons for years because of there size...   The thing I hear all the time is, " It's just a Holden"  people these days are all about perceived image,  and a European Car for some,  if not most is a measure of success..  and to those people size is important, and prestige and BRAND.  If we are looking for what has been the cause of Holden's demise, i genuenly believe size  has less to do with it, that other Management & Marketing issue's.  

 

Top ten cars

1. Mazda3 - 44,128

2. Toyota Corolla - 38,799

3. Holden Commodore - 30,532

4. Holden Cruze - 29,161

5. Hyundai i30 - 28,348

6. Toyota Camry - 27,230

7. Toyota Yaris - 18,808

8. Ford Focus - 18,586

9. Mazda2 - 17,574

10. Volkswagen Golf - 17,289

 

Check the rest of the figures here:

 

http://news.drive.co...0104-2c83p.html






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