642 replies to this topic

[Ice]

Litre8, want to give me a reason why this thread needs to be shut down...  Jeeeesuz  this is still Australia isn't it,,  free speach and all.....  no one has been attacked or victomized, if you don't like the content, feel free not to read it,....  but this is an open forum, and Holden closing down means a lot to some of us, and discussing the pro's & cons of this is just important to some as having the right Oil Cap on there L34 OK, so for those not interested, go back to the shout box and talk crap about fuk all as usual ....  your's truly Ian ..

Im guessing your a labour voter ian

And you have been on theshout box many times talking crap

[Litre8]

Ian I was expressing my opinion, just like all others in this thread, that's part of free speech right?.

[Ice]

Ian libs have been in power for 3 months and you think in that time we can fix all the mistakes labour made cmon seriously to get this great country back on top the goverment is going to get tuff and thats what people dont like boo hoo suck it up people
and im the last person you want to lock horns with about the unions
i have been self employed most of my life ( my choice ) and they did jack shit for me even when i was on wages for a while
all i know is all the unions reps driving brand new cars and on good $$$$ most payed by union fees
i hate unions with a passion.

[sibhs]

I'm on your side Gene, unions have done nothing for this country. Plenty for the workers but at the detriment of the big picture. Marty. Ps. Lawyers are right up there with the unions.

[WhiteA9XS]

 This reminds me of the " what is a Bathurst 73"  thread .  

[MARKL]

...The thing I hear all the time is, " It's just a Holden"  people these days are all about perceived image,  and a European Car for some,  if not most is a measure of success..  and to those people size is important, and prestige and BRAND.  If we are looking for what has been the cause of Holden's demise, i genuenly believe size  has less to do with it, that other Management & Marketing issue's.  

 

It is an interesting point - I think the move to surrounding the Commodore with cheap shit Daewoo's has undoubtedly had a negative effect on the perception of Commodore - the old line up of euro Barina/Astra/Vectra and Commodore was much more consistent and positively reinforced each others place in the market place than the Korean Barina/Cruz/Epica and Commodore. In relative terms the VE/VF is a superior car to the VT/VX but if you surround yourself with Turkeys...in many ways the rest of the Holden range has been a push down market.

 

How do you sell your engineering credentials when you have a fwd car with a transverse straight six sitting in your showroom?

[micklx]

In reply to the comments that suggest Holden have the wrong car for the market and that is why they don't sell enough,

 

We need to go back to the days when the VE was being designed. Back to the early 2000s, when VT11s and VXs were selling well here and the WH was kicking goals both here and in the middle east. Our fleets were still being incentivised to drive locally built cars. V8 Supercars was hugely popular and sales of SS's and XR8s were making up a big percentage of sales on the back of this. The Monaro which Holden had not even planned for ended up not only getting built, but in bigger numbers than initially planned for including exports to middle east, US and a few to the UK. 

 

So Holden set about designing the VE. Exports were a major consideration, the WM Statesman was released almost at the same time as the VE at the expense of the Wagon unlike the VQ and WH which both came a couple of years after the sedan. GM had flagged Holden as their RWD Engineering centre for the world - proof of this is they let the Camaro be engineered in Australia.

 

So the VE and WM get released, then shortly after - DISASTER !!! We have the GFC.

In order to survive Pontiac goes, which ends VE exports to America, the middle east sales almost dry up due to I think our strong Aust $, and as the VE model ages the local sales drop off.

I'm not sure that a different car would have changed this. If more fleets bought local maybe that would have helped I don't know. But I believe it is a case of circumstances not the wrong car. I've had a few VE's and driven dozens of them. They are a great car. I've driven with overloaded trailers, high speeds (not on public roads) and they handle great.

A small car or an SUV would have been just one more small car or SUV in the marketplace. What Australia needs is one car that can do many jobs and Holden and Ford both offer that. A small change to tarrifs (maybe 5%) might have given Holden and Ford the breathing space they need to continue our great heritage of designing, engineering and building cars here.

[yel327]

Mick, great points, and I think you are correct that it is circumstance that has made VE/F and FG the wrong cars, albeit good cars. Doesn't change the fact though that they now are the wrong car for the market. I'd be happy if Ford, Holden and Toyota all got together and built 4 x cars with 3 x engines, three of the cars they already have:

 

Statesman with GM V8 and Ford 6.

Territory with GM V8, Ford 6 and the diesel it has now.

Ute as per the curent Falcon with GM V8, Ford 6 and the current Falcon's diesel.

Camry/Aurion size car with rear drive and V8, 6cyl and 4cyl diesel. 

 

And continue to sell:

 

The Ranger but offer it with the GM V8 and maybe the Ford 6 if it'd fit, alongside the diesel.

And the Corolla as a Toyota. Forget the imported GM and Ford small stuff.

 

I think the Aussie market is big enough to sustain those cars built by a joint venture.

 

Pipe dreams I know.

[crabba67]

yes,where is the thread "what is a 73 bathurst"  so the truth can be revealed!

 This reminds me of the " what is a Bathurst 73"  thread .  

Edited by crabba67, 15 December 2013 - 08:08 PM.

[xu2308]

On the Bright side of this, if there is one, I Hope Rare Spares become a Mega Big Company making parts for all the Aussie Built Holden's and Ford's to keep on keeping on, screw the imports

Edited by xu2308, 15 December 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[REDA9X]

Allan, you pushing the Rare Spares thing comes second only to you pushing the V8 XU1 thing. Rares get most of their stuff made in China anyway, so it does nothing for jobs here.

[xu2308]

they have stores in OZ, so jobs, and pushing the V8 LJ thing is trying to convert the non believers that they were not destroyed mick

Edited by xu2308, 15 December 2013 - 09:41 PM.

[REDA9X]

And Holden will still exist in Aus, just wont manufacture here or sell anything we want to buy

[TerrA LX]

All over red rover, thanx for the HQ, the panelvan and the hatchback.

[S pack]

I think another part of the picture is Commodores and Falcons have lost a lot of their relevance with the Aussie public with the V8 racing category we have now.

Long gone are the days of 'win on Sunday sell on Monday'. 

[Ice]

I think another part of the picture is Commodores and Falcons have lost a lot of their relevance with the Aussie public with the V8 racing category we have now.
Long gone are the days of 'win on Sunday sell on Monday'. 

Bloody hell dave thats bullshits dont even bring that into coz its got frOck all to do with holden going down

[Ice]

Gee col you dont have to keep bangin on about it we know bud

[TerrA LX]

Introducing the new front wheel drive commodore, made in China...

[Ice]

I doubt it very much tezza