642 replies to this topic

[TerrA LX]

I doubt it very much tezza

You need to do a bit more homework mate.

[Ice]

Col you say that if holden had changed there ideas on building smaller cars in Australia that holden would not of gone down i beg to differ because nobody knows for sure that even if they did change There is no guarantee that there sales would have changed
your just speculating

[Ice]

You need to do a bit more homework mate.

Ok so it will be made in china big frOckin deal i wont be buying one

[TerrA LX]

And it will be a re-bagged Buick design 4cyl

[Ice]

And it will be a re-bagged Buick design 4cyl

And you forgot one thing not many people are going to buy them what the frOck is holden thinkin ffs

[dattoman]

Take a look in your driveways gentlemen

Why did you buy that imported thing you drive every day ?

Was it lack of local choice... was it more features for less money ?

 

We all contribute to the world market and the way companies thrive and die within it

Until we start to support our own economy and not the imported one we are doomed

[Ice]

Are no the new commodore will be built in china bud

Google is your friend

[TerrA LX]

I am still trying to find any other company in the world even in recent history that has a business model like Holden to see how they are doing in comparison?

BMW???

[RallyRed]

many reasons...but Dattoman make a point that shouldnt be lost....

[yel327]

Take a look in your driveways gentlemen
Why did you buy that imported thing you drive every day ?
Was it lack of local choice... was it more features for less money ?

We all contribute to the world market and the way companies thrive and die within it
Until we start to support our own economy and not the imported one we are doomed

You are right Datto. I'm a big advocate for buying Aussie, I look at every product I buy at the supermarket and always pay more for Aussie made especially food. But sometimes what you want/need isn't made here or what is being sold is cr@p. Our last cars were a V2 CV8 and a VZ Cross8. Now we have Toyotas (Lexus RX350 and SR5 Hilux). Holden or Ford do not make or sell anything close to either. I don't need a twin cab 4x4 anymore so next year i'll replace the Hilux with a Falcon ute before those are gone.

[hanra]

China town Commodore?

http://www.news.com....2-1226783057648

[Dr Terry]

For those who keep pushing the line that the Commodore was the wrong car to build here because of its size, I have a simple question for you. What car could you build here & make a profit ? Given no tariffs, high $A exchange rate, highest factory wages in the world & a carbon tax (that nobody else pays).

 

One of the best kept secrets of the car industry is that it costs not much more to build a $35,000 car, than it does to build a similarly equipped $25,000 car. It's just that a larger car 'looks' to be more for your money, so the retail margin is better (read profitable). Why do you think Toyota shifted Corolla manufacture off shore so long ago, to concentrate on the Camry/Aurion ? The only reason Cruze was built here was to keep faith with one of the Govt. agreements in order to get the subsidy $$$ to pay the wages. You don't think that Holden make a profit making a 4-cyl car here if Japanese manufacturers have to resort to building their small cars in Thailand, do you ? You don't see Ford building lots of Focus & Fiesta cars here either.

 

You don't need a crystal ball to see Toyota shutting up shop. The cars they make are not even in the Top 10 (unlike Holden's 2 cars). Their only lifeline is their exports. Given that Camrys are built in 7 other countries (most likely at a profit) then why bother ? They could import Camrys & Aurions at the drop of a hat.

 

Someone on here pushes the BMW 3-series, their volume seller. BMW gets these made in places like South Africa, & SE Asia, so they can compete against other smaller 4 & 6 cylinder cars, while the lower volume, higher margin vehicles (5 & 7 series) get built in the 'father-land'.

 

When you drive thru Sydney, the streets a swarming with 4-cyl cars, like, Barina, Corolla, Jazz, Mazda 2/3, Kia, Hyundai etc. & also smaller SUVs, like Rav4, Forester, X-Trail, Tucson, Tiguan, Escape, Tribute, CRVs etc. This is where the volume is. The market these cars sell into, is so competitive & fragmented that nobody is making much margin at all. How would an Aussie-built Holden fare with all the extra Aussie on-costs ?

 

They could try building a large 4WD, Landcruiser, Patrol, Pajero style, but this market has tanked more than the large sedan market.

 

What was GM to do ? They had both hands tied & the unions were bashing them at the same time, it doesn't get much worse does it ?

 

Dr Terry

[N/A-PWR]

Hi Dr Terry,

Great master of points which I see putting all into one car to be made.

 

An  all wheel drive, slightly jacked up, V8 XU2 Torana

[N/A-PWR]

or the GTR-X would be cool

[yel327]

Very good question Terry. And the answer is probably the same as GM and Ford's solution.
Point remains for me though, I wanted to buy a Holden product for myself and my wife, but they did not build or even sell suitable cars for us. The Hilux is a tough criteria and no manufacturer sells a dual cab leaf sprung rear ute with a decent engine and transmission apart from Toyota. My needs have now changed and when the lease is up next year i'll be happy and proud to have an Aussie made XR6 ute.
I did look at a 6cyl Territory but there was no 5 seater and it was slightly too big. The only other comparable cars available were way overpriced BMW and Audis, and the top spec Kluger was also not a 5 seater. Everything else were grossly underpowered. Lexus RX350 was way overpriced too but when we got offered an 11 month old demo for half new price it was a done deal.

[Dr Terry]

LXSS350 you are missing the point.

1. Yes, bigger car = higher margins = more profits.

2. It wasn't Holden's 'business model', it was GM's plan to develop & manufacture their Zeta RWD platform in Australia, for all global markets, because of our expertise in this type of car. It would've been pointless getting us to design & build a low cost/low margin FWD shopping trolley or an SUV against the Asian competition, we've had next to no experience with those.

3. Several unforeseen things conspired against that plan. The artificially high $A, The GFC causing several things to go awry, Pontiac closure, wages out of control (not going down like everyone else in the world) & the fall off in demand for their large car (both here & overseas - principally due to the GFC). You seem to dwell on the fall off in demand, when in fact it's a combination of all 5, especially the 2nd, 3rd & 4th items. Both of Holden's local products were consistently in the Top 5 sellers (unlike Ford or Toyota), even if they were no. 1 & 2 Holden were still not profitable.

4. You are losing credibility by denigrating the Commodore by calling it a dunny or a whale. It still happens to be one of the best RWD cars (of any size) in the world, especially at its price point, Australians should be proud of it.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Take the fleet and business sales out of dunnys and its even worse.

Fleet & business sales have been the backbone of Holden's existence since 1917.

 

Dr Terry 

[Ice]

LXSS350 you are missing the point.
1. Yes, bigger car = higher margins = more profits.
2. It wasn't Holden's 'business model', it was GM's plan to develop & manufacture their Zeta RWD platform in Australia, for all global markets, because of our expertise in this type of car. It would've been pointless getting us to design & build a low cost/low margin FWD shopping trolley or an SUV against the Asian competition, we've had next to no experience with those.
3. Several unforeseen things conspired against that plan. The artificially high $A, The GFC causing several things to go awry, Pontiac closure, wages out of control (not going down like everyone else in the world) & the fall off in demand for their large car (both here & overseas - principally due to the GFC). You seem to dwell on the fall off in demand, when in fact it's a combination of all 5, especially the 2nd, 3rd & 4th items. Both of Holden's local products were consistently in the Top 5 sellers (unlike Ford or Toyota), even if they were no. 1 & 2 Holden were still not profitable.
4. You are losing credibility by denigrating the Commodore by calling it a dunny or a whale. It still happens to be one of the best RWD cars (of any size) in the world, especially at its price point, Australians should be proud of it.
Dr Terry

And once again Dr Terry has nailed it again
And im proud to have owned a commodore and my dunny is in my house col cant see any wheels on either