642 replies to this topic

[MARKL]

Out of context and ignoring some key facts, in 86 Holden went broke with debts of $700+million - debts built up when local manufacturers were guaranteed 80% of the market and tariffs of 57.5%. GM bailed them out, the company was restructured into two entities whilst the Australian manufacturing sector was re-engineered from the ground up - there were still tarrifs and plan to lower them but there were also carrots in the system that credited companies for exports. Be absolutely clear Holden would have ceased to exist in 86/87 without these changes. FFS I hate being old.

Edited by MARKL, 19 December 2013 - 09:25 PM.

[Bart]

Yes but did you read the bit on "Labor party is still heavily wedded to unions preventing industrial relations flexability"
The unionised car industry with all of its feather-bedded practices grew up behind a wall of protection. When that system was swept away, it was on the road to extinction unless the industry got its work practices to international standards. It made some improvements.

An incredibly ignorant article that ignore the fundamental restructuring of the Australian economy that occurred under Hawke and Keating. With Button they produced a plan for Australian manufacturing that revitalised the sector and produced an internationally competitive manufacturing sector for the first time. In the 70's and early 80's the concept of Holden or Ford exporting Commodore or Falcon to the US was not even a pipe dream let alone the idea that an American icon such as Camaro would be engineered here.
 
The issue was subsequent governments for not following through and updating the plan but instead riding the easy coat tails of the mining boom.

[MARKL]

drivel...When that system was swept away, it was on the road to extinction unless the industry got its work practices to international standards....drivel

 

No, there was a plan, the plan worked. The difference between 86 and 96 for the Aus car manufacturing capability and capacity was an incredible turn around and that continued to improve into the early 2000's but then we rode the easy money of the mining boom, liked a rising dollar and cheap Asian made goods and didn't update the plan for the manufacturing sector...now we are paying the price. Like it or not the Australian economy works better overall at $1Aus to 60-70c US. If that happened we would still have a manufacturing sector. When economists (lower than lawyers) talk about a two speed economy, well this is the result...and a weaker economy overall.

[Bart]

Joe Thompson made allot of sense in the Quantum interview. Im no union man at all but he made sense

[Bart]

It strange and funny, you talk about NWO evil bastards but don't make that connection with Gillard, Rudd and Bob Brown. It really disturbs me how you haven mentioned that. Rudd and Brown spoke of NWO and One world governments. Did you miss that? Its ok to go on about Murdock etc, you're probably right but how do you miss Gillard, Rudd and Brown??
Sorry off topic but it is related when there are politicians wanting to deindustrialise the country.

And Tony Abbottt bends over for the most evil bastards on the planet.
 
 
Unfortunately there's not much of a choice there really.

[Ice]

Ive said this before and i,ll say it again every time labour and the unions has been in power over the last 35 years the country has gone to shit its a fact
but it all falls on deaf ears so now we have to suffer for all there mistakes and they have made some big blunders people have died
and if you think labour has ever done something good in this country your seriously deluded
Sorry dont want to turn it into a political thread

[Bart]

I didn't say you said you support them but you really should mention their support and indeed push for world government and NWO. You say Rudd unfortunately lost but he pushes what you seem to be against. The NWO. Bush senior also comes to mind mentioning NWO, Clinton also. These guys push for lower tariffs, decrease industrialised countries protection as Joe Thompson the union bloke mentioned. (Protection that is)
We currently have previous Labor PM's helping push the mass sale of Australian farm land to foreign countries. There are connections to be made here.

[Rockoz]

Should the government keep propping up an industry that was in its death throes anyway?

Delaying the inevitable.

GM would have been happy to take handouts right to the end.

An end which they have obviously been planning for a while.

The government called their bluff and saved us truckloads.

But they have also provided money to retrain those losing their jobs.

These people have 3 years notice. They will get redundancy packages. They will get access to retraining.

Ive never been let go from a job with such good terms.

[Bart]

I agree. Talk about "Looked after"
But tariffs are needed at some level, not the 50% odd they used to be but some is needed.

Should the government keep propping up an industry that was in its death throes anyway?
Delaying the inevitable.
GM would have been happy to take handouts right to the end.
An end which they have obviously been planning for a while.
The government called their bluff and saved us truckloads.
But they have also provided money to retrain those losing their jobs.
These people have 3 years notice. They will get redundancy packages. They will get access to retraining.
Ive never been let go from a job with such good terms.

Edited by Bart, 19 December 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[Rockoz]

If we were in a position to produce and export a lot of vehicles we could do what the swedes did in the 80s.

They exported their unemployment. Lots of people thought they exported Volvos. But it was unemployment.

Their government heavily subsidised the auto industry. Trucks in particular. they were marketed at a price that was difficult for anyone to knock back.

Those that bought Volvo trucks over the american trucks virtually locked themselves into buying Volvo as replacements as well.

But most didnt mind because they werent a bad rig.

The result was low unemployment rates in Sweden and a growing presence of Volvos worldwide.

Pretty sure that now there isnt such a huge price difference to the american offerings as there once was.

Unfortunately due to our size we are unable to even contemplate something like that.

 

Dont get me wrong. Im not happy that these people are losing their jobs.

But did the workers at say Newcastle Steel Works get that much notice?

[Bart]

Oh and get rid of STUPID free trade agreements.
And if you want to look up something on the current agenda, look into TPP. Trans Pacific Partnership. Wouldn't surprise me if Holden factored this in their decision to close up! GTR, TPP would be something you would be interested in reading. It is scary. Imagine an over seas corporation suing the Australian Government *Us tax payers) state or federal simply because a law change here can/could affect profit and or investment of an over seas corporation (Invested here). This I say may have been factored in Holdens decisions in terms of business confidence.

Edited by Bart, 19 December 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[StephenSLR]

Didn't some chick sing a song about..........  " Isn't it Ironic "

 

I remember that song, it was ironic she sang a song about irony and didn't know the meaning of it. lol. The song had many examples of misfortune, not irony.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 20 December 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[Bart]

John Howard wasted it?? You're kidding

Bingo.........  This in my mind is spot on.   Not only did we ride and waste all the money from the biggest Mining resource Boom anywhere in the World (Thanks John Howard) they also tried to support the Economy by driving a Housing Boom, (First Home Buyer's Grants ect.)  which in turn drove House prices up, first starting in Sydney, and eventually spreading to the rest of Australia, and along with that Pay Rises and increased Production Costs rose across the board, Both of those choices our Governments made are finite, the Mining Boom will eventually come too an end, the Housing Boom has almost run it's race now, as most First Home Buyers can no longer afford to purchase a house..   Some people are talking about cutting subsidies, most people who run their own Business or Rent a house out, receive subsides from all us Tax Payers,  in the form of Negative Gearing, this allows them to right a loss off against their Income.  Subsidies are always going to be needed to support Industries that are crucial for Australia's long term future.... We all lost something that is probably irreplaceable,  and the roll on effect of this will be felt for years.......  it's a bit hard to blame current Governments (both Labor & Liberal) for what happened almost 30 years ago, but their actions of a week or so ago,  will be judged....  and I wounder what that judgement will be.....

Edited by Bart, 20 December 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Rockoz]

ChaosWeaver

Do tell me of the subsidies available to me as a small business operator.

I would be very interested where I an get some free money to help my business.

[Bart]

We're getting off topic but wow 

[Bart]

Not the failed pinks batts, $900 cheques, failed BER and more, i could go on but its off topic.

Middle class welfare is a waste but was a continuation from previous govs, not a good excuse i know it is bad. I read all sorts of news mainly 2gb, often they talk about middle class welfare and other huge wastes.

[Rockoz]

I  really do pity the typical labor voter unionist type person.

They very rarely see beyond what they wish to see.

And usually want to be given something for nothing rather than work for it.

They often have a belief that because someone has had the drive to get motivated and start their own business, that they are immediately rich.

And they generally believe that the boss owes them a favour for bothering to turn up for work.

 

Now perhaps if the average worker was different to this Holden may possibly have had a chance.