This topic is lockedWeekly Wages from 1970 to 1984:-
http://www.tradingec...australia/wages
so $60 a week x 52 = $3120
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#526
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:59 AM
#527
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:18 AM
The Jones/Bolt argument is a bit of a side issue. They are both very polarising characters, so you either like them or loath them. You might disagree with them or you might agree with them. As it happens a lot of people do agree with their stance on many topics & they rate gangbusters.
One of luxuries of living in Australia, is that it is a free country. If you don't like them or don't agree with them, don't listen to them.
Dr Terry
Approximately one third of adults can be hypnotised and two thirds cannot.
Guess which ones are Jones and Bolt's target audience ?
#528
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:29 AM
Averages are a terrible measurement. I mean the current average adult wage in Australia is what ? I googled it & it's $77,220 or $1485 per week gross. How many wage earners here earn anywhere near this amount of cash (unless you're in the govt. or the mining industry). And remember this is an AVERAGE.
Here's how averages work. If you & 9 of your mates earn $50,000 each per year & the general manager of your local municipal council earns $500,000 per year (check it out, that's what they get !!) then the resulting AVERAGE wages of those 10 people is $100,000 per year, simple.
Wages also depend very much on what industry you work in & at what level.
I was being a bit cheeky with my comment, but I was only a 3rd trainee electrical engineer in 1970 & was paid just under $40 per week gross, so yes I was earning less than $2,000 per year.
My point was than inflation in the 70s was out of control. To put this in a Torana context, when the LH Torana was released in April 74, an S 6-cyl cost $3205 & an SL/R5000 was $4527. Less than 1 year later (Feb 75) Holden released the G-Pak marketing special at $3881. Less than 9 months after that (Nov 75) the 2nd release of the G-Pak cost $5058, more than the full hog SL/R5000 the year before.
Dr Terry
Here's how averages work. If you & 9 of your mates earn $50,000 each per year & the general manager of your local municipal council earns $500,000 per year (check it out, that's what they get !!) then the resulting AVERAGE wages of those 10 people is $100,000 per year, simple.
Wages also depend very much on what industry you work in & at what level.
I was being a bit cheeky with my comment, but I was only a 3rd trainee electrical engineer in 1970 & was paid just under $40 per week gross, so yes I was earning less than $2,000 per year.
My point was than inflation in the 70s was out of control. To put this in a Torana context, when the LH Torana was released in April 74, an S 6-cyl cost $3205 & an SL/R5000 was $4527. Less than 1 year later (Feb 75) Holden released the G-Pak marketing special at $3881. Less than 9 months after that (Nov 75) the 2nd release of the G-Pak cost $5058, more than the full hog SL/R5000 the year before.
Dr Terry
#529
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:48 AM
Thank-you Dr Terry for the Averages,
So there are all types of earners in a 20 Million Population. Dave I
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:55 AM
My Mum was a University Cashier
and I was collecting Coke bottles for 10 cents cash back
from the sides of roads
#531
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:59 AM
Approximately one third of adults can be hypnotised and two thirds cannot.
Guess which ones are Jones and Bolt's target audience ?
Probably about the same proportion 'hypnotised' by the Gay Bee Cee.
Dr Terry
Thank-you Dr Terry for the Averages,
So there are all types of earners in a 20 Million Population. Dave I
We have less full-time wage earners (numerically not %) now than we did 40 years ago.
Dr Terry
#532
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:03 AM
My second car was a LC GTR and I payed $1400 for it in 1981 and I was earning $164 a fortnight
#533
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:11 AM
Sorry Dr Terry, I miss read this as (the annual gross income) instead of yours.
Inflation might have had an influence on that.
$2,000 was more than my annual gross income in 1970.
Dr Terry
#534
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:18 AM
Thats because Companies & Bosses used to be happy to make good money in the good times, and hang on to their skilled workforce through the bad times. Now Companies are run by The Accountants, who only care about the Forecasts or Bottom line, and they are very quik to cut Full Time Workers to meet these Targets.. These workers are then replaced by Casual Workers, who can be Laid-off at an hour's notice. Then add to this Share Holders who are money greedy $%^&*"S , that care about nothing but profits & dividends.. and Bingo less Full Time Wage Earners............
We have less full-time wage earners (numerically not %) now than we did 40 years ago.
Dr Terry
#535
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:24 AM
So I guess this means there will be no remake of a torana hay guys
Or when and if GMH mooves to china there will be a cheep copy hay
Taiwanese XU1s or Taiwanese SLRs
Taiwanese HOLDENS 
#536
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 11:43 AM
Probably about the same proportion 'hypnotised' by the Gay Bee Cee.
Dr Terry
I'll leave it for someone else to defend ABC RN. I can rarely bear to listen to it these days. It was incredibly biased towards Abbott in the last election. It is now just controlled opposition, corrupted by cronyism and the propaganda squads.
But I do find your 'Gay Bee Cee' comment hilarious in this context.
You do know Jones is a notorious dunny hanger ?
#537
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:31 PM
You do know Jones is a notorious dunny hanger ?
Absolutely, doesn't everyone know that.
Dr Terry
#538
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:34 PM
But I do find your 'Gay Bee Cee' comment hilarious in this context.
It's been known under that moniker in Sydney for last 2 decades. After all isn't Sydney the Gay capital of the world ?
Dr Terry
#539
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 02:41 PM
Thats because Companies & Bosses used to be happy to make good money in the good times, and hang on to their skilled workforce through the bad times. Now Companies are run by The Accountants, who only care about the Forecasts or Bottom line, and they are very quik to cut Full Time Workers to meet these Targets.. These workers are then replaced by Casual Workers, who can be Laid-off at an hour's notice. Then add to this Share Holders who are money greedy $%^&*"S , that care about nothing but profits & dividends.. and Bingo less Full Time Wage Earners............
We have less full-time wage earners (numerically not %) now than we did 40 years ago.
Dr Terry
There are a lot of family run small business's that would prefer to hold onto the skilled full timers, they are known quantities and good skilled labour can be hard to come by at times. I don't need an accountant to tell me that I'm better off keeping my blokes who have good skills and are the basis of keeping my business in business.
#540
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 02:53 PM
Eye Peeler, I think if you read it again, I'm saying Large Company's now tend to be more run by the Accountants within the company, who will advise Management that to meet forecasted targets they need to be able to cut employees, and to do this easily they need to have Casual Employees as they can be "Let Go" with an hours notice... and i can tell you, that while i have always been lucky enough to be Permanently Employed at most of my jobs, I have seen many good Tradesmen let go at 2.30 pm, so they could use every last bit out of them... I am in no way saying "You need an Accountant to tell you that you are better of keeping your blokes" but i'm glad to hear you try to keep your skilled labor ... cheers Ian
#541
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Posted 21 December 2013 - 04:09 PM
The crux of your argument is that holden isn't building a product that satisfies the local customer base.
Well obviously.
Proof is in the doors of holden being closed and numbers that for a decade have fallen through the floor. The issue is that bloody ludicrously big sedans are HATED by the market, and even the stupid big fraud suffered the same fate. You can't have an 80's business model in 2013 and fraud and holden both know they totally made a f/u.
Big Sedans = BIG FLOP. All we have here is brand supporters and people who like or have brought big overweight fat ugly plastic taxis.
Again even greater proof that the dunnydore is not a wanted package is when the worlds biggest car market 13x our market (and holdens parent company) has to wipe off an extra $10k that Australians would have to pay, yet after the massive discount all they think the market will buy is 2000 units per years.
Yet that is considered by GM to be a success for that niche dunny car. Let's remember this is Holdens World Class Local/Export Car. This is Holdens answer to producing a volume car and one they spent mega dollars of taxpayers money on developing.
Boy they are hot on the money with a big volume seller with this vf dunny.
Remember this is a $44k car not the $95k GTS.
Lets hear some more excuses why the camaro which is a very very very niche car is wanted more than the cheap so called world class dunny???
I know why do you?
Big Sedan = BIG FLOP.
Big 4x4 = Big sales
nowaynicko, on 21 Dec 2013 - 07:17, said:
It reads like you haven't or didn't understand it.
Oh sales dribble or plain words mean zip to me, my opinion is number based truth, it has nothing to do with what someone says they will or have done. Did you really expect holden to hold a press conference and ask for forgiveness on their failed business model? Words are very very cheap (watch as a politicians lips move - yet another lie) but you can't hide the numbers, facts, figures and time lines.
Numbers in car manufacturing clearly show the reality. The car industry doesn't move on a dime, its a process which is why they spend so much attention on history and the numbers.
Edited by LXSS350, 21 December 2013 - 04:17 PM.
#543
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:57 AM
Exclusive
The top-of-the-line Holden Caprice was recommended by the Attorney-General's Department in 2012 as the preferred option for a fleet of nine specialised blast-proof VIP vehicles to be used by the Prime Minister and other dignitaries, according to confidential government documents.
The revelation appears to contradict reported Abbott government sources as saying Holden had not even submitted a bid in the tender because the car-maker simply ''was not interested''.
Holden viewed that claim, which appeared in a News Corp newspaper on Wednesday, just hours before the US-owned car maker announced its withdrawal, as part of a deliberate negative backgrounding campaign by Coalition ministers to make Holden look uncommitted to Australia.
The report also cited government sources revealing the multimillion-dollar contract to replace the ageing fleet of Caprices, was about to be filled with ''off-the-shelf BMW High Security 7-Series vehicles'', worth $525,000 each.
Part of a confidential ministerial brief from the Attorney-General's Department to then Attorney-General Nicola Roxon has been shown to Fairfax Media.
Dated 12-12-12, and headed ''Protected Vehicle Acquisition - an update on progress'', its summary advised Ms Roxon that after a lengthy evaluation process through 2012, a bid by BAE Systems in conjunction with Holden was successful - outpointing several European options.
It said the successful bidder had been chosen from a shortlist of four, which also included two German automotive manufacturers - Audi and Mercedes-Benz - and another Holden joint bid by a company called Integrated Design and Engineering Solutions. BMW, however, was not mentioned and it is understood from the documentation that the Bavaria-based auto giant had not even been shortlisted.
It remains unclear why the Holden-BAE recommendation was not acted on, but a government insider from the time said the then-prime minister Julia Gillard had been concerned about negative publicity if Labor was seen to be spending $7 million of taxpayers' money on limousines in the lead-up to the election. The internal departmental documents from December 2012 raise questions as to how BMW came to be considered given it was not shortlisted and was not the successful bidder.
The opposition, which on Thursday moved unsuccessfully to censure Prime Minister Tony Abbott after he revealed he had not met with Holden in the lead-up to its Wednesday decision, said the claim Holden had not wanted to supply the cars was part of a pattern of behaviour designed to discredit GM Holden because the government believed it was leaving Australia.
''These extraordinary events give every indication the government pursued a vendetta against Holden,'' shadow industry minister Kim Carr said. ''What we have here is a proper tender process being run and won, legitimately, by a BAE-GM Holden consortia. Yet suddenly, in the midst of a concerted backgrounding campaign against Holden by senior government ministers, BMW emerges with a contract.''
That claim had been refuted by a spokeswoman for the Minister for Justice Michael Keenan, who said the tender for the vehicles remained open.
Senator Carr described the assertion Holden was not capable of meeting the standards required as ''patently untrue''
from this article -
http://m.smh.com.au/...1212-2zabq.html
Polish that turd.
.
Edited by GTR - U9X, 22 December 2013 - 11:02 AM.
#544
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:12 PM
I think people are missing the whole point. Easy to forget that rather than being just a charity recipient ...... Holden is actually a commercial business. As a business it has to make a profit but of course it has zero control on Interest Rates, Exchange Rates, Inflation etc etc. You just have to live with the situation and that's all got to be part of your contingencies which make-up your full business plan. Many here have nfi about running a business (especially a big business) so all this blame on outside influences and market forces are just missing what you can control.
Before you worry about anything else you clean and control your own house. This is what ever single commentator has ignored and yet its the ONE MASSIVE correction that Holden could have made and controlled.
Now, that's not to say whatever their choice was, that these num nuts would have made the correct choice in a volume package? Because its clear these flee brains lost complete touch with market reality and what people want and do buy.
What Holden is saying by our market has become a very Fragmented Market is that:
The market has now been offered a far greater variety of vehicles (in 2013). So our market share of the 1 million vehicle pa sold has dropped. Unfortunately with this greater variety and choice ...... Australians are now not limited to our Old One Trick Pony and Australians will now not just blindly accept our cheap slapped together plastic cr#p dunnydore that we have served up to the local market for decades.
Holden Statement:
With Third world countries now entering the Australian car market they are really showing up the flaws in our dunnydore which can no longer be ignored and put us in the position we are in.
#545
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 03:11 PM
LXSS350
Keep reading your posts and while you make some good points you still do not seem to understand something that has been repeated.
Holden is part of GM worldwide.
GM decided Holden was to develop the RWD platform.
As such the Commodore was the result.
Why did Holden get the job. Cause they were good at it.
Had GM assigned Holden a different platform then the results would have been different no doubt.
Holden was dealt a hand and had to play with what they had.
GM would have kept accepting handouts and still closed shop here. Tony did the right thing, called their bluff and saved the taxpayer some money.
#546
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 07:53 PM
I think people are missing the whole point.
You've been missing the point for 22 pages. 
#547
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 07:54 PM
LXSS350
Keep reading your posts and while you make some good points you still do not seem to understand something that has been repeated.
Holden is part of GM worldwide.
GM decided Holden was to develop the RWD platform.
As such the Commodore was the result.
Why did Holden get the job. Cause they were good at it.
Had GM assigned Holden a different platform then the results would have been different no doubt.
Holden was dealt a hand and had to play with what they had.
GM would have kept accepting handouts and still closed shop here. Tony did the right thing, called their bluff and saved the taxpayer some money.
Your wasting your time Rockoz, he's a "Business Anal-ist" that cant drive large cars .. Haha the best thing about small cars, is that it keeps all the FAG"S out of Large cars............. 
Ha there now I said it .... sorry Datto ... I promise i wont do it again ..
Edited by ChaosWeaver, 22 December 2013 - 07:57 PM.
#548
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:00 PM
The fact is .... although I have no interest in new cars ..... imo its totally crazy that Holden is closing.
Its not my choice of business but hell I still can see a future and still can see profit in the industry (if done right).
GM did NOT force Holden to produce the dunny. That was a Holden only decision because (supposedly but not factually) Holden knows Holden's market.
Just as for their own usa market it was GM's decision to use the zeta for its camaro.
As I said Holden was never going to be able to change the A$ exchange rate, the wages, super etc it paid but they sure as hell could SELL MORE CARS TO TAKE THEM INTO PROFIT.
However to do that one has to remember the customer, as I said its all plain and simple business 101 :
Ice Cream Shop .... it's no bloody good selling just Chocolate Icecream when 90% of people want Vanilla (which you don't sell).
Or a Shoe Shop which has 100% Brown shoes while 98% coming in you shop want Black.
Now if you want to corner the niche market then sure a whole new business plan comes into play.
Actually to show a classic example lets look at zeta in the same sized market (USA) and that alone tells you clearly the right and wrong package in the markets opinion even though they are based on the same platform.and quite similar in pricing and equipment
Camaro = 85,000
Chev SS = 2000
So lets hypothetically forget everything (and obviously forget all reality) and say Holden didn't do the dunny and instead decided to make the camaro (if it didn't exist).
I would take the bull by the horns here and say that Holden wouldn't be closing its manufacturing if it main product was selling 85,000pa.
That's the key you see the whole dunny thing is as good as ti#s on a bull and its wanted even less than that.
Produce a car the market wants not a car you have been regurgitating and one that has been dying for a decade.
Lets face it the USA doesn't like big sedans even less than the Australian market does.
Its actually not hard to understand but like Holden management people can't see past their own shadow. Its not about the zeta platform its about total and utter incompetence of the whole Holden business model.
#549
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:43 PM
I have to agree, while researching another topic, I was fortunate enough to speak to some "Ol' time Holden dealer principals"That was a Holden only decision because (supposedly but not factually) Holden knows Holden's market.
They were forever telling Holden what the market wanted but it fell on deaf/scared ears.
#550
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:39 PM
Well if it is true that they could make it work with the right business model then why don't they ?
It's not as if GM is bankrupt.
I mean why the frOck do we need so much variety in such a small market anyway ?
Australian conditions have just made it ever more unviable to produce cars here.
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