642 replies to this topic

[EunUCh]

So basically, Holden "shit in their own nest" so to speak by ignoring what the car market was doing around them.

 

They dropped the WB Stato luxury  and commercial range to concentrate on the commodore.

 

When the first commodore was released the UC apparently went to the back of the show room floor and the commodores to the front.

Ok,so the UC was not to everyones  likeing and that was the end of the Torana range.

 

They then continued with the commodore range but at the same time a lot more smallish imports were coming into the country and because the commercial

range was dropped those that needed or wanted something in the commercial range had no choice but to buy other breeds.Needless to say these other breeds were

already on the market but now the sales of the other breeds went up.Did Holden respond?,probably not as well as what they should have,they threw in the odd smallish

car but probably didn't do a good enough job of it and concentrated on the commodore.

 

By now the other breeds of smallish cars were getting bigger,did Holden respond?,probably only by making a biggish car bigger and ignoring the fact that by now

the smallish breeds were getting bigger to the point where they now had as much room or more than the mid sized Torana,but they missed the boat and forgot

or didn't care that the Mighty little Torana was and is an Aussie icon in the car world,sure,not everyone had one or wanted one ,try getting a good one now,i think most

people around here know of someone or are themselves are looking.

 

If Holden had have made a mid sized car similar to the Torana range with some not to plastic modern styling and plastic crap and some mod cons similar to what the other breeds were offering at the time when the appearance of most cars was becoming bland and boreing with a range of powerplants then they might have had a good chance.

 

Did everyone want a commodore,astra,camira,barina,corolla.etc.?probably not but what other choice did they have,they could not get a daily driver,family car become sports car or even a ute or 4wd from  Australia so they bought other things.

Don't get me wrong,it is not good that GMH is going offshore,but yeah,its too late now.

I am no xpert,just my thoughts.

[Bart]

The smart ones are the Jones/Bolt audience

The ABC turkeys haven't met with reality yet. But most people grow up eventually. Most people.

Jones has been saying Holden have been making the wrong car for years. I don't need him to tell me that as i look around there are more small to medium cars than Commos.

Approximately one third of adults can be hypnotised and two thirds cannot.

 

 

Guess which ones are Jones and Bolt's target audience ?

[Dr Terry]

Mr LXSS350

 

You've now mentioned this same point now, over & over again, until many people on here have now switched off. We get it, you don’t like Commodore (even though you can’t spell it) & you think GM-H have been making the ‘wrong’ car here for decades. And you think that this was the sole reason for the closure of their plants.

 

Do you remember what happen last time GM-H down-sized to suit market expectations in an economic downturn. They had owned the market with their large family-sized 6-cyl model range since the early 50s. Then, in 1978 they released the smaller VB Commodore, which many at the time thought was a master-stroke. Everything looked rosy, the new Commodore got Car of the Year & was top-seller for the first few years. But then the fuel crisis tapered off & the Falcon took over because it was perceived to be the bigger, better family car. By 1982 the Ford took over as no.1. It took until VN/VP for GM-H to regain that lost ground.

 

You’ve stretched a few numbers here, but let’s go thru them 1 by 1. It is generally accepted the so-called GFC began in 2007 (not 2009). One of the biggest lenders into the sub-prime end of the housing market, New Century Financial, filed for bankruptcy protection in April 2007.

 

Holden was selling huge numbers of Commodores in the late 90s & well into new millennium, some of those years saw their best sales numbers ever, even better than the good old days of the 50s & 60s. When exactly was the writing on the wall, for us all to see ?

 

You mention that the VY was a disaster. How ?? The Commodore back then was Australia’s no. 1 selling car on the local market our biggest single export, bigger than mining. In VY days in particular, it was a very strong seller. GM-H was actually exporting more cars than they sold on the local market.

 

GM-H were enjoying a very strong sales period, with many variants made available, e.g. Adventra, Crewman, One-Tonner all in either 2 or 4WD. The same was planned with VE, but GM (US) was in financial strife. They then bled GM-H dry. There was no money for all these variants & the VE release was delayed from 2005 to 2006. The ute & wagon were delayed even further. Even though GM (US) had planned for the VE to be its global large RWD platform, they cut it off at the knees (financially speaking) before it was released. GM-H had ‘soldier on’ with what was left.

 

You mention that GM (US) didn’t ‘force’ them to make the VE. Force wouldn’t have been necessary, it was their money & their idea, so GM-H would’ve complied as directed.

 

Leaving all of that aside, given their ridiculously high cost of wages  & other overheads, exactly what type of car would you say GM-H should build here, without requiring govt. handouts ?

 

I’m not making excuses for the GM-H factory closure, but to say that it was caused by not building the right car, is a big stretch. What is Toyota’s issue, they’re building the ‘right’ cars here aren’t they ? They’re exporting ship-loads of Camry’s & they are still loosing money big time.

 

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Jones has been saying Holden have been making the wrong car for years. I don't need him to tell me that as i look around there are more small to medium cars than Commos.

That's not the case, Jones' biggest whinge was the unions & their silly wages & conditions.

 

He is a fan of larger cars, he owns an LS430 Lexus, himself.

 

My question remains. What car could GM-H or any of the locals build here & remain viable ??

 

Dr Terry 

[xu2308]

Holden got Lang Lang Priced and up for sale very Quick, makes you wonder they all ready had made there minds up well before they said, and the end of the day, we can bang on why they are gone, the result is the same they are finished making OZ Cars

 

AL

[Bart]

I didnt say size, i dont think he said size but he did say "They need to make a car people want". And yes the Unions absolutely! I like large car myself but i couldnt afford one as a daily driver, i couldnt afford to buy a new commo or run it. Currently driving a Toyota Starlet, cheap as 

 

That's not the case, Jones' biggest whinge was the unions & their silly wages & conditions.

 

He is a fan of larger cars, he owns an LS430 Lexus, himself.

 

My question remains. What car could GM-H or any of the locals build here & remain viable ??

 

Dr Terry 

[Ice]

Im pretty sure i heard the VF commodore got (CAR OF THE YEAR ) but no one is buying them sad really because they are trully a world class car

[Dr Terry]

I think we are all missing the point

who cares what size car they make they will all get smaller as oil runs out

What we should all be bothered about is another icon of Australia is gone

Abbot got his way sell everything so we don't own anything

If we continue to get rid of everything that makes us aussies then we might as well just let the rest of the world come in and take over

Holden gone

food land owned by china

resources mined by overseas companies

vegemite owned by overseas companies

we either stop this or just give it all away

national pride in ourselves and our country

and our flag

who cares what the cost is to keep it owned by Australia

Holden has not been Australian owned since it 'merged' with General Motors to become GM-H in 1931. GM-H is & always has been US owned, not Aussie owned.

 

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Mr LXSS350.

 

You have not responded to my 2 main points.

 

1. What car do you suggest that any Aussie carmaker could build that would not need govt. handouts to survive.

 

2. You still haven't learnt to spell Commodore, which is still the best RWD car (of any size) on the current Aust. market, especially at the price.

 

Dr Terry

 

P.S. Your comments on GM(US) are not based on fact. To get back in the black, post-GFC, GM (US) closed many factories, unloaded countless employees, wound down several car brands & last year made $15B US profit. Guess what their biggest earner is ?? Chev & GM pick-ups !! Just like Chrysler & Ford, this category, like it or lump it, is were the big profit margins are. They sell truck loads of them. Why, because they are cheap to make, & it reflects a very heavy tariff regime unique to the US commercial vehicle market.

[xu2308]

Adam

has to go to the

 

Dunny

[Redzone]

Does mr dunny realise the reason the chev ss is cheaper over there than our vf ss is because of the lovely amount of tax we pay on new cars here compared to the usa...