_Gunmetal LH_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:47 PM
I can't help but wonder if all this would be happening if there was no GM in Holden?
Detroit doesn't want to make cars here anymore. We do. Look at Ford- not a fan, but it's a shame.
I wonder if the Holden name and licensing could be bought? There's going to be some big-ass buildings with manufacturing capability just sitting there, and suppliers ready to provide...
Forum Fixture
Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:20 PM
Lots of people could be blamed, take your pick
- Governments for not setting suitable tariffs to protect key local manufacturing, not buying local wherever possible.
- Holden for not manufacturing a global product, or adapting to produce more market competitive cars
- Everyone who bought an overseas manufactured car and didn't support local jobs
Etc. etc.
_ChaosWeaver_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:30 PM
spot on Lima..... Unions have their faults for sure, but their objective is to try and protect workers conditions & entitlements ... it's not up to them to make a Company viable... anyone old enough to remember what it was like before we had unions will tell you a different story, where the worker had no rights at all.... pretty much a slave to a boss... and as i see it the Unions have had frOck all power to do anything for the last 20 years, so it's a bit hard to just blame them.. I think it's pretty much everything Lima31 stated in his post ... either way it's a sad day for Australia ..
Shit a brick
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:00 PM
Ive said it a million times. Unions union unions and industry don't mix, unions white ant industry. Then stupid fair trade agreements from all politics undercut our industries. Unless you want to work for 10cents an hours.
Carbon tax.
Overpaid workers etc etc
Shit a brick
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:05 PM
Those who say we need unions live in another era. We have industrial relations laws, and award wages. Unions as I can see are all bull shit. But I understand why people want them so much, if a union got me and extra 10 to 20000 per year I would like them too. But no I decided to find my own work without unions I don't expect to get paid more than what im worth, I just wouldn't feel honest about it.
Forum Member
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:26 PM
Tragic, the loss of an Australian icon that will also be the death of an entire industry, maybe even manufacturing in this country. The job losses will extend well past 50,000 when Toyota withdraws and the local component manufacturers are decimated. The social cost will be staggering as areas like Elizabeth becomes Detroit ghost towns; engineers and designers will struggle to find opportunities locally and many will head overseas for work leading to a brain drain and loss of a skill set...the impact on local manufacturing can not be under estimated.
And this is where it gets really scary, Australia's entire manufacturing industry is now at risk. So what you may ask but a diversified economy is a basic Government responsibility, when you have say 'a mining boom' you invest in manufacturing to have a strong diverse economy so you have something else to do when there is a downturn in the mining or other sectors. This is why other countries heavily subsidise their automotive industries. it is high school economics to have a diversified economy.
I find it incredibly strange that we have a government beholden to mining companies, offering subsidies the automotive industry can only dream of yet the mining industry has been in its greatest ever boom? We pride ourselves at how good we are at digging up dirt; we have subsidised the miners but haven't invested in our future? Once the boom is over...wtf do we do then...
What are the wider impacts? This is a far greater issue than stopping a few leaky boats from Indonesia and should have been an area of significant debate before the last election. This is where the contest for ideas should have been 'how do we ensure Australia has a viable manufacturing industry into the future?' 'How do we capitalise on the mining boom for all Australians/re-engineer the economy for after the boom?'. 'WTF would John Button do?'
Edited by MARKL, 11 December 2013 - 07:28 PM.
_ChaosWeaver_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:28 PM
Sorry guys.... i'm no staunch Unionist by any means, but i have worked in the Manufacturing Industry since 1976, and i must say that as a Boilermaker we were anything but over paid... Our only chance of making half decent money was because of some conditions that were fought for and won by workers & Unions long before I came along..... the only reason any of us have good conditions now is because of what previous workers & unions have fought for.... Mining jobs in the 60's and 70's were low paid jobs.. it wasn't Bosses or any Industrial Relations Group that got them a wage inline with the dangers they were working under, it was the workers & the Trade Unions ...... So like me feel very lucky that someone else had already done all the heavy lifting ............
Shit a brick
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:29 PM
Toyota suffering from staff's rampant sickies, Toyota want to make a change to doctors certificate after 5 days sicky currently 8 days sickies for doctor certificate, this one change has been put to the unions and guess what, the unions said no.
This is what is trickling out on the news.
Other union related problems in Holden, large drug use problem within staff.
Fulcrum Fixture
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:35 PM
Fulcrum Fixture
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:38 PM
Thrillseeker
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:42 PM
What do we actually make these days? Our mindset is to pull it out of the ground, sell it overseas and then buy it back.....
_Lazarus_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:43 PM
The cheaper cars get, the sooner they seem to end up in wrecking yards.
People seem to be happy buying crap these days, #@$^%& if I know why...
.
Shit a brick
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:46 PM
Now if youre a boiler maker and or miner you may very well price yourself out of a job. Decent wage yes I think its swung the other way
_ChaosWeaver_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:48 PM
Yep agree Mark ... Go out and have a look how many holden's are in the driveway other than the Torana's we own .. I bet most of your daily drives are Jap....
Shit a brick
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:52 PM
TerraLX
Holden had their big hand out for hundreds of millions then I would want a tough question asked like the question Hockey asked, either your here or you're not. I wouldn't want hundreds of millions given away only for Holden to close up anyway just like Ford.
_ChaosWeaver_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:54 PM
Hey Bart I dont know what you do for a job, but if you had your wage cut & cut, while house prices and everything else keeps going up you'd probably understand a little better... Mining Jobs haven't always paid the money they do now... and as i said, go underground to earn a living, and then tell those guys there over paid.. real easy to have an opinion, but i doubt your basing it on any knowledge .....
_Skapinad_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:54 PM
Shit a brick
Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:03 PM
ChaosWeaver you should understand their are people in our region who are willing to work for peanuts. That's ,y point.
I know what a cut feels like so does my wife. Something Holden workers wouldn't have a clue about it seems. Very well looked after so well it now has to end.
I work 2 jobs, work Saturdays wife works Sat and Sunday, not much of a life and has it toll. I don't have a silver spoon in my bum in case anyone wonders.
I think you're right Gonad
Edited by Bart, 11 December 2013 - 08:04 PM.
_ChaosWeaver_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:06 PM
I agree some pain needs to be inflicted..... but i dont think this is all the workers fault.... how happy would you be if the government put a levy on all wage earners earning over $80,000 a year to help Holden as well as lowering Holden workers conditions & wages ....
Green Eggs and Spam
Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:08 PM
I don't see anybody to blame.
Its just market forces at work in a capitalist system.
We all live in it and we all contribute to its structure and function.
The beast runs on profit.
It cant function any other way.
_Bomber Watson_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:12 PM
Yep agree Mark ... Go out and have a look how many holden's are in the driveway other than the Torana's we own .. I bet most of your daily drives are Jap....
I have Jap in my driveway.
05 single cab 2wd V6 auto Hilux.
Reason its there?
Nothing locally manufactured comes close to comparing to it in towing capacity and load capacity, as well as tray size.
Its the only 2wd ute on the market that i can fit my Harley in the back of with the tailgate up.
Its the only 2wd ute on the market that has the load capacity that i can put my harley in the back, put a tool box in the back, some spares, two people in the front, and hook the car trailer up with the Torana on it and go for a drive.
And its has a diff and Leaf springs, meaning besides the falcon ute, its the only 2wd ute on the market that can actually tow close to its rated capacity safely..
I would have brought the falcon ute, but sadly the first two points it fails on.
So go ahead, blame ME. Blame me for Holden or Ford not making a vehicle that is suitable to my needs. I frOcking dare ya.
Cheers.
_ChaosWeaver_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:13 PM
So So true Wot......... we all want to earn big wages .... and expect everything else made here to be cheap .. goodluck
_ChaosWeaver_
Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:20 PM
Hey totally understand bomber............. if you ride a harley you'd need a ute to pick it up when it breaks down ... 
seriously I don't give a fuk what you or anyone else buys, I myself would only buy a Commodore out of the Holden range... the rest are very average in my opinion....
"Have you still got that Torana!"
Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:24 PM
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