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202 EFI cutting out

Started by _nips060_ , Jan 18 2014 01:46 PM
202 EFI cutting out intermitted fault

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#1 _nips060_

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 01:46 PM

Hi all,

 

I'm having a problem with my UC torana hatchback. It has a black 202 EFI from VK (stock).

 

So the story goes, I got the Torana as a daily driver after selling my VZ SSZ crewman (I work FIFO) don't do too many km's so wanted to get around in style.

 

Mucking around with this and that over the last 5 months one thing that was not right was the dizzy.

 

It was at 6 deg advanced at idle (should be 12 for EFI) if you moved it up it would ping (got up to 8 on 98 octane) according to the numbers on the dizzy it was out of a 2.85,  went to repco and got a EFI dizzy, it was chinese, worked fine except the advance curve was the same as the one I had (not so happy) so I regrafted the one that came in the car, by filling in the stoppers and got 12 deg at idle and 38 deg all in at 3200 or so rpm. So while I was there I found that the coil was a regulated 9v and it had 12v going to it so I found a 12v coil and changed it over, went for a drive it went good but cut out under full noise then came straight back on, then off, and on then off.

 

I ran a wire from the battery to the coil and away we went, got home and played with some plugs under the dash and it was working again, no big-e but this is when it all went pear shaped!. The next day seemed fine but that night went to go to the shop and it was cranking over but wouldn't start, took the wife's car and thought have a look tomorrow.

 

Thinking the dizzy, so went looking and had spark and fuel. I have put a pressure gauge on the fuel line and that was fine. After dizzies in and modules in and out and new coil and module. Reading in here looked at the 12v supply, the new red 12v had been crimped on to the pink resisted wire at the ignition switch with one of those dodgy spade things that had melted. I cut that out and the pink wire from the ignition switch and soldered the new red straight from the ignition switch to the coil.

 

So the car will start most of the time, run for a while then as it warms up shuts off. Sometimes it will start straight up but sooner or later it won't start, this is over 30 minutes.

Had an electrician look and after looking at everything he was leaning to the module, ran it until  it cut out, changed the module and it ran for a while, (electrician left) but still cutting out.

 

Went looking through all the wiring for an intermittent fault but nothing. So reconditioned bosch dizzy, another computer leads and plugs look good (gap 1.5) am happy with the tacho-relay air meter looks good and the car was running well before this happened. looked at all the efi wiring diagrams cant see anything obvious to me.

 

It is not missing it just cuts out but still has spark (take the lead off and crank it still sparking) and fuel (when it cuts out the pressure gauge is still up and the tacho relay drops out after the motor cuts out)

 

I live in Perth Wanneroo area, don't mind coughing up the money to fix it but need to find someone who knows these motors.

Please help the wife is going to cut my things off soon after telling her it was a good idea to have this as a second car!

 

Thanks Chris


#2 _Viper_

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:02 PM

What ecu are you running? Im going to assume the stock Delco ecu...

 

If the spark is indeed still working as it should then it must be the injectors not firing...

 

Im not directly familiar with the stock 202 setups but I dont think they have any crank angle or cam sensor so the ecu is most likely getting its RPM signal directly from the coil -ve if this wire has a dodgy connection and the ecu looses rpm signal it will think the engine is at 0rpm and not inject fuel.. Or there could even just be noise in the line. You could try using a shielded wire and make sure its kept away from other high power wires.


#3 LJ RB30

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:20 PM

Have you been putting heat transfer compound under the modules? They need this or they will cut out when they get too hot!

 

Just a thought


#4 _nips060_

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:24 PM

thanks Viper

Yes the ECU is stock bosch and gets rpm from the -ve coil but this also feeds the tacho-relay and that is not dropping out but this is a good spot to look I did fix the -ve at the dizzy, it mite be noise and the coil has no suppresser on it do you think that would help.

chris



yes I have been using the heat compound.


#5 _Viper_

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:15 PM

Are you also using resistor spark plugs?


#6 _Viper_

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:23 PM

Just throwing ideas out here...

Are you running a return line from the fuel rail back to the tank? If not the fuel could be boiling in the rails. even with a return line make sure the lines are routed away from heat/protected

o2 sensor is only really in use during cruise, Coolant temp could make you run richer then normal but not stop running completely..

Not sure what type of throttle position sensor it has but some ECU's will cut fuel if its detecting 0% throttle until the rpm's drop to say 1500rpm to conserve fuel and help with engine braking

Does the ecu control directly control spark at all and it has a locked dizzy or is the ignition system stand alone and still uses weights and vacuum advance to control spark timing?


Edited by Viper, 18 January 2014 - 04:23 PM.

#7 rodomo

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:04 PM

A thingo to download that might help? The dissy is stand alone.
http://www.google.co...YKlWoEvVf0kn6Bw

Edited by rodomo, 18 January 2014 - 05:05 PM.

#8 _nips060_

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

is there a difference in spark plugs?


#9 _nips060_

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:46 PM

the dizzy is stand alone the later ones had EST with a locked dizzy

thanks rodomo looked at a lot online but never seen that.

the ecu dose cut the fuel out until 1800 rpm. the rpm comes from -ve coil the throttle switch has only to settings idle and over 40% power and it wont start with the throttle part open. 


#10 _nips060_

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 01:35 AM

So new plugs and leads just in case, made a jumper to bypass the tacho-relay but no still not working.

all the connectors on the ecu tested fine for power from injectors, throttle switch, air meter.

the injectors are earthed to activate the only thing I can think is bad earthing?

I will just start again with the wiring.


#11 _nips060_

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 12:45 AM

So had the electrician over today and after lots of things off and on we think it was a bad cliip on the temp sender. So had it running still rough but went for a drive gave it a squirt and the biggest cloud of white smoke came out the back I have ever seen. Rolled to a stop had oil coming out the air cleaner box looked for a piston hanging out the side but could not find one so cranked it over and it still moved so cranked it until if finally started and then limped home. Couldn't think what had gone wrong, but I think all the fuel I have been putting in the last month has filled the sump up. When I dipped it, it was way over. Hope I haven't damaged it too much., but I think my electrical problem is fixed.

#12 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 06:55 AM

Mucking around with this and that over the last 5 months one thing that was not right was the dizzy.

 

It was at 6 deg advanced at idle (should be 12 for EFI) if you moved it up it would ping (got up to 8 on 98 octane) according to the numbers on the dizzy it was out of a 2.85,  went to repco and got a EFI dizzy, it was chinese, worked fine except the advance curve was the same as the one I had (not so happy) so I regrafted the one that came in the car, by filling in the stoppers and got 12 deg at idle and 38 deg all in at 3200 or so rpm. So while I was there I found that the coil was a regulated 9v and it had 12v going to it so I found a 12v coil and changed it over, went for a drive it went good but cut out under full noise then came straight back on, then off, and on then off.

 

Have you checked TDC ? If you are relying on the harmonic balancer you may be a fair wack out.

 

I'm not too sure that 38 deg all in at 3200 rpm is correct either, My efi 6 runs a max of more like 28 deg.


#13 yel327

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 11:58 AM

I saw that CAE now sell a conversion harness to run this engine off a VN Delco 808 ECU. They mention dizzy mods, so they must be putting sensors in the dizzy. Might be worth looking at one day for you, will allow you to get rid of that awful VK airflow flap.

#14 _nips060_

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

Hi yel327 I have read about going to the Delco ecu but that is a job for another day.

I need this running really good before I commit to that, tuning the delco ecu's is something I have never done. and this is meant to be my daily driver.


#15 _Viper_

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 10:13 PM

Best off just going for an aftermarket ecu, If you want a cheaper option a Megasquirt would work well... Good to hear you might have it sorted tho.


#16 S pack

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 10:20 PM

So had it running still rough but went for a drive gave it a squirt and the biggest cloud of white smoke came out the back I have ever seen. Rolled to a stop had oil coming out the air cleaner box looked for a piston hanging out the side but could not find one

 

May be a good idea to do a compression test. Might have put a hole in a piston.


#17 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:47 AM

May be a good idea to do a compression test. Might have put a hole in a piston.

 

^^^^

 

why I suggested to check the timing


#18 _nips060_

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:45 AM

I get home today so will look for damage and check timing.


#19 _nips060_

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 03:16 PM

Well if anyone is having the same trouble with the vk EFI I can say you are flogging a dead horse.

I have ended up with a Microtech ecu and is OK but the Delco conversion from pcmhacking looks better.


#20 DanWA

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 03:50 PM

+1 for the pcmhacking Delco conversion, running a mates efi 202 well!

 

Or other solution is remove 202 and fit a real engine


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