355 replies to this topic

[Ice]

You own toranas but you bag them out with the plastic title
its got me #@$^%&

[xu2308]

Holden did release a full blown muscle car from the factory, The VN Commodore SS Group A to the Punters, the Last Factory Special that was ever built by Holden them self's

Edited by xu2308, 11 March 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[xu2308]

I said VN SS Group A  not VL

[xu2308]

The 308 is Awesome I reckon, Larry Perkins hit 7500 RPM in top gear down Con Rod and that Last 308 V8 Won Bathurst, beating all the Chevy V8's, one of the Best Bathurst's ever

Edited by xu2308, 11 March 2014 - 08:26 PM.

[Dr Terry]

Its exactly what its about and clearly explains the reality of the situation of why Holden has never manufactured, designed, sold a factory production muscle car.

 

Nothing Holden have ever done stands up in 2014. Where the real muscle cars stand up regardless: of being old or new and a true muscle car can even compete in a straight line with exotica supercars. (the whole point of a muscle car is its for everyone as they are far cheaper than buying a Ferrari or Lambo and just as fast (straight anyhow)

 

This is not a definitive list but to give an idea of what a true Muscle Car is and how it can shred its tyres at will:

 

1969 Dodge Charger 500 Hemi, 1990 quad cam ZR1 Vette, 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner 426 Hemi, 1966 427 Vette, 1968 302cu Z28 Camaro, 1993-2014 Dodge Viper (or srt), 1968 Ford Mustang 428, 1972-1973  Pontiac Firebird Trans Am SD455, 1969  Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1, 1965 Dodge Coronet Hemi, 2013 ZR1 LS9 Vette, 1966 Ford Shelby 427 Cobra, 1964  Dodge 426 Hemi, 1971 Chevrolet Corvette LS6, 1970 Dodge Challenger Hemi, 1969 Ford Mustang Boss 429

 

 

Now its not just my favourite red team (Holden) that have done this, but Holden is the only one that matters to me. However

 

Lets look at Chevy:

 

They used to have 4 or more motor options in the Camaro and Corvette  But as much as I like the amazing SBC/BBC Chevy only had a handful that are true Muscle Cars the rest are the same rubbish that Holden do with the stripes, badges, v8 and spoiler rubbish.

 

It would be again like Holden a total joke to label them as muscle cars just because they are a camaro or vette. Please people need some form of reality and take these crazy bias blinkers off.

 

For instance a US$33,593 1987 350cu manual Corvette doing 15.3sec@90mph 1/4 mile and 0-60mph in 6.7sec is definitely Not a Muscle Car just as much as the 1988 350cu Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z28 doing 15.67sec@91mph 1/4 mile and 0-60mph in 7.2sec is Not a Muscle Car.

 

 

So just to test the theory and attempt to get a fair playing field I thought I would stack the deck and get a small 164HP Brick on Wheels that weights way more that a Plastic Engined Torana Muscle Car. Throw in a power sapping auto vs the max power from that amazing 308 powerhouse and compare. I threw in the SLR 5000 and A9X numbers and its clear to me that either the Kia is a muscle car in Camouflage or maybe someone has optimistic visions of grandeur about what makes a Muscle Car.

 

 

 

Just for the record I thought a reminder of a true muscle car performance (even if built in the 60's) from any of the cars in the above list can whip the Kia and funny thing in a straight line keep pace with a 2013 Porsche GT3 or 458 Ferrari.

 

Sorry I love my Hatchs and GTS350's but std besides styling they are nothing special as Holden kicked them out the factory door. The moral of the story is don't line up a Kia in your factory std A9X / SLR5000 or it could be embarrassing. Especially if you gloating to your passenger just before your race with the Kia about what you paid as a collector because it is a Holden muscle car. ...... LOL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This whole tag of being a Holden Muscle Car has to be taken for what it is and that is A Total JOKE.

 

Now there are 5 LX Torana hatchbacks inc 3 currently with their pos 308's (two highly modified) in the back shed, so I am far from biased as I absolutely love them but I know their actual capabilities and what they are and what they are not. One of my SS hatchs is one that I brought brand new from Sydney Ats in 1976 so its been with me forever.

 

I just don't like to BS to myself about how gutless Holdens performance cars where and how we struggled for decades to get the plastics to make reliable Hp.

 

Because the relaity is that std from Holden they could hardly make enough Hp to roll back your fores#in.

 

I am just joking.  I just love to stir up all the overly biased fanboys as they honestly don't believe that they are in self denial. For them the old plastic, clunky all aussie,  and engineering masterpiece they call a bango diff is as good as it gets.

Most of that is irrelevant drivel. As I said I didn't even weigh in on what was a muscle car & what wasn't. But you do have some unresolved issues there, It might pay to chill out.

 

BTW did you ever drive a stock as a rock L34 back in the day, or a 75 LH SL/R5000 or an HJ 308 ? If you did, you wouldn't be relying so much on motor magazine pap.

 

Dr Terry

[RallyRed]

forget the actual argument / discussion.....there is some good history and old magazine articles coming to the fore here.
Good stuff.

Just my 2 cents worth.....I'd be very happy to have an A9X...and it would always be a wonderful car to me ..muscle or not.
308 V8 would be fine to.

[Dr Terry]

I finally worked out what LXSS350 was referring to a 'plastic', a lot of his posts are so cryptic !!

 

Dr Terry

[xu2308]

Chaos

oh yeah, I Love that Win, what a way for the 308 V8 to go out, LP's Bathurst Winning Car from 1993 should be in a Museum Forever, what a Win

Edited by xu2308, 11 March 2014 - 08:40 PM.