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Allan Grice 1987 VL Bob Jane T-Marts Commodore - specifications

Started by _LOR-411_ , Mar 30 2014 03:51 PM

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#1 _LOR-411_

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:51 PM

Hi all, I'm looking for the specifications on Gricey's 1987 orange Bob Jane T-Marts VL.

I'm looking into building a race replica to put on the track and have been researching the Brock Mobil cars but want to do something different and a little less expensive.

Also, my XU-1 was sold through Bob Jane's Southern Motors in 1973 so there is a connection to build a Grice 1987 replica. Love that tangerine colour (and so does Bob).

Anyway, if anyone knows anything about this car I'd love some info to begin my project.

Thanks, Bruce

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#2 YELLAcakeu308

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 05:13 AM

I think i might have a the 87 bathurst book at home if you want some pics posted up?

I like the black VH Sega car (john sands?) car

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#3 _LOR-411_

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 03:56 PM

Hi, I'm in the process of looking for that book but they seem to be a little expensive at the moment. I have the '86 book and that gives a good background to "The Cars That Climbed the Mountain". If you could scan and post the page that gives info on Gricey's car that would be great.

If anyone else has info on the drive train that would be great, too. I know the engine and gearbox were built by Roadways but don't know about the specifics of the engine / box / diff etc.

Thanks, Bruce

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#4 YELLAcakeu308

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

I do have the 87 book, there'd have be about 10 pics of it in there. A really good one of it on two wheels.

wheels look the same as 05 Mobil car.

Real Race Cars did a feature on the VL HDT car which had a 5 speed getrag & shortened 9inch?

If your in brisbane i could swap the 87 book for the 86 book this week.

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#5 _LOR-411_

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:00 PM

Hi Yallacake, I'm on the Gold Coast but I'm going to Melbourne for a couple of weeks but would love to swap books. I have the No. 5 book "Bathurst 1986/87" which is in very good condition. It has heaps of great info but one year earlier for what I want. Keep in touch and when I get back we'll talk. The HDT cars did have Getrag boxes ($15,000) and 9 inch diffs with Harrop alloy centres and axles. Again, very expensive. Still looking for info on the Grice drive train. Thanks, Bruce.

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#6 Redzone

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:39 AM

I have a mate who worked at roadways in that era, he helped build the 86 bathurst winner so I'm sure he would have built this one too. I'll send him a link to this thread.

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#7 Redzone

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:45 AM

Ps the wheels are bbs r50

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#8 _LOR-411_

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:21 PM

Thanks Redzone, that would be fantastic.

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#9 _schubel rennsport_

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:45 PM

Hi guys, My name is Flavio. I was the engine builder at roadways racing during 87 - 89. I also did lots of chassis work there so go wild with questions on GRPA or NASCAR or AUSCAR or Formula Holden or pretty much anything else that raced during that period. I'm not always on the net but I'll do what I can to answer your wants and needs.

Thank Redzone to put me here. 1 beer for simple questions. 1 dozen beers for secret bits questions :rockon:

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#10 a9x868

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 10:30 PM

Hi guys, My name is Flavio. I was the engine builder at roadways racing during 87 - 89. I also did lots of chassis work there so go wild with questions on GRPA or NASCAR or AUSCAR or Formula Holden or pretty much anything else that raced during that period. I'm not always on the net but I'll do what I can to answer your wants and needs.

Thank Redzone to put me here. 1 beer for simple questions. 1 dozen beers for secret bits questions

you could end up with enough to open a pub!

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#11 Shiney005

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:35 PM

G,day Bruce,
I bought a VL that was originally a spare shell for the car in question. It ended up being built into a road car and put on the road by one of the Roadways employees. (Flavio will know more I'm sure) A few of the plastic body parts have the Bob Jane orange paint on their undersides. The boot lid has been hole sawed to an inch of its life and the cold air intake is the same as the race cars. The sump is also a of a work of art being made out of mini orb. (More cooling area I presume)

Seen this one?

V.L. GMP&A 017small.jpg 61.17K 11 downloads

V.L. GMP&A 022small.jpg 66.22K 12 downloads

Edited by Shiney005, 03 April 2014 - 03:36 PM.

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#12 _LOR-411_

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:01 PM

Hi Laurie, great looking car and excellent find. Do you still have the car because I'd really like to start with questions about the body. First, do you know if this body came via HDT (meaning a specially race-prepared shell) or was it a standard body (if so, sourced from where?) and strengthened for racing? I know many privateer cars were standard bodies as they didn't have the connections with the factory that HDT had. I have been reading in the 1986 Bathurst book that one of the privateers used an ex-rental VK as a starting point. So, after all that, if the shells that Gricey used were standard shells, how were they strengthened?

Gotta start somewhere so why not with the shell? I'll get to the other bits as the post progresses.

These questions might also start jogging Flavio's memory. Thanks for introducing yourself above Flavio, your information is critical not just to me but for race history.

Thanks, Bruce

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#13 _LOR-411_

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:08 PM

Hi again Laurie, I've just looked at the youtube video - nice car, cheesy acting. Loved it, though.

Also, I've just seen in your profile where you list your VL as a GMH P&A body. I understand that this means the body was purchased as a spare part from GMH but how different are the bodies and can it be replicated? Bruce

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#14 Shiney005

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 11:29 PM

I have never even had it up on a hoist to have a good look at it!! I had other projects on the go when I bought it and it has pretty much sat in the shed ever since. However, the body identification plate does have a story to tell.

Kal05.Brock bday.GMPA 151small.jpg 58.36K 12 downloads

The HDT cars all had either "HDT RACING" or "RACING UNIT" on the Body No. line. Also, all HDT (and all NASCO replacement shells) were painted white with a paint code to match. ie 1J053-D. They also had a trim code. The one HDT plate that I have seen was riveted to the radiator support panel and not the firewall like mine.
Which leaves my one as not a HDT shell, and not a standard NASCO shell either. It is also a little bit odd that mine has come with the 308 and 5 speed. Apart from extra spot welds and slightly more accommodating wheel wells (hearsay, I haven't measured them) I don't think there would be much difference between this body and a standard one, although I will pull it to bits one day and have a good look at it. I have spoken to Les Small, and apart from confirming it is what it is, he wasn't terribly accommodating when pressed for more information. Probably got him on a bad day.
As an aside, do you know where the original ended up after its Auscar crash?

Edited by Shiney005, 03 April 2014 - 11:38 PM.

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#15 LJGTR6

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:22 PM

^^^ That is a cool plate. Says it all.

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#16 _LOR-411_

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:47 PM

I have never even had it up on a hoist to have a good look at it!! I had other projects on the go when I bought it and it has pretty much sat in the shed ever since. However, the body identification plate does have a story to tell.

Kal05.Brock bday.GMPA 151small.jpg

The HDT cars all had either "HDT RACING" or "RACING UNIT" on the Body No. line. Also, all HDT (and all NASCO replacement shells) were painted white with a paint code to match. ie 1J053-D. They also had a trim code. The one HDT plate that I have seen was riveted to the radiator support panel and not the firewall like mine.
Which leaves my one as not a HDT shell, and not a standard NASCO shell either. It is also a little bit odd that mine has come with the 308 and 5 speed. Apart from extra spot welds and slightly more accommodating wheel wells (hearsay, I haven't measured them) I don't think there would be much difference between this body and a standard one, although I will pull it to bits one day and have a good look at it. I have spoken to Les Small, and apart from confirming it is what it is, he wasn't terribly accommodating when pressed for more information. Probably got him on a bad day.
As an aside, do you know where the original ended up after its Auscar crash?

I would say the motor and gearbox combo would be to meet homologation standards (and marked on the plate). I have never before seen a VL P&A plate but weren't the Torana plates marked GMHP&A? Thanks for posting that pic Laurie it helps me in creating my build.

I would also love to know about the chassis number. Obviously, I'm not asking you to post your number but is it a standard pattern number stamped into the left shock tower e.g. AVL123456M (or A?). Are there any other plates on the car or just that unique build plate? Are there any roll cage mounting points where a cage would have been removed,and if so where?

I don't know what happened to the original car. Are you saying it ended it's days as an Auscar?

Thanks again, Bruce

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#17 Shiney005

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:08 PM

Toranas were marked GMP&A on the Model line of the Body Identification Plate.
Commodores are marked Nasco Shell on vin plate.

Chassis number is standard (Melbourne) but is a very low number. I really don't think a cage was ever fitted to this body.
As far as the history of the Roadways Bob Jane No.2 car, pretty sure it started as a new shell as the '86 car ended up with Crosby. Not sure why the orange one was sold, but I believe it did go to auscar where eventually (1995) Allan Hurran was killed while testing it out to purchase. The '88 Roadways FAI Grice car was a new build and ended up with Terry Finnigan.

I an no expert and was not there on the day so please don't take anything I might have heard as gospel.
Don't be shy Flavio. You know more than any of us.

Edited by Shiney005, 06 April 2014 - 01:13 PM.

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#18 _vbvbvb088_

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

This (AG Grice Bob Jane VL), VK Chickadee and VB Repco my favorite OZ race cars. Plus usual suspects - Craven mild A9X, KB's Camaro and Greens Tuff...

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#19 REDA9X

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:42 PM

Interesting subject. NASCO died in the 70's and became GMP&A (Genereal Motors Parts and Accessories), but people still refer to NASCO, and interestingly some tags still had NASCO on them after NASCO was gone.

I can understand why Les Small was less than accomodating, as lots of those guys now are as they and other people have been burnt by people chasing information then using it to make their cars into something they are not. In John Sheppards opinion now, these cars should be crushed. I know of a person going and taking photos of every square inch of another car, then going back and replicatiing the welds and brackets into their own car, I'm sure they are not the only one.

For the record there were no HDT shells and race shells, there were simply race shells and replacement shells. You will find some teams had their information on their tags though, like it may be stamped with HDT. Generally speaking replacement shells were the ones that said no paint or things like primed and sealed while rolling race shells had a paint code.

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#20 Shiney005

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:35 PM

What does NASCO stand for Red?

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#21 Collo

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:51 AM

National Automotive Service Co from memory. Something like that.

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#22 _rob350hatch_

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:51 PM

interesting the car that percy turns up in has an interior.grp a didnt have interiors?

press car ?anyone???

it is my fav vl and i have fond memories of 87 race watching it hold its own.

the 86 chook car had 9 inch according to amcm.did the vl sadly rely on or have to use the borg warner unit.sad if thats the case as the diff is what ruined their race.

1517381_286038078211230_596329153_n.jpeg 228.3K 10 downloads

and in this pic a sign of the brock troubles a twr hrt decal above the rear wheel on a hdt sourced grp a ouch ouch !!!!

i wonder what pb thought when he saw that.

Edited by rob350hatch, 08 April 2014 - 12:54 PM.

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#23 _LOR-411_

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:21 PM

interesting the car that percy turns up in has an interior.grp a didnt have interiors?

press car ?anyone???

it is my fav vl and i have fond memories of 87 race watching it hold its own.

the 86 chook car had 9 inch according to amcm.did the vl sadly rely on or have to use the borg warner unit.sad if thats the case as the diff is what ruined their race.

1517381_286038078211230_596329153_n.jpeg

and in this pic a sign of the brock troubles a twr hrt decal above the rear wheel on a hdt sourced grp a ouch ouch !!!!

i wonder what pb thought when he saw that.

Hi Rob, I know the HDT No 10 car, the '87 Bathurst winner, had a nine inch diff but would like to know if Grice had one also. The grice VL seems to have the dash and door trims in the colour 'sandalwood' bit not much else, no roof lining for example. The car is also white with the orange and black painted over the top leaving the interior colour and inside the doors white. Also, are you saying that this shell sourced from HDT? I've have read where some cars (rolling chassis) in the '86 bathurst were listed as HDT 'customer cars'.

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#24 Shiney005

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 12:35 AM

Mine was built with a nine inch but I couldn't tell you if it came from Roadways spare parts bin. C'mon Flavio, where are you?

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#25 _LOR-411_

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:21 AM

Mine was built with a nine inch but I couldn't tell you if it came from Roadways spare parts bin. C'mon Flavio, where are you?

Is yours a standard nine inch or does it have aftermarket internals - axles, centre etc. I know the Brock 05 car of 1987 had a "Harrop carrier and internals".