70 replies to this topic

[xu2308]

Every Sunbird LX Hatchback will be under watch now

[REDA9X]

Thats a big call saying the car was definitely a Sunbird.

 

What makes a car a particular model?  Well, it's a combination of things such as driveline, trim level and paintwork. At the end of that comes the tags that identify the car.

I don't think you're really grasping these things very well here, and lets take out the fact that the car was destroyed for a sec and sit back and look at what facts we have and think logically for a second here.

 

Firstly GMH decides they would like to have a car at the motor show. I was told the call was made fairly late in the piece and they had very limited time to build the car hence the reason it wasn't complete.

 

So Mike Prowse is in charge of the production line and gets the call, so he pulls an incomplete sell off the line and it gets wheeled down to the styling department. It's a bare shell at this stage. The styling department puts together the trim, wheel, bodywork and paintwork and Mike then puts it on a truck to go to the show.

At no point were tags fitted to the car at this stage.

 

So what part of this car was Sunbird? The trim it appears, but if it was a Sunbird that would suggest it was a 4cylinder too, but it clearly has twin pipes out the back. As for the wheels, they would have required the larger HQ_HZ discs to be fitted, but that doesn't mean it had the calipers, but again, not Sunbird features.

 

So what about if the car did return to Holden and was sold off? What would they have taged it as, because really, it's a bitsa car. Would they have thrown a 4 cylinder in a car like that with the twin pipes to sell as a Sunbird, or would they put a V8 in and tag it as an SS or SL? I might add at this point this was not the only Torana show car Mike was involved in at the same time, but the second car has never shown up in any pictures anywhere at any shows that I have seen.

 

I think you are under the imperssion the car was a complete complianced car that they threw some flares on, but thats not the case. I don't think I'll be able to tell you otherwise though.

Trouble is with a significant find first the evidence has to completely disappear. Its always big trouble when the chassis number and paperwork suddenly come out of left field. The car was definitely a sunbird with its 4 speed, has woodgrain dash, it was a complete car right down to its exhausts it had the A9X kit inc SS style colour bumpers.

[xu2308]

Well if a LX Hatch shows up, that has Sunbird Trim on the Tag and is not a Sunbird and its a in-house GMH Port Melbourne Car, will be interesting.

 

AL

[REDA9X]

What makes you think it had a 308,or any engine for that matter

[REDA9X]

Sniff sniff, I smell something, smells like...bullshit.  All too convient the way the story grows and grows.

[REDA9X]

No, nothing to do with Mike at all. All of a sudden it has a 308 and people saw it, after 3 pages

Red what is BS? Mike said the car is 100% crushed .... so it could have had its exhausts connected to a 351 windsor and fmx ..... the car is history (as you said the story ends)

 

Unless Mike is saying he didn't actually see it get crushed?

[Neils LX]

Just for Sunbird argument it has rear tailight surrounds just like Sunbird and SLs. (not getting involved in argument just pointing it out)

[REDA9X]

And an SS decal

 

Just for Sunbird argument it has rear tailight surrounds just like Sunbird and SLs. (not getting involved in argument just pointing it out)

[yel327]

ALL production required a Schedule Entry no matter what it was for - Prototype, Engineering Use, Show Car, Regular order, Special Order, Plant stock, in fact every single unit that was to be produced was entered in the system as someone had to pay for it at the end of the day. A bodyshell could not be built without the Schedule entry being processed - simple. The SU card was the authorisation for 'Special Units' that deviated from what was approved for production. A Body ID plate was required to be fitted to the body in white before it went through the paint shop. Every bodyshell had an ID plate on it even it was only primed. All Show Cars were in the system. Some were pre-arranged and some were last minute decisions - this was reflected on the Body ID plate. When Holden was finished with them they were disposed of and any costs recovered. A vehicle on an outstanding invoice was NEVER destroyed. It was either sold or parted out to other projects in order to recover costs. Numerous 'show cars' had several 'lives' as it were...See attached pictures for further discussion. This one was an SU, attached example of paperwork for another SU car. The tag however belongs most likely to this car and it shows it as a yellow budgie GMP&A shell.

 

The snoflakes were 15" and for some reason were not allowed to be used on the road for whatever reason. John Bagshaw's turbo HJ GTS sedan had the same wheels in blue at the same show and other than show appearances it wore 14" Hotwires.

Attached Files

•  SU paperwork card.jpg   109.2K   3 downloads
•  Torana show car.jpg   173.32K   3 downloads

[RallyRed]

goodness me Yel....where the hell did you get that!!??

 

Good info

[xu2308]

Awesome info

[yel327]

goodness me Yel....where the hell did you get that!!??

 

Good info

 

You'd be amazed at what is out there still! As far as I am aware this ID plate came off a car after many years or use in some form or another, I assume as a road car. It was very rusty from what I understand. This yellow hatch had a driveline alright as Leo Pruneau drove it at some stage. It also sat in the foyer at the tech centre at Fisherman's bend, Norm discusses this in his book. It was displayed at Melbourne motor show in 3/77 and then Sydney in 8/77. So as this car was obviously built pre 3/77 does this mean that this car was a glimpse as to what was to come for the Sunbird hatchback?  

[REDA9X]

Yes, the body tag is fitted to the cars, but that dioesn't mean it's complianced

The tag pictured is from the car they used to display upside down. I remember there were two, a purple and green hatch and sedan.

[yel327]

That's right, it wouldn't be complianced with a spare part body shell, same as any replacement shell used to repair a smashed car or even a GMP&A race shell. But it doesn't stop it being sold, or registered later for that matter as it would have a chassis number which is all that is needed to register it. That tag is off a Jasmine yellow car too Mick, not a purple or green car.

[REDA9X]

I don't have my paint bookk with me so I can't see that, but there was probably more than the two, but I just remember seeing the two. They went to shows and then dealers got them. They had special stands so they could be upside down. Warringtons had a green sedan and a purple hatch. I used to have picture of them on the showroom floor with a white HZGTS. They were returned to Holden after the did their tour around.

Holden would never sell off a car without a compliance plate. If you see how the HSV's and HDT cars were built (even back to L34 and A9X) they were complianced before being sent to HSV and sent as complete cars ready to sell even though they leave with grey bumpers and steel wheel among other things. Mine even says it's a 5 speed Calais because Holden didn't build a 6 speed at the time.

Theres nothing to say Holden couldn't finish a car off and fit a plate though. I know of two cars that left the factory with no compliance plates as they were never meant for the road, but the factory supplied compliance plates for both so the dealers could sell them off. One of them they stuffed up an said it was a sedan but it's a hatch.

[yel327]

Mick, the fact the yellow GMP&A tag has no driveline info may well explain it was one of those cars you mention. 

 

GMH did sell lots of registerable or even registered cars (or incomplete cars) without a compliance plate, some very recent. Plus every replacement or special purpose body shell (including GMP&A A9X and early Commodore shells) had the potential to be registered without compliance, but they did have chassis numbers which is essentially the same as compliance to the registering authorities. A Nasco/GMP&A body in primer was always intended to simply replace a damaged body and none of the tags swapped over. The car would take on the identity of the replacement body via its chassis number for the case of LC-UC and HK-HG. The ones where the identity remained with the original car would be those with the chassis number on the subframe like HQ-WB, if of course the subframe survived whatever killed the body.

 

The 350Z was sold in an unregisterable condition, it even says on the tender list that the Motor Registration Branch refused to register the vehicle in its current condition, and no iD plate data is given unlike every other car on that particlualr tender list (it may still have had its plates though). 

 

I do agree with you that in general the public would not be able to buy a car without a compliance plate, but GMH/Holden did sell off cars, incomplete cars and bodies destined to be registerable cars without a compliance plate. It makes sense even not to have a compliance plate on the replacement bodies or incomplete cars as the compliance liability lies with the person putting the car back together not GMH/Holden.