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Rocket the not so GTR or XU1 !

Started by _Agent 34_ , Jul 08 2014 08:28 PM

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#226 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 09:07 PM

MOre electrical load, more amps you need, and the more power the alternator draws when charging.

Just a guess but with a carby'd race car you wont be running to much electrical gear so wont need anything huge, 55a should be fine.

Cheers.

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#227 warrenm

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 06:51 AM

Like Bomber Watson said, 55amp should be fine. Also need to check if you have an internal regulator or external, the Torana would have been external from factory but a lot would have been changed over the years.

I think this is from a HR which is similar, this is an external regulator, it has 2 spade terminals at the bottom marked IND D+ & DF.

ACE085.jpg 52.85K 4 downloads

This is an internal reg, (the box on the back) it has 1 spade terminal marked D+

BXG1241.jpg 66.76K 4 downloads

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#228 RallyRed

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 10:08 AM

.......also may depend on how anal you are about weight Grant......

Some guys seem to run the smallest alt. they can, and a tiny little battery in the boot, that will just crank it over a few times, and then have a 50 amp Anderson plug connected to the battery in the boot....each time the car comes back in between runs, it goes straight in the battery charger which has the other 1/2 of the Ando plug on it instead of aligator clips.

Thus quick to connect and no time wasted regarding getting the correct polarity each time it is connected.

I'd always be worried about it not cranking after a flooded engine, or whatever, but as said above, there's not much draw on a typical old Torana battery.......except the electric pump and the big one - a thermo fan or two.

Could probably save just as much wieght if you didnt eat breakfast and lunch!!....but hey....some of the fast guys do it...so thats good enough for me.

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#229 _Agent 34_

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 07:43 PM

thanks for the run down on this. I have an old one in the shed i will get checked tomorrow at the electricians.

I just didn't get a chance to pull off the stone tray and remove the alternator.

pretty sure it's an internal reg but wil check tomorrow.

100 amp seemed pretty big but all the 55amp ones are around $180 including freight.

G

Col - I'm just not going to eat breakfast on the day !

Edited by Agent 34, 13 July 2015 - 07:44 PM.

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#230 _Agent 34_

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 07:21 PM

Well I've had to make a decision on the new motor - roller or flat tappet.

I have been slowly taking in a lot of information both here and from other experienced people and after talking to a front runner have decided to go a roller set up on the engine build.

The reason is that a roller engine is harder to build based on internal functions of the holden 6 . If i'm going to learn a lesson then I don't want to learn 2 lessons through failure as it's double as expensive. But after the last round of discussions I feel comfortable.

The thing i want to avoid is building a fast flat tappet and then having to build a faster roller engine when i want more mumbo

1) I have a head - done and move over - sold one kid for this

2) knife edge crank

3)Roller cam set up

4) longer H beam rods + suitable pistons

5) YT - light fly wheel

6) romac up front - because going " super damper" is a lot more work- and the bloke who i spoke to on the weekend rev's his to 7.5 + with a romac

7) webbers on warnford manifold

I now have all the parts to start the build and also all the correct technical info on blocking off oil galleries. A very surprising discussion on the weekend centered around the " red crank" and getting a blue / black to loose some weight.

Another quick NC car ( qld) runs a " red crank - honda rods" . The rocket currently runs a red crank with star fires and i rev it to 6.5-8 K

I have prepared to the best of my ability not to fail or limit the failure by some percentage !.

This week i have to change the box as third gear has a whine
Buy a new alternator and install - the old one died again

Prep the car for next sunday for the first NC ( or historic ) which is the FOSC equivalent hit out at the short circuit (south)

The following week it's;

take three cranks for crack testing prior to 2x blue black 1 x red

G

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#231 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 08:54 PM

A few drag racers I know have had issues with modern romacs.

Older romacs are apparently no issue.

Second hand info there, so do with it what you wish.

Cheers.

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#232 warrenm

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 07:58 AM

I've had the same info, Bomber Watson.

http://www.pro-race.com/index.htm were also making a balancer to suit the Holden 6 that was similar weight to the Super Damper with a belt groove so no need for a separate pulley.

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#233 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 08:00 AM

I have a pro race.

Have not used it yet but its certainly a nice bit of kit.

Clearance to the radiator will be an issue.

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#234 _Agent 34_

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 06:37 PM

I've had the same info, Bomber Watson.

http://www.pro-race.com/index.htm were also making a balancer to suit the Holden 6 that was similar weight to the Super Damper with a belt groove so no need for a separate pulley.

So Warren are you saying that the super damper is making one that's for a 6 or is pro-race making one ? as the damper does not have a pulley groove on the back

i had a look and only found this on the specific damper

64291 Holden 6 (186/202 etc) Race Int. 9.18 6.61 1.54 2.16

9.18 is the weight - must be pounds

the romac is

http://www.ebay.com....item25a999752c

i have an old romac on the current motor and suppose i can use this one.

I have a pro race.

Have not used it yet but its certainly a nice bit of kit.

Clearance to the radiator will be an issue.

bomber - how are you dealing with the fan belt on the balancer - with the romac it's first and then the balancer.

I remember with warren's set up the belt was on last .

mmm

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#235 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 07:50 PM

Fan belt grove is in the standard position on the pro race.

Cheers.

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#236 warrenm

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 07:08 AM

As Bomber said, belt groove is part of the Pro-Race damper similar to the Romac, yes the 9.18 is lbs(4.16kg).

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#237 _Agent 34_

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 07:01 PM

Checked today;

romac - $280

prorace $230- I asked about the weight and he quoted 3.3 KG

I'm a bit off this decision so it's on hold for the moment

Dropped into the head company today to discuss springs I have been reading Steve Vizards book and wanted to iron out the last bits on the head . Last night was reading differences between springs/ materials vs type of spring.

given that we are now going roller - the springs need to change. We both mentioned PAC springs in the discussion to which he stated that they were the ones they were proposing to use.- Tick

The Vizard book back either - Beehive or PAC springs. His spin on beehives is that " if they break you drop a valve" .- i have no idea if " hand made applies to the valves - maybe it the thinning of the shaft in the first 25mm"

The PAC spring and retainer is nearly the same weight BUT a bit more expensive - but if the spring beaks then at least you have one inner or outer to save the valve dropping - which is worse.

So;

Were using a PAC spring.

valves back cut, thinned stalks in the flow area and nitrite coated hand made - FCK they look the bomb

Were setting or aiming the spring for somewhere between 610 - 650 lift.

The final cam profile has not been determined yet.

engine block;

Dropped off the two block and cranks have and he is selecting the best out of then - once selected they will spend the weekend in the engine tank ready for next week.

Dropped the Box out and put the new box into the car and it shifts fine - so fingers crossed - Thanks Arthur ( vic ) for the box .- it was as you said.

Ordered a new set of toyo Proxxies for the car so will have then on the rims by the weekend - got 12 mths or 5 meetings out of those tyres - the backs are shagged the fronts have a little bit left

1 more mill

Edited by Agent 34, 22 July 2015 - 07:03 PM.

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#238 RallyRed

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 07:39 PM

Hi Grant,

You are doing a heap of work ( as usual !)...

Re the engine, what hP are you chasing? and what RPM ?

Re the tyres - where do those Toyos stack up against the Yoko Advans?......my Yokos are starting to look second hand..$1000 a set, so interested in your ideas there.

Col

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#239 _Agent 34_

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 07:42 PM

Col,

well i spoke to mike and we have held discussions, and what he has said is that an iron head is getting 320 hp at the crank NOW before I get shot down in flames. i have a long way to go on this. But I'll give it every bit of effort to do right.

What were hoping for with the roller cam is a " fatter curb "- but it's marginal vs flat tappet.

from what i understand is that the roller requires " more pressue + resistance " on the valve train and hence there is a fine line - but a lot of NC cars are running roller engines.

Having said this running a roller is not essential to having a quick car. After the next event I will be focusing on suspension and will go through the car from front to back. sping rates and dampers

The issue is with the roller is that i'ts " just more boodly expensive to do a full roller " FULL STOP . and this is why FAILURE becomes expensive. To prepare the block it's $1400 before any thing goes into it.

On the tyre issue i have flogged the shit out of thoes Toyo's and i reccon that they held in really well. They were " medium "

The fronts had one more go but the backs were gone - for wear i recon that they went well for what i paid $250 a corner fitted - which was about 5 hit outs most of them 3 day events

how many events did you get out of the yoko's - were the soft or med

Racings not cheap - but it beats being on thie side line - LOL !

G

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#240 RallyRed

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 09:02 PM

sounds good mate.......

re the Yokos,,hard to say, a couple of days at Wakefield, 1 x SMP Amaroo, 1 x Bathurst H/C, 3 x Newcastle H/C.......total run time prob no more than 1 hour?

Soft compound.

Reckon they are about 60% worn?

Stick like you know what to you know what.

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#241 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 09:54 PM

320 from an iron head is impressive, very impressive.

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#242 _Agent 34_

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 06:40 PM

Bomber - I have one of the best heads ready to go on the motor, I had to sell all the kids and save one year to paying it off.- actually i though the other motor would blow up by now but it just keeps on revving out !!! LOL

320 at the crank is Less 15% at the wheels. - 48 hp .

so it's a 272 hp at the wheels.

it's big i know, but I am really putting the best effort into this motor.

I'm using the best components, with the right people to guide me. If we come out with 250 at the wheels then i'ts 50 hp at the wheels more than i have right now.

it seems like Ive broken everthing else;

one gear box

sets of brake pads

full set of Tyre's

radiator

two x alternators

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#243 jd lj

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 06:54 PM

That must be an awesome head you've got Grant. What's the specs of it and part number etc? It was prepared by Rams or something wasn't it.

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#244 Dodgey

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:00 PM

Agent 34 deep in thought about his plans to give the red Rocket more hp

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#245 _Agent 34_

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 07:48 PM

Steve,

I Was looking at the arnott's factory in the back ground and thinking " gees id like a Kingston biscuit and a cup of tea" mmmmmm

HA !

Yes it's pretty special, the valves are very interesting and hand made to order for rams. I pick it up next week.

Update#

The crank got crack tested last week and it's off to loose some weight next week.

The block has been cleaned and selected.

James - I'll post the carbies down this week with all the parts. The manifold is getting match ported to the head and i cannot send this till this has been done. - I also want to clean up at nigels ( exterme ) with a polish up.

G

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#246 Potta

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 11:10 PM

Getting serious now!

Sounds like the rocket will have plenty of thrust when this donk goes in!!!

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#247 _Agent 34_

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 05:33 PM

update.

Block off getting the lifter bores done, machining for the lifter ties to clear the block.

crank out at weight watchers - loosing a few kilo's

once both of these are done then we can move on the boring of the block + rods and pistons.

learnt a bit more this week.

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#248 _Agent 34_

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:35 PM

all along was i was thinking that the gearbox was causing the noise so I changed and when I drove it was it was quiet. ( around street ) then

After racing the oil was thin and the noise came back. I again thought that I had broken the box and there was an " alignment issue" which was causing the box to become noisy.

what has happened is that

"I had toasted the crown wheel and pinion" and the noise is coming from the diff and not the box.

another day another lesson.

I'm spewing about changing over the box as i didn't need to !