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Noisy lifters - the right oil?

Started by _judgelj_ , Jul 09 2014 10:53 PM

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25 replies to this topic

#1 _judgelj_

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:53 PM

Ok, so I've noticed lately that my lifters are noisy for 30 seconds or so upon start up. It never used to do this, and the way it happens leads me to believe the lifters are perhaps draining, and it's taking them a bit longer to bleed up, hence the noise.

Now i suspect the oil is to blame (could be wrong), but at the same time i need to change the oil anyway.

I put in a shitty oil to start with because i was planning to change it very quickly:

The engine is not a high km engine, but not brand new either. I did install a new cam and lifters, so there was a lot of assembly grease that would have mixed in (not sure if that changes the viscosity). Obviously it needs to be changed, its done probably 400kms, fairly clean, but may still have filings in it, i dont know.

Now i hope to fix the lifter issue. It could be oil that is too thick, too thin, or just a bad lifter, i dont know. I picked up this oil cheap just to flush out a gearbox on a motocross bike, and was wondering if it would be suitable for my car?

The car has triple SU's and what not, but is not a race engine and i'd like to run mineral oil, im just not sure what weight i need.

Thanks for reading.

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#2 S pack

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:18 PM

Ok, so I've noticed lately that my lifters are noisy for 30 seconds or so upon start up. It never used to do this, and the way it happens leads me to believe the lifters are perhaps draining, and it's taking them a bit longer to bleed up, hence the noise.

Are the lifters noisy for 30 secs at start up with a hot engine or is it only in the mornings after sitting overnight?

It is normal for hydraulic lifters holding valves open to bleed down over time.

Colder air temps in the mornings will thicken the oil and therefore take longer to pump up the bled down lifters at initial cold start up.

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#3 _judgelj_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:37 AM

Yes, that is correct. No noise with warm engine. Usually after long periods of time. But has happened after taking the car to a show or cafe and starting it after some time.

What you said is what i thought, initially, but it doesnt make sense that it happens when the engine is not stone cold. It's just a bit embarrassing to be honest. I cant give the car a rev when it starts up because it sounds like a heap of junk!

Edited by judgelj, 10 July 2014 - 12:38 AM.

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#4 _Inj gtr202_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:54 AM

Oil filter with anti drain back?

Or are you sure its only the one lifter making noise?

I had a cheapo oil filter that caused a similar issue.

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#5 _judgelj_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 11:40 AM

It's a Ryco filter. Very old brand new one, maybe they have advanced since then? Could be one or more, im not sure.

So im starting to feel like i have two questions.

What weight do i need? Is 20w50 too thick? Do i need a 10 or 15?
Is the Valvoline classic a shit oil to use?

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#6 _Muzzy_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 01:28 PM

It would appear to be a lifter issue bleeding back, I have just gone thru the same issue and posted here, I changed them and problem is still the same or a tad better, I have been told this is typical of all new lifters as the clearances are not as tight as old style so they bleed back quicker

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#7 _judgelj_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 01:56 PM

All of which makes sense... But, can we help the issue with oil? Is it perhaps a case of the oil we use being too viscous for the new style lifters upon start up.

What oil were you using?

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#8 TerrA LX

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 02:08 PM

Ah, you say the lifter is noisy for 30 seconds on cold start, when the oil will be thickest?
Lifter is quiet after warm up and restart after not too long of cooling down completely?
Sounds like adjustment or worn valve train to me moreover viscosity.

Valvoline 20/50 should be fine.

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#9 _Muzzy_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 03:22 PM

I tried 30-60 problem was worst, 20-50 as pictured. Problem was better I changed to 15-40 and have 3-5 secs after standing overnight, this is where I have stayed at this stage, hope this helps

Edited by Muzzy, 10 July 2014 - 03:23 PM.

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#10 _judgelj_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

Worn or incorrectly adjusted? Well the cam and lifters are brand new. Could it be bad pre load on the rocker arms?

I might try a 15w40.

Has anyone tried this Valvoline classic? Is it a crap oil. Can i give it a go at least? Its half price at the moment im thinking of just buying it to test. Cant be worse that the shit thats in there!

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#11 _Muzzy_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 05:55 PM

Mine is running on a 15-40 gulf western crap oil, until it runs a few more ks up
I hear you mine is also new lifters and new cam and cam gear and full rebuilt engine with 001plus bearing
And there is no adjustment on 202, as long as you are running a billet cam inner base circle will be same , so lifter preload will be correct

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#12 _Muzzy_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 06:02 PM

Something we all forget in the 1970's the best oil was a SE rated oil mineral so a cheap crap oil to run an engine in will be way better than this

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#13 _Macca97_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

im running 20w-50 GTX mainly because, its all i had at the time, i get a rattle for about 30 seconds, no matter what, if its been 20minutes or a week,

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#14 _Red One_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 07:37 PM

Got good oil pressure??

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#15 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:11 PM

Trying to stop the clatter with a different oil will always be a trade-off. Thick oil will let the engine sit for longer before the lifters collapse, but it also means it'll clatter for longer when you start it. Thin oil will let the lifters collapse quicker, but they'll pump up again quicker too. And ironically modern oils are probably going to be worse than the old ones that quickly built up a coat of varnish inside the lifter body.

The best solution if it's really bugging you is probably this:

Adjust your rockers down till they are nearly bottomed in their travel, back them up a bit, then when they bleed down overnight, they only have a little bit to take up and bingo, FIXED.

Edited by oldjohnno, 10 July 2014 - 08:11 PM.

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#16 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:17 PM

Or you could just grow a pair and get a solid stick? THat way the rattle is normal

"Horsepower rattles" oh how i love thee.

Cheers.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 10 July 2014 - 08:18 PM.

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#17 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:22 PM

Or you could just grow a pair and get a solid stick?

Or throw out the hydraulic lifters and use solids on the existing cam, set as tight as you dare - say 8 - 10 thou. It works.

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#18 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:30 PM

Poor mans way to get a very quick accelerating solid cam?

TMK Hydraulic profiles tend to have quicker lift and closing ramps?

Cheers.

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#19 _judgelj_

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:47 AM

Mine is running on a 15-40 gulf western crap oil, until it runs a few more ks up
I hear you mine is also new lifters and new cam and cam gear and full rebuilt engine with 001plus bearing
And there is no adjustment on 202, as long as you are running a billet cam inner base circle will be same , so lifter preload will be correct

I have a 186 head on my two o two. And i cant remember if it started happening post broken rocker stud, or not. In other words, did it happened when i had to readjust my rocker pre load.

Trying to stop the clatter with a different oil will always be a trade-off. Thick oil will let the engine sit for longer before the lifters collapse, but it also means it'll clatter for longer when you start it. Thin oil will let the lifters collapse quicker, but they'll pump up again quicker too. And ironically modern oils are probably going to be worse than the old ones that quickly built up a coat of varnish inside the lifter body.

The best solution if it's really bugging you is probably this:

Is that a bit risky? How much is all the way bottomed out? I think i had about 1 a 3/4 turn on all of mine. Is that sufficient?

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#20 RallyRed

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:25 PM

from a different angle?......put a kill switch in your ignition circuit.....that way you can crank it over for 10 secs, get some oil pressure...then flick the switch and fire it up.

I see guys with good engines do this more for engine longevity than rattle.

p.s. I just invented this in my head...not sure if it will work,......others??

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#21 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

Ign of my LJ has always been on a toggle, and this is how i have always done it.

Cheers.

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#22 RallyRed

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:31 PM

I feel smart now Bomber.....if its good enough for you, then I reckon its a goer.

p.s. I didn't really think of it , saw 2ELCS fire up his nice LC at Bathurst the other day...that's how he did it.

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#23 _judgelj_

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 09:12 PM

I have a kill switch for the ignition but it grounds the coil and is not good for electronic ignition.

Still a good idea, but the trade off is that i look like my car doesnt start!