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Red Head on Black Block

Red Head Black Block Black 202 Black 3.3 Yella Terra Head

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#1 _ute64_

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:52 PM

Hi,

I recently purchased a Black 3.3 short motor bored out to 3.695 with Hemi pistons, electronic ignition and a XU1- Grind Cam and was wanting to put my Yella Terra head off of my old Red Engine on it.

I know that I have to drill out for the water jackets, should I drill out the block to line up with the head or drill out the head to line up with the block?

Does anything else need to be done to either the head or the block to make them compatible?

I would really like to keep a red head on the engine just for the variety of heads and manifolds I am able to choose from.

I am also unsure as to what carby / exhaust to run. My current red is a pretty stock 186 bar the yella terra head and electronic ignition and I have a WW Stromberg and 186s headers on it, I really don't think this combo will be adequate for the new engine. I have a set of triple SU's I was thinking of putting on but didn't know if they would be more hassle than they are worth or should I go with a 350 - 500 Holley or even a 600 Holley?

Any help or advice would be really appreciated,

Cheers.

 



#2 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:53 PM

Gday mate. 

 

To answer your questions somewhat in order, to the best of my limited knowlege...

 

Firstly, wow thats a frOcking big overbore. I'd be a bit careful revving it, keep it under 5k personally, really probably not a good thing but give it a go it might be ok. 

 

Whether to drill the block or drill the head will depend on the gasket you intend to use. In my thread "holden six cylinder head 101" I show a few different gaskets and explain the differences, and try to explain how you would choose which to drill. 

 

http://www.gmh-toran...inder-head-101/

 

You can tap and plug the block/head if you wish, but i dont think this is needed if you have the right gasket. 

 

I use Durapro items. 

 

The rest should be fine. Depending on what your YT head is suited to it will have either adjustable rockers or bridge type rockers, these two need different length pushrods, this is also explained in the above thread. A 186 would generally have adjustable type but seeing the head is not the original item this could be different, best check up and report back. 

 

As far as carb and manifold, with a small cam like that the headers and carb you have should be ok. 

 

I would atleast get it up and running with that combo. 

 

If you have the SU's laying around they could be worth considering, they are a brilliant setup, easy to tune, easy to maintain, and the constant velocity setup is so good on the street. But only good when there nicely rebuilt, new bushes in the throttleshaft, and have a good linkage setup. Depending on what condition yourse are in now expect to spent upwards of $1500 rebuilding them and setting them up. May be less, if there good, i cant see them, and you gave no info, so i cant comment more. 

 

Holleys are good to, when there freshly kitted, there easy to dial in. I'd go atleast a 500, though these perform better with the 12 port head and the factory carb manifold with the carb base spun 90 degrees so the throttle blades face the wrong way. No off the shelf manifolds at this point face the carb the correct way, possibly part of the reason Holleys have a bad reputation on these engines. 

 

The 4bbl 600 would certainly be on the high end of the carbs for your setup, the SU's you can get away with being a touch overcarbed because there constant velocity, at the same time the vac sec 600 you can get away with a bit with accelerator pump and secondary spring tuning to bring the carb back a bit to suit the engine. Again they need to be spun around on the manifold. 

 

A 465 spun around would be a good option. Holley carb ratings are a bit funny, they rate the 2bbl and 4bbl carbs differently, a 465 4bbl actually flows a fair bit more than a 500 2bbl in the real world. 

 

Hope this helps a bit, or atleast helps you hone in your questions a bit. Feel free to ask if anythigns unclear. 

 

Cheers. 



#3 _Muzzy_

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 10:03 PM

I did the other way round, blue head onto red block, so the answer is drill and tap the blue water ports fit grub screws, then using a red head gasket. As a template, drill new water holes into the block, either side of the head bolts don the carb side of the engine

#4 _ute64_

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

Sorry, I meant that the bore size was 3.695 making it around 208ci - 209ci engine. Not that it is now a 3.696 litre. Is that still a pretty big bore size for a Black 202?

Thanks heaps for the info about the Carby's, I love the idea of the triples but for a nice couple of weekends a year car I am steering more towards a Holley. I will see how much work the triples need to get them like new before i make that decision.

Cheers



#5 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:29 PM

Yes i took you as meaning the engine was .070" overbore.

Personally i would never go that far.

I really wouldnt rev it.

Cheers.

#6 _stretchlc_

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:49 PM

Aussiespeed have just made an adapter that bolts to the existing 4 barrell mounting plate and converts the flange to accept a Holley spun 90 degrees...I think Stinga just got one actually!!



#7 Stinga

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:59 PM

indeed he did.....

 

4E1F0AA9-B5AC-4786-8BEA-8F17369135F7_zps

 

D842B36C-7FEB-48EC-A6D4-3BBA242898E7_zps



#8 _stretchlc_

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:02 PM

Look at that pretty blow thru booster would ya!!.....cheers for the prompt upload champ!



#9 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:02 PM

Yes but im not fond of the aussiespeed manifolds. 

 

Suppose its an improvement, but they should have designed the frOcking things properly in the first place, there shoudl be no reason for you to spend money on a seperate adapter to get it how it should have been from day dot. 

 

Cheers. 



#10 _stretchlc_

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:10 PM

Was just to let those know that theres an adapter available to save re drilling and adding alloy to your aftermarket manifold in order to spin a Holley sideways. True........Mark should have cast a heap to give those the option to run their carb in either configuration.



#11 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:15 PM

Why would you run it the normal way?

I have no idea why it was done wrong for so long, I think its because the factory 2bbl carbs faced that way, even though the butterflies opened to the side of the carb instead of longways to the carb like a Holley does, so the aftermarket guys at the time just ran with it. 

 

If Mark put any thought whatsoever into the manifold he would have rectified this off the batt. 

 

Cheers. 



#12 _Lazarus_

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 10:24 PM

Besides Redline does anyone else make a 4bbl manifold for a 12 port ?



#13 warrenm

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:12 AM

Sorry, I meant that the bore size was 3.695 making it around 208ci - 209ci engine. Not that it is now a 3.696 litre. Is that still a pretty big bore size for a Black 202?

Thanks heaps for the info about the Carby's, I love the idea of the triples but for a nice couple of weekends a year car I am steering more towards a Holley. I will see how much work the triples need to get them like new before i make that decision.

Cheers

A std 202 is 3.625" bore +.060" is 208ci which is as big as I would personally bore a 202, but if it doesn't run hot It'll be ok. As for running a red head on a blue/black block, I just drill the new holes to suit the red gasket & the gasket seals the unused holes in the block. 



#14 _bathurst-racer_

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:47 PM

I did exactly what Warren said on my XU-1. It hasn't had any problems on the strip re overheating or water leaks.



#15 N/A-PWR

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:47 PM

Hello Ute64 and All,

 

didn't Holden make 0.080" over pistons and rings ( 210, I wonder how they went? ),

 

also Member 'parap187' did the 9 port Red Head on a Black Block,

 

made a Youtube Vid of it going ( made private now ),

 

and Nathan didn't block off the other water Jacket holes,

 

and said the Red Gasket blocked them no worries.



#16 _J.A.W._

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:57 PM

You've all heard stories about 'special order' blocks, factory cast - for comp purposes - with thicker metal in strategic areas..







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