493 replies to this topic

[8d11p]

"I don't think there is a database of anything GMH produced that contains cassis numbers".

 

Up until early 1973, the Holden Torana had both a body number and a chassis number.  

 

'Till then neither of these numbers matched.   In later LJ Torana's the numbers matched.

 

There are guys on this forum who have been dedicated enough to have recorded that information, and realistically would have more knowledge than any Holden Management in assessing the likelihood of credibility of these older cars. 

 

Perhaps the non matching Chassis to Body numbered cars will become the cars less questioned, and this number information will become the new (hopefully secret) VIN DISC!!

Edited by 8d11p, 05 October 2014 - 10:07 PM.

[S pack]

"I don't think there is a database of anything GMH produced that contains cassis numbers".

 

Up until early 1973, the Holden Torana had both a body number and a chassis number.  

 

'Till then neither of these numbers matched.   In later LJ Torana's the numbers matched.

 

There are guys on this forum who have been dedicated enough to have recorded that information, and realistically would have more knowledge than any Holden Management in assessing the likelihood of credibility of these older cars. 

 

Perhaps the non matching Chassis to Body numbered cars will become the cars less questioned, and this number information will become the new (hopefully secret) VIN DISC!!

No LJ had matching body and chassis numbers. The Body number and the PSN were aligned but the chassis number still did not match.

This alignment of the PSN and the body number carried through into the LH series and onwards.

Edited by S pack, 05 October 2014 - 10:12 PM.

[REDA9X]

Sadly, the person involved and his mate has all the A9X records as well

A relevant article in todays Age Newspaper...

 

http://www.theage.co...?skin=text-only

 

From reading it, part of the article may be of relevance this thread.

 

An paragraph in the article reads...

 

The organised crime gang had found the data base of chassis and engine numbers of rare Australian muscle cars such Torana XU-1s and Ford GTHOs. 

 

I remember when the Vin Disc became freely available many thought that having the information out in the world would deter such scams.  

 

Perhaps it was safer for all when the VIN Disc was only held by a select few, such as HG350 who generously gave up their time.

[8d11p]

S pack

 

weirdly,  me being wrong makes me a kinda right.

 

This website has the knowledge and information and those that pass on legitimate and informative information seem to have no agenda.  

 

Really,  this site should continue to be rated highly as where to go for information.

Edited by 8d11p, 05 October 2014 - 10:47 PM.

[8d11p]

S pack

 

from that, does it mean that the body/chassis number mismatch can become another step in legitimating a car once an idea of the sequence (albeit maybe somewhat random due to various models) is known.

Edited by 8d11p, 05 October 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[S pack]

S pack

 

from that, does it mean that the body/chassis number mismatch can become another step in legitimating a car once an idea of the sequence (albeit maybe somewhat random due to various models) is known.

Once you have collected a large enough database of body and chassis numbers spread over the production run of a particular model then it should become easier to predict what the chassis number and/or body number might be for a given PSN.

[8d11p]

There is forum member who's car was produced in the same factory within a day or so of mine. The body/chassis/PSN AND Vin Disc numbers all make sequential sense between these two cars.

Therefore, this GMH unrecorded (or unreleased) number, could be a step to assisting in the proving of the cars.

Would that not mean that who did not wish to submit to registers etc would not need to as this unrecorded/unreleased number maybe the undocumented key...:as long as the data base is large enough of course

[yel327]

A statutory write off means a vehicle can't be repaired to a safe standard, regardless of age or the cost of repair.

 

Not the case Dave. You can repair a Stat writeoff in some circumstances. You had to first own the car, and then it has to be older than a certain age. 

There is forum member who's car was produced in the same factory within a day or so of mine. The body/chassis/PSN AND Vin Disc numbers all make sequential sense between these two cars.

Therefore, this GMH unrecorded (or unreleased) number, could be a step to assisting in the proving of the cars.

Would that not mean that who did not wish to submit to registers etc would not need to as this unrecorded/unreleased number maybe the undocumented key...:as long as the data base is large enough of course

 

Normally this doesn't work as you need access to HQ-HZ, Bedford, Chev truck etc records too. Then the correlation will vary between body and assembly plants. This is a good thing as it makes it far harder for shonks.

[WhiteA9XS]

 A little birdy tells me that the people involved in this racket has a close alliance with somebody that works in vicroads motor registry .

 

 You wouldn,t use a chassis number currently in use .      

[a9x868]

A little birdy tells me that the people involved in this racket has a close alliance with somebody that works in vicroads motor registry .
 
 You wouldn,t use a chassis number currently in use . 

i wonder how many cars and how long this has been going on?
if vicroads computer system is anything like the coppers
then hopefully the powers that be can backtrack on this persons use of the system
and find the vehicles involved!
just a thought!
hope these people are convicted for fraud
and they get what,s coming
not some lame good behaviour bond
as i foresee some unfortunate things happening to the
unsuspecting buyers of these fake vehicles and the vehicles as well.

[DanWA]

Stop at no end to destroy them, scum.

[yel327]

 A little birdy tells me that the people involved in this racket has a close alliance with somebody that works in vicroads motor registry .

 

 You wouldn,t use a chassis number currently in use .      

 

Now that starts to make more sense. They could backtrack from the engine number to the chassis number and then recreate the car's identity. Would only work though for those cars with the PSN as the body number which covers the later XU1's from Acacia Ridge and all LH-LX. No good for Elizabeth cars though.

[WhiteA9XS]

Now that starts to make more sense. They could backtrack from the engine number to the chassis number and then recreate the car's identity. Would only work though for those cars with the PSN as the body number which covers the later XU1's from Acacia Ridge and all LH-LX. No good for Elizabeth cars though.

 

 Find a psn number from the fiche or vin disc gives you an engine number , search for the engine number at the registry dept , there would be a link to chassis number going back to first registration.   

[hainzy]

So everyones talking PSN numbers.. Is this the same as a chassis number or is this something different? I always thought there was only the chassis number on the comp plate and chassis, the body number on the comp plate, and the engine number on the engine? Am I missing something or is this some of that stonecutters secret handshake info?

[Collo]

PSN is part of the VIN

[yel327]

So everyones talking PSN numbers.. Is this the same as a chassis number or is this something different? I always thought there was only the chassis number on the comp plate and chassis, the body number on the comp plate, and the engine number on the engine? Am I missing something or is this some of that stonecutters secret handshake info?

 

The PSN is the most important number for GMH, it is how the Service/Warranty reports were indexed. As said above it is essentially the VIN suffix (minus the series letter on the end for later cars). There are:

 

Chassis number

Assembly plant tracking number (Pagewood only).

PSN

Body number (same as PSN for maybe 30-40% of all cars we are interested in here).

Engine number.

[8d11p]

The Chassis number is the number stamped in the LH guard and that number should appear on the ADR "tag".

 

The PSN number (part of the VIN after the L1/H2 etc) is the Production Serial Number.  It was used for all internal GM-H vehicle correspondence from construction to warranty

 

My understanding is that there is no correlation between the PSN No.  and the  Body No. (on the Body Identification Plate) until the later part of 1973.   (Please correct me if I am wrong re the date).

 

There does not seem to be any official record of the Body No. vs Chassis No. prior to the later part of 1973.   However as S pack has posted the numbers can be predicted once a data base has been compiled.  

 

This site appears to have compiled such a data base.  I guess if you are going to buy a car, this may be a good place to start the authentication process.

[holdentoranaman]

if people from the forum are implicated in this scam will they be named and shamed ?as i am sure there are buyers on here that would be affected and potentially not know.

[Ice]

if people from the forum are implicated in this scam will they be named and shamed ?as i am sure there are buyers on here that would be affected and potentially not know.

All in good time

[yel327]

The Chassis number is the number stamped in the LH guard and that number should appear on the ADR "tag".

The PSN number (part of the VIN after the L1/H2 etc) is the Production Serial Number. It was used for all internal GM-H vehicle correspondence from construction to warranty

My understanding is that there is no correlation between the PSN No. and the Body No. (on the Body Identification Plate) until the later part of 1973. (Please correct me if I am wrong re the date).

There does not seem to be any official record of the Body No. vs Chassis No. prior to the later part of 1973. However as S pack has posted the numbers can be predicted once a data base has been compiled.

This site appears to have compiled such a data base. I guess if you are going to buy a car, this may be a good place to start the authentication process.

There is some correlation between body, psn and chassis numbers at some times at some plants but very hard to know, impossible if you only have Torana data. Even if someone does figure it out the Service/Warranty records don't contain all cars so the numbers get screwed up. It is something i'll never reveal - the reason being the subject of this thread. Knowing how and when numbers align has helped me to spot a few dodgy numbered Sandmans over the years (with these it is normally mixed up ID plates to turn a 3 seater into 2 not dodgy plates). But there is no way this sort of info should be public or what you see now with LC-J will happen with LH-LX or HQ-HZ. Apart from this illegal stuff going on in Victoria we've all had to endure the BS sprouting from a few people here and all over the 'web trying to change history to suit their own needs, mostly based upon having the LC-LJ Service/Warranty report. I doubt LH-LX owners want the same thing to happen with theirs.

[Bazza]

My understanding is that there is no correlation between the PSN No.  and the  Body No. (on the Body Identification Plate) until the later part of 1973.   (Please correct me if I am wrong re the date).

 

Hi

 

In respect of Brisbane built vehicles only, the Body Number began to be derived from the PSN around the 8th to the 10th of May 1973.

 

Cheers

 

Bazza