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Ring busted over Fake Musclecars in Melbourne

Started by Bazza , Sep 20 2014 06:51 PM

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#201 _sunburst73-xu1_

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 10:53 AM

 It took me years to find all 5 previous owners of one of my xu1,s , our government was a great help with its privacy laws ! lol

 

 It was like detective work , each owner who I eventually tracked down through white pages and google searches , such and such had the mechanic shop in Gladesville , so I,d ring every mechanical shop in Gladesville, etc .

 

I found this a very enjoyable and interesting part of owning my car , there was a little story with every previous owner , how one owner had imported a special fan belt from the states as the aussie ones kept coming off .

 

All this information and previous photo,s etc are on file and are part of the car , added value and homework completed . 

 

However maybe we are all different humans  , I don,t care about the little black clip that should be green and the concourse side of the car , as long as the car looks good and is mechanically perfect.

 

 

I'm happy for you Shaun

 

Unfortunately for me I came up with dead ends for my car when I tryed to find out history for it and now to top it off the previous,previous owner is now deceased.


Edited by sunburst73-xu1, 04 October 2014 - 10:54 AM.

#202 WhiteA9XS

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:14 AM

 Thanks Dano ,

 

 Yep I understand , I came to a dead end with the A9x,s first owner , poor bugger was killed in a speedway bike accident ...

 

 The xu1 I got stuck on the 3rd previous owner too , so I worked from the first owner and found the 3rd owner last .

 

 I just feel that any history you can get on your car helps to identify it as been undisputable the real thing .

 

 BTW  , you have a great car , saw it before you bought it and again at toranafest last year , fantastic work .

 

Cheers  


#203 _sunburst73-xu1_

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:59 AM

 Thanks Dano ,

 

 Yep I understand , I came to a dead end with the A9x,s first owner , poor bugger was killed in a speedway bike accident ...

 

 The xu1 I got stuck on the 3rd previous owner too , so I worked from the first owner and found the 3rd owner last .

 

 I just feel that any history you can get on your car helps to identify it as been undisputable the real thing .

 

 BTW  , you have a great car , saw it before you bought it and again at toranafest last year , fantastic work .

 

Cheers  

 

 

Cheers thanks for the compliment.

 

I would love to find more history on my car but as I said it all has come to dead ends.

 

The deceased previous owner told me very little detail at the time,I've tryed history checks in both states that came up zip.

 

I even rang some people with the same name as the deceased in the the area that he lived in that said they didn't even know him, so again dead end.

 

If I ever got the smallest of leads I would do my best to find out more.

 

Anyway back to the topic.

 

cheers


#204 _GTR_069_

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 12:33 PM

Dane you car is one the most beautiful car, sad to hear of the search of its history

 

Sadly in the case of clone cars its tough with modern technology that the clones become bloody hard to pick

 

Then there are the a@#eholes who make a fortune of our passion

 

Its also sad to know there is grubs amongst us that cash in too

 

History and original cars are still out there, I 100% agree if you can't track the history to back it up steep carefully, do your checks and get a honest professional too look over it, even a second opinion helps too
 

I started a register a few years ago on a final production car, the company released a limited edition of 500 at the end, with in 2 years people were already making fakes and cashing in on the thousands the limited editions were pulling, after much pressure and persistence I managed to get a list of all 500 chassis numbers, along with the factory tell tales, these are recorded for the future already in 14 years since the end I have saved many potential buyers money

 

Now these LE's are fetching twice the retail when new in mint condition,

 

I hate scammers to say the least


#205 WhiteA9XS

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 01:52 PM

 Would you pay a fee to get a full detailed ownership history report on your car ? say 500 , remember it only has to be done once ....

 

 Lets say someone had access to national motor registries database (rta ,vicroads , etc) and the electorol database for current contacts for classic cars built in the 70,s of names , addresses, phone numbers , engine and chassis numbers , dates of disposal etc.

 

 And that person could make contact with previous owners for information which is on the report , accident history etc .  

 

 This would go a long way to stamp out and make it very hard for those trying to sell rebirths . the rebodied car is all of a sudden caught out as it finished its life known in the report . 

 

 I know there are privacy laws but it could deter the bad boys . 


#206 rexy

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 06:38 PM

All of this trouble exist because people place a premium on these cars. If we all became interested in modified cars it would all go away....

#207 8d11p

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 07:48 PM

A relevant article in todays Age Newspaper...

 

http://www.theage.co...?skin=text-only

 

From reading it, part of the article may be of relevance this thread.

 

An paragraph in the article reads...

 

The organised crime gang had found the data base of chassis and engine numbers of rare Australian muscle cars such Torana XU-1s and Ford GTHOs. 

 

I remember when the Vin Disc became freely available many thought that having the information out in the world would deter such scams.  

 

Perhaps it was safer for all when the VIN Disc was only held by a select few, such as HG350 who generously gave up their time.


#208 yel327

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 08:17 PM

That is how it is for other series. The select few don't have a VIN disc, they have microfiche.


#209 RallyRed

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 08:24 PM

I could be wrong....but the problem with only a few having the VIN disc or other relevant data is.....they may be the bad guys...and no one else would know any better.?

p.s. not for one minute suggesting this is the case at present.

#210 WhiteA9XS

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 08:51 PM

 More than meets the eye here I think ..

 

 Thanks for sharing the article 8dp11 , interesting read ...


#211 StephenSLR

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 09:27 PM

There is no official death certificate for a car at the end of its life.

 

^ THIS !!!!!!

 

s


#212 Shiney005

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 11:35 AM

It is good to see the authorities are actually putting a bit of thought and effort into this. So who is the poor bastard with a collection of fake musclecars?


#213 yel327

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 02:01 PM

I don't think there is a database of anything GMH produced that contains chassis numbers. Even the original IBM 360 database didn't have chassis numbers afaik so they must be talking about the Fords in that respect.


#214 _GTR_069_

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 02:29 PM

Trust me , the production car I was referring to was the Classic Mini, finished production after 41 years was 14 years ago on the 4th October, since the last one rolled off the line, Rover didn't give a rats either it was my persistence and passion that I finally got the list of chassis numbers,

 

14 years on there still shit fights and people trying to find out more information, I was smart enough to document everything, we have sourced original data records and has taken months to sift through trying to find out more information

 

Again its a crystal ball, yes in the 60s 70s and 80s cars didn't have any monetary value so history and recording wasn't a concern, the 90's and forward is when they became valuable, and that's all too late, look at us, do we document the Final GT Falcon, or the Soon to be released final GTS, or go back a few years the Monaro's did we document the chassis numbers of CV8's and CV6's, the HSV versions

 

We have a CV6 and personally know they are rarer then a CV8 but really how many were made, ????

 

It starts now if people want to change the future and secure the history we need to document the facts, a State Representative form each states Car Club Group, A member of each Registration Body, Car Makers History Departments and  Police, work together form a register of common facts, not fiction, big job yes but don't sook of you don't wont to get ripped off

 

 

 

 


#215 kiwi-lilj

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 03:13 PM

I would love to know who you think should be in charge of issuing "death certificates" and what criteria your car would have to meet to become DEAD.

#216 StephenSLR

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 03:32 PM

I would love to know who you think should be in charge of issuing "death certificates"

 

Insurance companies.

 

 

what criteria your car would have to meet to become DEAD.

 

Write offs, cars so badly damaged they can only to be sold for spares, cars sent to the crusher, etc.  In the USA there are cars that have a salvage title, you can sell them but you can't register them.

 

s


Edited by StephenSLR, 05 October 2014 - 03:34 PM.

#217 xu2308

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 03:56 PM

I don't think there is a database of anything GMH produced that contains chassis numbers. Even the original IBM 360 database didn't have chassis numbers afaik so they must be talking about the Fords in that respect.

. I reckon they Ment the PSN numbers and not the Chassis number ????

#218 yel327

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 04:19 PM

It'd have to be Al. Having them is one thing too. You still have to be able to interpret the data and then come up with a chassis number and in some cases firewall number (Pagewood HQ-HZ). Then get the right plates made, including the right factory "mistakes" for each time period. To be honest if someone still managed to get all this, then the remade plates would still stand out like dogs proverbials - all the remade plates I've seen are full of errors plus the stuff built into the plates so they are obvious as copies. So in the end I don't think it is fake cars that are the issue, if people are fooled by these then they are obviously foolish with their money. It is cars constructed from original bits using donor bodies that are most likely to fool people, but some of these it is arguable what is right and wrong. Take a rusty HQ GTS 350 coupe. Get another GTS coupe body, and use the original rails. Nothing is different, if you were to repair the rusty one the ID tags would have to come off in any case to replace the cowl. The body's identity is on the rails not the body. I know today this isn't viewed as a good thing, but it is how they were repaired into the 90's. My guess is for some of them you'd never even know.


#219 S pack

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:56 PM

I would love to know who you think should be in charge of issuing "death certificates" and what criteria your car would have to meet to become DEAD.

We already have a system in place for declaring a car as 'dead', it's called a Statutory Write Off and decided by your insurance company (if you have insurance of course). A Statutory Write Off can never be re-registered.


#220 wot179

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 07:30 PM

I was told recently by Shannons that they only issue a stat write off on cars over 10 years old. This was after they wrote off my 15 year old Pulsar. I got to buy it back for $250 and on sell it with its rego in place.

#221 S pack

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 08:41 PM

A statutory write off means a vehicle can't be repaired to a safe standard, regardless of age or the cost of repair.


#222 wot179

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 08:49 PM

I know what it means.

 

Im just passing on the comment from the assessor.

 

I was pretty surprised.


#223 rodomo

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 08:56 PM

"Back in the day" statutory write offs didn't exist.

 

Long draw out argument if you like but cut "n" shuts were legal.............................."back in the day"

 

And I'd be pretty sure some of these cars are still LEGALLY running around today.

 

Gawd I'm glad mine is just an "S"


Edited by rodomo, 05 October 2014 - 09:00 PM.

#224 xu2308

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 09:39 PM

Cut and shuts are still legal as long as they are done in a safe manner, to Australian Safety Standards, and the car is still the car by law, unless this has change in the last few years, as far as I know it's still the case, as long as it's done for a major repair and nothing fraudulent etc.

Edited by xu2308, 05 October 2014 - 09:51 PM.

#225 S pack

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 09:59 PM

Pretty sure cut 'n' shuts have not been an acceptable repair method in QLD for a number of years now.


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