125 replies to this topic

[xu2308]

Potta

I think just impound there car longer for repeat offenders, its not the cars fault its the drivers fault is it not.

[Uncle Chop Chop]

Potta

I think just impound there car longer for repeat offenders, its not the cars fault its the drivers fault is it not.

A lot of these idiots don't learn from a slap on the wrist and a "don't do it again" message from a magistrate. If the driver has one less car, he has one less opportunity to re-offend.

[S pack]

A lot of these idiots don't learn from a slap on the wrist and a "don't do it again" message from a magistrate. If the driver has one less car, he has one less opportunity to re-offend.

Be extremely careful to whom you may loan your car, lest it end up impounded or worse still, crushed.

[Rockoz]

Rob, I tried to ignore your post to me, but you got me , so here goes...........   Rob, have you ever been booked for speeding??,  and if you have you were very irresponsible, and if you have been booked for speeding twice, you are obviously an idiot, because you never learnt ....  me personally,  I have a perfect driving record, and have completed a defensive driving course, that allows me to drive outside of the norm. (so I think anyway ... ) so I should be allowed to perform obviously dangerous burnouts in relative safety......   hell I watch the NASCAR driver do it all the time ....  It's easy, one foot on the brake, one one the throttle ....  but some people (maybe you, by the look of your car, should not take these crazy risks) .....  and leave it to the professionals........        

 

Ian. No offence was taken.
 

I can see you point. Have had the discussion with others over a beer on many ocassions.

 

2 problems.

1st that wasnt the subject of the thread.

 

2nd.

This is the really hard one.

How do you go about allowing someone with more skills than Joe Blow to do these extra things?

Would there be a licencing scheme, and how would you qualify?

 

The way our society works is they come up with something that the worst qualified and experienced person is able to reasonably handle.

Then we all have to abide by that.

Its not just driving.

Its every part of society.

 

Yes I have been booked a few times for speeding. Never argued with the cop either about the fine or the offence. I knew the risks of my actions and copped it sweet when I got caught.

[xu2308]

A lot of these idiots don't learn from a slap on the wrist and a "don't do it again" message from a magistrate. If the driver has one less car, he has one less opportunity to re-offend.

Still no need to crush the car, Jail may be the answer

[Rockoz]

Ive had the misfortune to be a passenger in a car when the driver was so incompetent to be scary.

This bloke was a danger on the road to himself and others.

 

I have also been passenger in a car with a driver who had consumed a few bevvies.

He was safer than the other driver at all levels.I however do not condone drink driving. Ever.

 

There are drivers of different abilities but we all have to conform to the same rules.

It isnt fair on those who have spent the extra dollars and time attending advanced driving courses and actually learning how to handle their vehicles.

 

Speed limits on open roads are a point. Little traffic. The educated driver can handle some extra speed.

 

I have been in a position where I was able to travel legally at speeds above what is posted. I have the training and awareness to be able to do so competently. I am sure there are others on this forum who have more training and experience than I have as well.

 

The public got the shits with people doing burnouts.

The Police and the politicians got together with some paper pushers and came up with something they could do about it.

Generally speaking a burnout is a relatively harmless thing.
But every day I drive past a tree around the corner that a car doing a burnout hit.

2 people in that car are no longer with us.

So they are not entirely harmless.

 

Personally I believe that we need a better driver education scheme.

All drivers should learn how to control cars a lot better than they do now.

But no politician will ever be game enough to legislate for that.

 

I am no angel myself.

I have been known to do socially irresponsible things.

I still have a point to point record that hopefully no one will ever attempt to better.

It was done a long time ago.

[S pack]

Speed limits on open roads are a point. Little traffic. The educated driver can handle some extra speed.

 

I have been in a position where I was able to travel legally at speeds above what is posted. I have the training and awareness to be able to do so competently. I am sure there are others on this forum who have more training and experience than I have as well.

 

The public got the shits with people doing burnouts.

The Police and the politicians got together with some paper pushers and came up with something they could do about it.

Generally speaking a burnout is a relatively harmless thing.

What kicked the whole push for 'hooning' legislation off in Qld was not so much 'burnouts' but illegal drag racing on the streets at the Gold Coast.

Other anti social driving activities were then added. The most notable piece of rubbish was 'CRUISING'

Edited by S pack, 03 November 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Tyre biter]

...
It isnt fair on those who have spent the extra dollars and time attending advanced driving courses and actually learning how to handle their vehicles.

...Speed limits on open roads are a point. Little traffic. The educated driver can handle some extra speed.


...Personally I believe that we need a better driver education scheme.
All drivers should learn how to control cars a lot better than they do now.
But no politician will ever be game enough to legislate for that.

Not citing you specifically Rockoz but the stats are against this argument - those undertaking 'driver training' have worse collision records thereafter than those who do not. This is why (typically) graduates of courses do not get a discount on their insurance.
Cheers, TB

Edited by Tyre biter, 03 November 2014 - 07:54 PM.

[Steve TPF]

Politicians don't want driver education - they want tough laws and lots of lovely revenue. Despite what they claim, they don't want people to stop speeding - state governments would lose hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

[Uncle Chop Chop]

Still no need to crush the car, Jail may be the answer

I stayed overnight for being drunk and disorderly in a public place. People who kill when drunk driving get maybe 18 months and are out in 12. How many days do you think these guys would get? And it would probably be fully suspended.

 

Anyway, crush or sell, it does slow them down a bit. Especially if they still owed money on it.

[Redzone]

Not citing you specifically Rockoz but the stats are against this argument - those undertaking 'driver training' have worse collision records thereafter than those who do not. This is why (typically) graduates of courses do not get a discount on their insurance.
Cheers, TB

I can't remember where I saw this, but the stats you mention were analysed by an independent body & were discounted. When I'm back on my computer I'll see if I can find the article. Plus AAMI & a few others do have discounted rates for drivers who have done defensive driving courses IIRC.

[S pack]

The Type 2 hoon laws target repeat offenders

who are charged with multiple offences

in one of five categories:

• Driving an unregistered and uninsured

motor vehicle

• Driving while unlicenced or disqualified

• Drink driving over 0.15

• Failing to supply a specimen of

breath or blood, or driving under

24-hour suspension

• Driving an illegally modified vehicle.

 

OMG, some poor old Granny who forgot to pay her rego is a HOON.

 

The general public seem to think these laws only apply to drivers (esp young males) performing idiotic and dangerous acts on our roads, everyone should think again.

[Rockoz]

I love statistics.

They are the biggest excuse for telling lies and getting away with it.

Give 3 interest groups the exact same raw data and get them to analyse it and come up with their statistical information.

The same raw data will give 3 entirely different results depending on what the analysists wish to project.

The raw data too is often wrong.

I used to have a little bit to do with some crash investigations.

Surprised me how often speed was cited as a factor in a crash when there was no evidence to support that conclusion.

Another great one is the smoking lobby.

They will count hospital admissions due to smoking even though smoking wasnt a contributing factor in the admission.

Just because you stated you were a smoker you come up in those statistics.

 

It would take an absolute fool to say that a better trained driver is a bigger risk on the road.

When I did my first course, the instructor said that we would probably be more likely to get booked for speeding.

And that in the event of a crash we would be more likely to have a minor crash than major crash.

His reasoning was that we had more likelihood of being in more control of the events than someone with less experience.

[Shiney005]

Despite what they claim, they don't want people to stop speeding - state governments would lose hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

The government shouting out "Hoon cars will be crushed", just made it easier to get these laws passed. The intention was always to sell the cars. Not crush them. Money money money.
 
 

I love statistics.
They are the biggest excuse for telling lies and getting away with it.
Surprised me how often speed was cited as a factor in a crash when there was no evidence to support that conclusion.
Another great one is the smoking lobby.
They will count hospital admissions due to smoking even though smoking wasnt a contributing factor in the admission.
Just because you stated you were a smoker you come up in those statistics.

They ask, "How fast was car A going when it hit car B? 80kph in a 80kph zone. Well if he was travelling at 60kph, neither driver would have died. Therefore speed was a factor with both of these cars."
 
It would take an absolute fool to say that a better trained driver is a bigger risk on the road.

Or that a four point harness is more dangerous than a lap sash seat belt. (Been done for that one)

[Rockoz]

The 4 point harness was explained to me years ago and it has just a little bit of merit.

The reasoning then was that in the event of a rollover and heavy impact on the roof, with a normal seatbelt you would move to the side reducing the risk of head injury.

With a 4 point it would hold you upright and increase the chances of a broken neck.

Ive seen a lot of cars that have rolled over and none of them have sustained damage that backed up that theory.

I think there are other theories that they use these days. Maybe one of them will provide a plausible reason.

[royalplumss]

.

With a 4 point it would hold you upright and increase the chances of a broken neck.

Ive seen a lot of cars that have rolled over and none of them have sustained damage that backed up that theory.

With a roll cage and harness, your chances of survival increase dramatically in a rollover - even if you have the extra inertia of a helmet wrenching your head around.

There are always scenarios that would invalidate this argument such as the " i wasnt wearing my seatbelt and got thrown out - would have drowned otherwise for sure"

Imperical evidence dictates the fact that racing car drivers wear 4/5 point harnesses......(for a reason)

High lateral support seats will keep you held nice and firmly in your seat without a harness......

The harness stops you snapping the normal ADR (cheap factory) belt, your ribs, pelvis, head and all sorts of things in a roll over.

Sure, you might break your neck in a head-on collision but try it with a normal seat belt.

My brother ended up wedged into the passenger side footwell of a holden panel van when he flipped it with a normal seat belt. Not pretty at all. He died 3 times on the way to hospital but survived the coma.

 

NSW does not allow full cages. At least you can get a half cage if you sacrifice passengers

And you can get ADR compliant harnesses now...and even without a roll cage are still a better proposition than the lap/sash factory crap

 

However, heaven help anyone pulled over by mister plod with any sort of extra safety devices in your car.

You are not considered a citizen concerned for your own well being

You are a Hoon (because you wouldnt need them if you intended to drive carefully, obviously)

 

The point is, anyone who has any sort of powerful car or any sort of modification that even looks like it might be racing/ performance/ 'hoon' related then you are a target for all cops and wowsers.

 

People need to vote with their feet

[Uncle Chop Chop]

Would you be so supportive of a Law that crushes all modified cars ?

You are under no obligation to have your car impounded, auctioned or crushed. Provided you obey the law.

[Uncle Chop Chop]

Cops will say all sorts of things if they have had a bad day. Don't draw attention to yourself and avoid the hassles.